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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Ah, yes, forgot the dash.

    I don't think they will be creating a brand-new audio system. These inductive coupling systems, from the device's point of view, look pretty much like a serial cable. The device doesn't care that the data is traveling over an air gap, just like it doesn't care that the power it is receiving is being transmitted over an air gap. They aren't going to have to invent new codecs and whatnot to get the data to move through the inductive coupling. As long as the data does not exceed the bandwidth of the connection, they can use whatever they want, just as if it were a physical wired connection. It could be that the phone will send the audio stream to the Audio Touchstone via raw binary data, with a DAC (Beats branded, perhaps?) in the Touchstone deciphering it and spitting it out the 3.5mm jack.

    I think the reason for avoiding a Bluetooth connection is to enhance the user experience. If the stream is going straight through the inductive coupling, then getting audio to come out the Touchstone requires no software intervention. It would work as simply as plugging a set of headphones into the headphone jack.

    And perhaps the biggest reason to assume that the stream will not be via A2DP is that, if the phone sees that it is attached to an A2DP device, it might think that it is attached to an A2DP headset. What would happen if you were in the middle of a call using a stereo Bluetooth headset on your Pre 3, and then you set it on the Audio Touchstone?
    You're still not getting my point.

    So far, the Pre3 is the only device we see with this new 6 MHz subsystem. Why would Palm go the inductive system route, when they can use A2DP and maintain compatibility? This would render the dock to be compatible with the Pre3 only. I know my Veer definitely doesn't have this. That's what I meant by "inventing a new system". Pre, Pixi, Veer, all have A2DP already, so why create this "new system" so it only works with the Pre3?

    As for the user experience, this is no different than Touch-to-Share. You dock the first time to initiate and pair, and subsequently initiate the connection only. This mirrors the Touch-to-Share with the TouchPad.

    And your final point about the headset, Headset and A2DP are actually different profiles, and webOS can definitely distinguish the two. If the dock is A2DP only, then it would play music only and everything else goes back to the phone or headset. Alternatively, the device can be selected during the call, as with the current system.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Amohazab View Post
    Would still prefer the BT route though. as it involves less additional modules and programming and more compatability and probably cheaper overall.
    I'm not so sure it would be cheaper, or that it would require less programming.

    If it is as you are saying, then the 6 MHz band is there simply to trigger a BT connection between the Audio Touchstone and the phone. Which means the phone has to be programmed to respond to the trigger and take action accordingly. This would include turning on the BT radio and pairing with the Audio Touchstone.

    However, if it is as I am thinking and the audio is sent via the inductive coupling over the 6 MHz band, then all the phone would need to do is exactly what it does if you were to physically plug a set of headphones into it.

    In fact, it may be that the inductive audio system on the phone is coupled directly with the headphone jack on the phone, so that they appear as the same device from the phone's point of view. In other words, the phone would not know--nor would it need to know--the difference between plugging in a set of headphones into its headphone jack and setting it on the Audio Touchstone. Either way, it would perform the same action.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    You're still not getting my point.

    So far, the Pre3 is the only device we see with this new 6 MHz subsystem. Why would Palm go the inductive system route, when they can use A2DP and maintain compatibility? This would render the dock to be compatible with the Pre3 only. I know my Veer definitely doesn't have this. That's what I meant by "inventing a new system". Pre, Pixi, Veer, all have A2DP already, so why create this "new system" so it only works with the Pre3?
    Ah. So you'd be jealous if the Pre 3 had it, but your Veer does not? Who knows, we may be seeing a Class II permissive change for the Veer as well. Or perhaps HP thinks this is a premium feature and wants to include it only on their flagship phone, the Pre 3. That might be why we are only seeing mention of the Audio Touchstone in the filings for the Pre 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    And your final point about the headset, Headset and A2DP are actually different profiles, and webOS can definitely distinguish the two. If the dock is A2DP only, then it would play music only and everything else goes back to the phone or headset. Alternatively, the device can be selected during the call, as with the current system.
    Ah but there are A2DP stereo headsets. Could a phone distinguish between a set of speakers (no microphone) and an A2DP headset? Or do they appear as the same? Is it possible to have a phone paired to both a set of A2DP speakers and an A2DP headset at the same time? I'll admit my lack of expertise on BT headsets, so I am genuinely asking these questions.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  4. #44  
    Not necessarily jealous, but more so for a broader appeal if it supports more devices. Doesn't make sense anyways since Pre3 is geared to be a business phone, and I don't see how that's a business feature.

    As for the Bluetooth issue, as I mentioned before, it will specifically be different profiles.

    Bluetooth profile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Bluetooth headphones, especially the more advanced models, often come with a microphone and support for the Headset (HSP), Hands-Free (HFP) and Audio/Video Remote Control (AVRCP) profiles.
    A2DP alone does NOT support a microphone. I'm pretty sure you want a microphone for a phone call.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    I'm not so sure it would be cheaper, or that it would require less programming.

    If it is as you are saying, then the 6 MHz band is there simply to trigger a BT connection between the Audio Touchstone and the phone. Which means the phone has to be programmed to respond to the trigger and take action accordingly. This would include turning on the BT radio and pairing with the Audio Touchstone.
    Exactly as it happens with the TTS. The additional programming is that the trigger will initiate music rather than URL sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    However, if it is as I am thinking and the audio is sent via the inductive coupling over the 6 MHz band, then all the phone would need to do is exactly what it does if you were to physically plug a set of headphones into it.

    In fact, it may be that the inductive audio system on the phone is coupled directly with the headphone jack on the phone, so that they appear as the same device from the phone's point of view. In other words, the phone would not know--nor would it need to know--the difference between plugging in a set of headphones into its headphone jack and setting it on the Audio Touchstone. Either way, it would perform the same action.
    Well this also seems like a workable idea. If from the phone's point of view the headphone jack and the dock output are one and the same then I agree, there is less complication involved in your scenario than one with a BT module inside the audio dock.

    So it it boils down to what compromise HP has made. Broader compatibility with other WebOS phones (and also partial compatibility with any audio player having BT), but at the expense of paying for a BT module inside the dock, or the simple but elegant solution (which requires shielding) but less compatibility with legacy devices including the Veer.
  6.    #46  
    Well now that that's all been fleshed out, I guess we just wait and see. I still think the lack of a BT frequency listed in the FCC's description of the Audio Touchstone points towards the audio going over the 6 MHz band, but if it is via BT, it certainly wouldn't be the first time FCC documents were misleading.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  7. #47  
    For what it's worth, I hope that it's NOT Bluetooth, and that it's a forward thinking solution that has a wide enough frequency range to have enough bandwidth available so that we can eventually get Video out as well.

    I just don't think it's likely.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    Hmm.. I wonder why 6 MHz.

    It would be way more compatible if they just went with A2DP. Then it'll be compatible with all phones.
    because the touchstone doesn't work with other phones at all => no need to support their audio...
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    For what it's worth, I hope that it's NOT Bluetooth, and that it's a forward thinking solution that has a wide enough frequency range to have enough bandwidth available so that we can eventually get Video out as well.

    I just don't think it's likely.
    6 MHz is NOWHERE near enough for video.

    FWIW an CAT-5 Ethernet cable is 350MHz.
  10.    #50  
    I think it's highly unlikely that an inductive connection would have enough bandwidth to support video.

    ETA: What he said. ↑
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by rot View Post
    because the touchstone doesn't work with other phones at all => no need to support their audio...
    By other phones I mean Pre, Pixi, Veer...
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    6 MHz is NOWHERE near enough for video.
    That was my initial thought too, and then I started overanalyzing it to delude myself into thinking maybe it'd be possible.
  13. mehigh's Avatar
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    #53  
    I c a lot of talk about the current phones not being supported... Honestly so what? I'm not a big tecchie, but I really don't care about current devices (im rocking a Sprint Pre btw). It's all about the future. I bet the Veer 2 and/or future devices will have this capability.
  14.    #54  
    Frankly I would not be surprised to see a Class II permissive change for the Veer show up and add this same functionality to the Veer. I think it really depends on who thought up the idea of the audio Touchstone, HP or Palm, and who did most of the work on the Veer, HP or Palm. If the Veer is mostly a result of Palm's efforts (no idea on that) and the Audio Touchstone is HP's baby (seems likely due to their relationship with Beats) then maybe not. But if HP did most of the work on the Veer...
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by TopTongueBarry View Post
    Me thinks the 3.5" jack on the Touchstone audio dock is for audio input from other devices. similar to the wired connectivity many fruitphone docks have built in.
    Input? I think you are thinking of iPhone docks with built-in speakers, that also have 3.5mm jacks so that you can hook non-Apple stuff up to them. From what the diagram on the FCC report shows, the Audio Touchstone is designed to hook up to external speakers or headphones and does not include speakers of its own. Therefore there would be no point to an input.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Input? I think you are thinking of iPhone docks with built-in speakers, that also have 3.5mm jacks so that you can hook non-Apple stuff up to them. From what the diagram on the FCC report shows, the Audio Touchstone is designed to hook up to external speakers or headphones and does not include speakers of its own. Therefore there would be no point to an input.
    I deleted my post once I found out I was incorrect.
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  17. #57  
    Yes, just like the standard Apple iPhone/iPod dock which has audio out, but much much cooler.
  18. kulf's Avatar
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    #58  
    Nice. But as much as I hate to say it: Apple is setting the standard again with airplay. Look how many HiFi kits have it integrated already... Sick.
  19. #59  
    HP accessories are more creative and ahead of their time than the devices the use them
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Frankly I would not be surprised to see a Class II permissive change for the Veer show up and add this same functionality to the Veer. I think it really depends on who thought up the idea of the audio Touchstone, HP or Palm, and who did most of the work on the Veer, HP or Palm. If the Veer is mostly a result of Palm's efforts (no idea on that) and the Audio Touchstone is HP's baby (seems likely due to their relationship with Beats) then maybe not. But if HP did most of the work on the Veer...
    Actually both Veer and Pre3 were around the same era. No way HP had major design input in the devices all the way back in November 2010.

    Veer is Broadway and Pre3 is Manta Ray.

    New webOS device codenames discovered in webOS 2.0 Doctor? | The #1 HP webOS, TouchPad, Pre, and Veer Community | PreCentral.net

    A6 is the battery and Touch-to-Share controller, unless the 6 MHz system is also in A6 but disabled, I can't see how they can do it without hardware changes.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
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