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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Americans often cannot imagine anything not being for the US. We can't even grasp the fact that people from South America are Americans too.
    As someone who gets this a lot when I travel to South America, I often point out that citizens are usually referred to by a derivative of their country name & the U.S.A. is the only country in the Americas that actually has the word "America" in its name, Declaration of Independence, & Constitution. So it's our right to call ourselves Americans.

    Besides, calling ourselves "United Statians" just doesn't work... Lol
  2. #42  
    I must say I've never heard any Canadian's refer to themselves as American.
    If "If's" and "But's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!


  3. airotkiv's Avatar
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    #43  
    I am having fun reading you here in Europe, where people like their phones sim-free, 'cause they often switch carrier (it is easier on GSM I suppose), and prefer portrait keyboards to landscape ones.

    This is why I will get the pre3 and no Android stuff. And because my Treo 680 begins to show signs of age... ;-)
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by airotkiv View Post
    I am having fun reading you here in Europe, where people like their phones sim-free, 'cause they often switch carrier (it is easier on GSM I suppose)...
    I think we are under wrong impression that Euro customers are SIM-free enthusiast. Probably majority of phone users in Europe also are buying phones trough carriers, but they are not active on forums wasting their time discussing some irrelevant stuff like we do
  5. airotkiv's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    I think we are under wrong impression that Euro customers are SIM-free enthusiast. Probably majority of phone users in Europe also are buying phones trough carriers, but they are not active on forums wasting their time discussing some irrelevant stuff like we do
    Actually, with GSM you get the carrier lock in your SIM card, and if you are clever enough to get an unlocked phone (or get the branded one unlocked later), in case a better tariff is in, you just throw away the former one and put in the next. No, it is not THAT simple, but almost all the people I know uses originally or later unlocked phones, several of them have more than one SIMs.

    On second thought, wait. You may be right with smartphone jockeys who buy their phones by monthly instalments. Still, bigger shop chains offer simfree Android phones off the self on instalments.
  6. cgk
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    I think we are under wrong impression that Euro customers are SIM-free enthusiast. Probably majority of phone users in Europe also are buying phones trough carriers, but they are not active on forums wasting their time discussing some irrelevant stuff like we do
    Yep, you get a misleading picture from tech forums, the majority of consumers in the EU buy phones on contract and they follow the same logic as american consumers:

    1) How much do I want to pay?
    2) What sort of phone does that allow me to have?
    3) how many minutes and texts does that allow me?

    That's why, if a phone (like the Pre 2) is not offered by carriers or their dealer networks, it's invisible to everyone but tech enthusiasts. To be a success, the Pre3 has to be on at least one carrier.
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  7. airotkiv's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Yep, you get a misleading picture from tech forums, the majority of consumers in the EU buy phones on contract and they follow the same logic as american consumers:

    1) How much do I want to pay?
    2) What sort of phone does that allow me to have?
    3) how many minutes and texts does that allow me?

    That's why, if a phone (like the Pre 2) is not offered by carriers or their dealer networks, it's invisible to everyone but tech enthusiasts. To be a success, the Pre3 has to be on at least one carrier.

    Let me rephrase it, I don't want no misunderstanding. Buying on carriers is definitely cheaper, and many people choose this. Still - and it is only my viewpoint - it is not a catastrophe if a carrier does not supply the given phone, because you get the sim, you get the unlocked phone and there you go. There is life outside Peace I will soon be a fellow Pre-owner!
  8. cgk
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    #48  
    Still - and it is only my viewpoint - it is not a catastrophe if a carrier does not supply the given phone, because you get the sim, you get the unlocked phone and there you go.
    I buy all my phones unlocked so I support you in that habit but sadly it *is* a catastrophe for trying to build market share for an organisation if there phones are not offered by carriers.
  9. airotkiv's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I buy all my phones unlocked so I support you in that habit but sadly it *is* a catastrophe for trying to build market share for an organisation if there phones are not offered by carriers.
    You do have the point, after all.
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    I think we are under wrong impression that Euro customers are SIM-free enthusiast.
    There's no such thing as an Euro customer, I'd say. British customers are quite different from French costumers, Spanish customers, German customers... Here in Germany majority of mobile phones isn't sold via operators any more, tech discount markets and operator-independent dealers attract customers with flexible offers: whatever phone you like with whatever operator SIM you like.
    That doesn't mean you don't get your phone subsidized; operators pay quite a premium for each contract an independent shop sells, and the shop can bundle contracts with subsidized phones. Significantly subsidized. The HP Veer in this shop for example is sold for 278 EUR w/o contract, but you may choose a bundle with an all-phonecalls-all-internetaccess-all-sms-flat contract with the Veer for zero bucks and a 350 EUR cashback if you don't mind paying 90 EUR per month for the next two years. And that's by no means the cheapest shop...
    What's true for German customers at least: Most people still prefer those subsidezed offers which in fact aren't subsidized but simple installments. I for my part will buy the Pre 3 w/o contract and subsidies and use it with a no-frills SIM card. If only the Pre 3 would be available...
    Regards,
    joschi
  11. #51  
    As silly as the "the summer" assumption not necessarily being 2011 I can SO see an interview with Ruby this fall - "I chose my words carefully. I said THE summer, not summer 2011".

    Or Leo saying "we're waiting until the Pre3 is PERFECT before releasing it"
  12. #52  
    We can all b***h and moan about this situation but nothing will change. I personally wont say DOA but certain aspects of the phone are already a little out of date compared to others. The amount of time I have been waiting for the phone does leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Now that big name phones are going to be released around the same time my choice will be tough. Currently I am using a VZW Pre+ with UK and I am struggling to use it productively. My future will either have a SGSII, iPhone5/4G, or Pre3. Since they are all projected to be released around the same time they are competing to be my future phone. This will be a REALLY tough decision. We are all just tired of waiting. 1-3 months is doable... but 6 months is crazy.
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    #53  
    I think for the size that HP is, they have done quite well so far launching the pad and the veer, and keeping up support for the palm phones aswell - so I am waiting eagerly for the Pre3 to be released and sure will buy without carrier contract.... BUT I hope that the app catalog will also be available this year for swiss customers too.
    Pre3/TP 16GB, Palm Pre Plus, Palm Pixi Plus, Palm Pre, Centro, Treo 680, Treo 650, Palm T3, Treo 270
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    #54  
    Pre3, DE, UMTS, QWERTZ, UNLOCKED-Deutsche Lokalisierung - HP Store Deutschland

    just found this on the german hp page... things are coming closer
    Pre3/TP 16GB, Palm Pre Plus, Palm Pixi Plus, Palm Pre, Centro, Treo 680, Treo 650, Palm T3, Treo 270
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimra View Post
    I think for the size that HP is, they have done quite well so far launching the pad and the veer, and keeping up support for the palm phones aswell - so I am waiting eagerly for the Pre3 to be released and sure will buy without carrier contract.... BUT I hope that the app catalog will also be available this year for swiss customers too.
    I had to call for support yesterday, and they were not bad. It was outsourced (India?), but it was a better experience than I have had calling for laptop support.
  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    I will gladly do all of the above when you somehow manage to define that "expected" translates into the units will be on the shelves and available to be purchased.

    Might I remind you that is was "expected" that webOS 2.x would run on our Pre- phones, it was "expected" that their would be document editing capabilities on the TouchPad when it was released.....

    Don't count your chickens before they hatch.
    This gentleman's Pre3 is in the mail. Mid-August is even less than two months from the TouchPad launch, isn't it?

    Would you agree that the pace at which the Veer, TouchPad and Pre3 have been released matches the pace that HP have stated they would release devices at?

    Would you agree that mid-august is summer?

    So what was the huge hullaballoo about again? HP missing deadlines, HP being incapable of delivering stuff when they said they would?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    LOL! Ok, I'll start making my list and checking it twice ..... darn, there I go again. Now Santa is going to be ticked at me.

    Nah, there isn't any big thing -- even if they do make it in Germany in the next couple of weeks, the only thing I have is that when they said "release in summer", and they were in San Francisco when they said it, I "expected" (sorry couldn't resist that one) that they meant U.S. launch (like they did for the Veer and the TouchPad).

    What is your opinion as to why they are not releasing (or at least no announcement yet) the Pre 3 in the U.S. yet?
    I realize that everybody's world-view is always a bit centered around where they live, and that if you're from a place with a long-standing tradition of deep national pride and patriotism, you may feel slighted if your country is not, in fact, #1 at getting stuff.
    I'm not entirely sure whether to feel sorry or smug.

    As to why they're not releasing the Pre3 in the US - good question. If I'm to hazard a guess, I'd say they're giving Europe unlocked phones now and will, over the course of the next few weeks, start launching them on Carriers across markets, including the US.

    Would you agree that holding back a carrier announcement until very, VERY shortly before the carrier will ship the product and show it in stures would meet the popular demand that HP not leave so much time between announcements and availability?

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    If only webos runs as fast on the same cpu clock, sigh.

    Is this a none US only discussion? Because all of these phones will be $200.

    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
    Go check out a Veer. Then check out a HTC G2 (Desire Z?). Start a few apps. Scroll around. Perhaps run a game.
    The Veer is quicker and smoother, and they both have the exact same processor.

    Also, you're comparing apples to oranges by comparing off-contract and on-contract prices. We also have contracts in Europe, and since the Pre3 is €350, it should run just about €150 or less on contract... but on-contract prices can go way higher than €200.
    Are ALL phones $200 on-contract in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Yep, you get a misleading picture from tech forums, the majority of consumers in the EU buy phones on contract and they follow the same logic as american consumers:

    1) How much do I want to pay?
    2) What sort of phone does that allow me to have?
    3) how many minutes and texts does that allow me?

    That's why, if a phone (like the Pre 2) is not offered by carriers or their dealer networks, it's invisible to everyone but tech enthusiasts. To be a success, the Pre3 has to be on at least one carrier.
    Quite right, the vast majority does go through carriers, and Germans at least (as joschi says - generalizing Europeans doesn't work because you have discrete cultures and mindsets in different countries. Europe isn't homogenous like the US at all) for the most part follow the pattern you describe.
    But on the whole, most don't have any loyalty or attachment to carriers whatsoever; people stay on a carrier they're already on if their price continues to be right because they're too lazy to fix what's not broken. The moment they find something about another carrier that they like better, they're outta there.
    I'm given to think that Americans are much more tightly connected, as it were, to their cellphone carriers than Germans are. (Again, I can't speak for the rest of Europe.)

    On that note, I understand that Orange is carrying the Pre3 in the UK and I believe there has been word some time ago that T-Mobile would be carrying it in Germany.
    Right now we're seeing the 'soft launch' for the Pre3 as you can buy them off-contract from various sources.

    I believe we'll see a harder launch for it in a week or two, very similar to how they handled the TouchPad. A pattern emerges.
    I doubt that it'll be a super-hard push though because as much as some people would like to believe that the Pre3 is a hero device, it is not. It's an excellent business-class device with some good entertainment built in. It's a 5-series BMW. It's just not a Ferrari. I realize that a lot of people want Ferrari phones if the difference between a 5-series and a Ferrari isn't €200.000 but €200, and I assume that HP knows as much.

    We will see what HP will give us in two months.

    But meanwhile, the Pre3 at €350 off contract (which would make it like €100-150 on contract at launch) is a very good value proposition for people who don't mind having a V12, err, dual-core 2.0ghz CPU or ceramic brakes, err 3D screen.
    Last edited by GodShapedHole; 08/16/2011 at 06:16 PM.
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  17. #57  
    GodShapedHole,

    I'm with you on this - The negative posts around here really do need to stop!

    It makes me sick to read this stuff coming from a community that was originally based on supporting such a great operating system!

    TTB
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by TopTongueBarry View Post
    GodShapedHole,

    I'm with you on this - The negative posts around here really do need to stop!

    It makes me sick to read this stuff coming from a community that was originally based on supporting such a great operating system!

    TTB
    I've never known a forum like it. I wonder how many people leave p/c because of it. :'(
    Pilot 5000 > Pre > Pre2 > Pre3 > Galaxy Nexus
    TouchPad > Galaxy Tab 8.9
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMist View Post
    I've never known a forum like it. I wonder how many people leave p/c because of it. :'(
    Yeah, that's probably why they leave. Not the total lack of hardware and developments with the OS.
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    #60  
    People need to understand that in this age of information being so widely available, silence by companies becomes less acceptable. Game companies that sell $60 computer games are more open about the status of product development than cell phone manufacturers who sell $600 phones($200 with contract).

    All of the complaints you see around here are caused by that feeling that information has not been flowing about what SHOULD be the BIG product, the Pre 3, and the niche products in the Veer and Touchpad SHOULD have taken a back seat. All HP had to do to keep the complaints to a minimum would have been to just say if there were any delays, or why the Pre 3 has taken this long to launch, even in vague terms.
    kenhiraihnl and Tikkanen like this.
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