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  1.    #1  
    or is it like when stores run out of touchpads they cant order more because they stopped making them?
  2. #2  
    Palm is dead.

    No more webOS. No new tablets, no new phones.

    That's what HP did.
  3. #3  
    I don't know what will happen with pre 3 but I hope that it arrives to US. Because here we have pre 3's but we do not have touchpads (at least the cheap ones). And there you have touchpads but not pre3.
    The whole ecosystem and TTS and sms sharing will have no point at all.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by theineffablebob View Post
    Palm is dead.

    No more webOS. No new tablets, no new phones.

    That's what HP did.
    Well that is somewhat false...depending on if HP can get Samsung, HTC, etc to make some devices. If HP does then webOS will continue.
    gold5225 and cyberprashant like this.
  5. #5  
    webOS is alive, very much so.
    Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
    clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
    Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

    gold5225 and cyberprashant like this.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by shoichikun808 View Post
    Well that is somewhat false...depending on if HP can get Samsung, HTC, etc to make some devices. If HP does then webOS will continue.
    That's a BIG if.

    Personally, I'm rooting for a mainland Chinese "cellphone" comany to come in and get WebOS for a relative song. Then they can put it on their $150 touchpads and $75 cellphones. Have you ever tried Chinese iPhone "clone" software? It's awful. WebOS is a ready-made ecosystem waiting for affordable hardware...
    Page Plus Cellular - Talk Smart
    Palm M100 > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 755P > Palm Pro > Palm Pre-
  7. #7  
    if they are a Chinese phone company - they wouldn't bother paying for the software - just steal - It's not like HP is going to be chasing them down...
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by shoichikun808 View Post
    Well that is somewhat false...depending on if HP can get Samsung, HTC, etc to make some devices. If HP does then webOS will continue.
    Even if they don't, they have to support and update the newer devices.
    -Travis Antonio
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    -Palm Pre Plus *DEAD*
    -Palm Pre Plus (Mom).

    Never forget to say Thanks, God bless you all.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by shoichikun808 View Post
    Well that is somewhat false...depending on if HP can get Samsung, HTC, etc to make some devices. If HP does then webOS will continue.
    I seriously doubt after the debacle of Palm and HP that another company would even give WebOS a second thought. It wouldn't make sense.
  10. jdale's Avatar
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    #10  
    Someone will absolutely buy WebOS.

    The question is whether they will actually do anything with the OS, or if they will only be interested in the patent portfolio. There is a serious patent war going on currently between smartphone makers.

    Unfortunately for us, the people with the deepest pockets also have the least reason to use another OS: Apple and Google.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by southflguy View Post
    I seriously doubt after the debacle of Palm and HP that another company would even give WebOS a second thought. It wouldn't make sense.
    Palm was on the verge of bankruptcy before 2009; they were unable to advertise webOS the way they would've had to. webOS didn't kill Palm, but it wasn't enough to keep Palm alive either.
    Not a debacle. More like a tragedy: if a more affluent company than Palm had released webOS at the time when Palm did release it, we'd be somewhere else today. Palm didn't attract developers, but not because webOS sucked or because Android had such a huge leg up (they were below 10,000 apps when webOS came on the scene) but because they simply weren't sure whether Palm would be able to survive and whether webOS wouldn't die alongside Palm.

    HP made considerable inroads with webOS in terms of mindshare (just look at how quickly the TouchPad is selling now - even at $100, people wouldn't get it if they had never heard of it or if they thought it sucked) but their hardware was poorly received. Now, as part of a greater scheme to completely divorce their hardware division including PCs and Printers (a decision of questionable sanity, but that's another topic), they have announced that they will also not make any more webOS hardware.
    Not a debacle either if HP announces licensees. If HP doesn't announce any, THAT will be the debacle - webOS in and of itself will be innocent.

    Meanwhile, Android has been popular among OEMs because it's relatively cheap (they only have to pay some licensing fees to third-party companies whose IP has been used in Android), because Google never competed with its OEMs, and because there was no other modern smartphone OS available for licensing. There is WP7, but I wonder whether that has a huge mass appeal because of its UI, which is sleek for sure but feels a bit odd and unwieldy sometimes. I think a lot of other companies are wondering the same thing. Metro UI is nice to look at for a while but after that while, I feel like it gets old. Just my opinion though.

    Having bought Motorola, Google is making it crystal clear that they WILL compete with their OEMs from now on.

    Licensing webOS would give licensees a new OS to diversify their lineup with. If webOS isn't more expensive than Android (and with the exception of internet fans, everybody knows that Android isn't free - OEMs merely don't have to pay Google to use it, which says nothing about other licensing fees), HP has now officially stated that they will not compete with OEMs because they're getting out of the consumer hardware game entirely. webOS 3 still has more apps than Android 3, and while a lot of developers have gone into wait-and-see mode with their Enyo apps following the announcement, they'd all get right back to finishing up the apps that are now on hold once (if) HP announces their OEMs.

    HP's announcement the other day was so hamfisted it was a miracle that the tech blogs didn't immediately write "HP TO COMPLETELY CEASE BUSINESS", but there may yet be some life in webOS.
    BlueTuna and JED-WEB-OS like this.
  12. #12  
    It would appear that there are at least half a million TouchPads sold this past couple of days. If HP did, in fact, make 2 million, they will likely sell them all at this price. That is a ton of webOS tablet users, and quickly puts them up there with Android on tablets. With that, I seriously doubt anything is happening to webOS. I think it is pretty safe to assume that Samsung and HTC are very much looking to license webOS thanks to the whole legal mess with Android and the recent Google/Moto deal.

    I bet this whole mess will, oddly enough, kick start webOS. Almost seems New Coke-ish. Though I doubt Leo is smart enough to come up with this as an actual operating plan.
  13. samab's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdale View Post
    Someone will absolutely buy WebOS.

    The question is whether they will actually do anything with the OS, or if they will only be interested in the patent portfolio. There is a serious patent war going on currently between smartphone makers.

    Unfortunately for us, the people with the deepest pockets also have the least reason to use another OS: Apple and Google.
    The source code for webos is a totally different asset from Palm's patents.
  14. samab's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    I think it is pretty safe to assume that Samsung and HTC are very much looking to license webOS thanks to the whole legal mess with Android and the recent Google/Moto deal.
    Licensing webos doesn't provide any sort of general patent protection. All it does is provide patent protection to licensees on webos devices. But Samsung and HTC would continue to sell Android stuff --- and Microsoft would continue to sue them for patent licensing fee.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    I think it is pretty safe to assume that Samsung and HTC are very much looking to license webOS thanks to the whole legal mess with Android and the recent Google/Moto deal.
    And don't forget that webOS may, in fact, turn out to be much cheaper for OEMs to license than Android (which, if you were as malicious towards Android as a lot of people on here are towards webOS, you'd call a failed platform on Tablets because of its slow growth, low app numbers, and utter lack of iconic hardware that non-techies would know by name) because even though OEMs don't pay Google, they have to pay patent fees to other companies Google "borrowed" stuff from.

    Those patent fees can be as low as $15 if only Microsoft is collecting any but can also be as high as $60.
    That is per unit, of course.

    The only other serious platform that sells licenses is WP7, which costs $15 a pop. I think HP could ask rather more and still find interested OEMs as webOS is a more versatile platform than WP7, but this isn't just about webOS, it's also about HP.

    Some people think OEMs are turned off by HP not making their own hardware anymore; I'd say the opposite is the case and they're turned ON by that specific fact - HP bows out of the hardware game just as Google is entering it. Ever thought about whether a smallish company that builds phones, like HTC, would really like to go heads-up with Google in any given market?
    Several smaller webOS OEMs would compete with one another but wouldn't be forced to additionally compete with the juggernaut parent company. That's a plus.

    Of course, there are legitimate reasons that could turn OEMs off of webOS. For one, HP's strategic leadership is... let's say "severely lacking" from a layman's point of view.

    Big companies always have their little birdies everywhere, though, and they're better informed about what's going on than you, my dear anonymous internet user, are - believe it or not. If the OEMs' birdies are saying that things did in fact go the way they seem to have gone from our uninitiated perspective, and that HP seriously made a world-changing decision like spinning or selling off their consumer hardware segment overnight without so much as telling their own upper management, they may decide that the risk of going into bed with HP is too great: not because of webOS, but because it's just imprudent to enter any business agreements with entities that are non compos mentis and may turn around and do completely unexpected things at any time during the day or night.

    This could turn an OEM right off so they'd turn around, walk away and never look back, but it could also compel the OEM to try and negotiate a contract pressurizing HP into maintaining certain goals and standards (i.e. putting into the contract that HP must commit not to shut down their webOS software division for a certain number of years, and to present a certain number of major updates to webOS within that timeframe). If HP doesn't want to sign such a contract, the OEM will know for a fact that HP isn't serious and that, as they say, will have been that.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    But Samsung and HTC would continue to sell Android stuff --- and Microsoft would continue to sue them for patent licensing fee.
    Are you sure they will? What happens if Apple gets injunctions against them (HTC seems to be just about there)? The whole, and ONLY, reason I think webOS is a good candidate for these companies is because I don't believe Android will be legally available once Apple is done suing everyone. So far Google's partners have been losing, including the company they are now buying. Unless the legal landscape changes, the courts may be the ones to unseat Android. With Moto getting the inside scoop on releases (and they will), other companies may not be nearly as interested in competing in the Android market.
    GodShapedHole likes this.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    The source code for webos is a totally different asset from Palm's patents.
    Palm probably had webOS-related patents as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    Are you sure they will? What happens if Apple gets injunctions against them (HTC seems to be just about there)? The whole, and ONLY, reason I think webOS is a good candidate for these companies is because I don't believe Android will be legally available once Apple is done suing everyone. So far Google's partners have been losing, including the company they are now buying. Unless the legal landscape changes, the courts may be the ones to unseat Android. With Moto getting the inside scoop on releases (and they will), other companies may not be nearly as interested in competing in the Android market.
    Good points.

    It bears repeating that in all of the patent wars going on, Palm/HP/webOS is the only platform that has never been touched or even looked at weirdly. It's mostly irrelevant whether this is due to HP possessing Palm's nuclear patent arsenal or because webOS simply does not infringe on (m)any patents; the truth is likely somewhere in between. Licensing webOS could be cheaper than licensing Android and also save the licensee some annual lawyering costs, not to mention headache.

    It bears saying that we don't know whether any of this will come to pass and whether webOS will in fact be licensed. But it's not as unlikely or illogical as some seem to think. In fact, it could well be a win-win situation for everybody - HP can get out of hardware and concentrate on software like they want; licensees are getting a cool and litigation-proof OS for cheap; consumers are getting those Samsung or HTC devices they crave with the webOS they love.
  18. samab's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    Are you sure they will? What happens if Apple gets injunctions against them (HTC seems to be just about there)? The whole, and ONLY, reason I think webOS is a good candidate for these companies is because I don't believe Android will be legally available once Apple is done suing everyone. So far Google's partners have been losing, including the company they are now buying. Unless the legal landscape changes, the courts may be the ones to unseat Android. With Moto getting the inside scoop on releases (and they will), other companies may not be nearly as interested in competing in the Android market.
    Palm may have PDA/smartphone patents, but they don't have radio patents. And HP didn't participate in the consortium (everyone except Google) on the Nortel patents.

    It is now a war of attrition. Google has 2 co-founders that are richer than god and are willing to lose billions of dollars for the next 10 years if they are forced to. Same thing for Bill Gates. Apple now has the cash to lose money for the next 10 years (if necessary).

    RIM has 2 co-founders who are the largest shareholders of RIM and are willing to drive their baby into the ground. Nobody can buy them out because they will wave the Canadian flag and lobby the Canadian government to stop any company from eating them up. It may not be the best thing for ordinary RIMM shareholders. But if you are a blackberry user, you know that this company will fight till the last breath.

    WebOS can't compete will Android and Windows Mobile in licensing because Google and Microsoft are willing to lose billions of dollars in the next 10 years.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Google and Microsoft are willing to lose billions of dollars in the next 10 years.
    That's not good business, and if they were in fact going to act like that, I predict a hearty shareholder reaction to it. If they do think they can do what you're saying, they won't be able to do it for long. Think the economy is bad today? It's on a downward spiral as we speak. America is AA+. The Eurozone is crumbling and France and Germany, as the EU's brain and engine (in no particular order), are utterly unable to fix anything.

    I think as people start becoming more frugal because of the economy, you'll see the tech bubble that has been blowing up this past decade burst. People will suddenly realize that Apple isn't so rich because they're selling so many iPhones and iPads, but because a lot of people are buying Apple stock, because a lot of people are buying Apple stock, because a lot of people are buying Apple stock, because they're selling so many iPhones and iPads. They do make ridiculous profits, but a) people won't be willing to pay twice the price for lifestyle for much longer and b) the vast majority of their incredible newlyfound wealth isn't a result of real-world profits but a result of stock market dynamics: numbers being pushed left and right on a computer screen and getting bigger just because they're pushed... just the thing that led to the 2008 crisis. A bubble.
    Look at how much Facebook is worth. Look at how much Skype cost. Look at how much LinkedIn cost, for crying out loud.

    Value-on-paper and value-in-real-life can diverge for quite some time, but at some point, reality inevitably catches up with everybody.

    I suspect that the powers that be at Google and Microsoft realize all this, and will therefore NOT act in the irresponsible ways of spending billions without even so much as a clear financial goal to be attained that you describe.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Palm may have PDA/smartphone patents, but they don't have radio patents. And HP didn't participate in the consortium (everyone except Google) on the Nortel patents.

    It is now a war of attrition. Google has 2 co-founders that are richer than god and are willing to lose billions of dollars for the next 10 years if they are forced to. Same thing for Bill Gates. Apple now has the cash to lose money for the next 10 years (if necessary).

    RIM has 2 co-founders who are the largest shareholders of RIM and are willing to drive their baby into the ground. Nobody can buy them out because they will wave the Canadian flag and lobby the Canadian government to stop any company from eating them up. It may not be the best thing for ordinary RIMM shareholders. But if you are a blackberry user, you know that this company will fight till the last breath.

    WebOS can't compete will Android and Windows Mobile in licensing because Google and Microsoft are willing to lose billions of dollars in the next 10 years.
    Uh...it's not about losing money. It's about a Federal judge telling your company that you can't import your product into the United States. HTC has already had a preliminary ruling against them in this fashion. If they lose, their product will be barred. Instead of going straight after Google, Apple is picking off the Android phone makers, one at a time. HTC is the closest to an Android product ban. No amount of money will make a ruling against your IP go away. As I have also mentioned, Moto Mobility's patents haven't been holding up either.

    If I do recall, I believe Palm's already had some key patents upheld in the past, but I'm not sure. Nobody wants to take on the key smartphone patent because, if they lose, they'll be out big bucks to the current holder, and could be required to pay hefty licensing fees for every phone made from here on out.
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