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  1. srb151's Avatar
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       #1  
    Just thought this was an interesting take from the higher ups at HP.....

    "Sprint cancels RIM PlayBook, RIM looks bad," Community and Developer Marketing head at HP Palm John Kneeland opined in a Friday tweet. "And THAT, kids, is why you don't pre-announce carrier partnerships."

    Two questions come to mind with this...

    1) Does that mean that no U.S. carrier has committed to the Pre 3 yet?

    2) Is it really that much better for the company to build and certify the phone
    and have no one pick it up because you haven't announced it?

    I really don't see a whole lot of difference between the carrier changing it's mind about
    a phone vs. being told they don't want it in the first place.

    Is VZW getting this phone or not? Doesn't seem so, as much as I'd like one.
    rkguy likes this.
  2. #2  
    it means you don't annouce until you have a firm launch date that neither party caan change.
  3. #3  
    I expect verizon to get it after at&t has been selling them for a few months.
    shadavis08 likes this.
  4. #4  
    It does suggest that HP have a clear PRPRPR $policy$ $of$ '$don$'$t$ $tell$ $unless$ $the$ $deal$ $is$ $done$ $and$ $the$ $stock$ $is$ $in$ $the$ $shops$'- $in$ $order$ $to$ $avoid$ $this$ $kind$ $of$ $thing$; $rather$ $than$ $they$ $just$ $don$'$t$ $have$ $any$ $idea$ $or$ $plan$ $or$ $just$ $can$'$t$ $be$ $bothered$ $to$ $do$ $press$ $releases$.

    Whether that is a good thing or not is open to debate I suppose.
  5. #5  
    I hope Mr Kneeland isn't working in a big glass tower when he lobs those tweet bricks!
    AZ8 likes this.
  6. #6  
    So why did hp announce the pre2 was coming to verizon back in october 2010, and state the touchpad is coming to AT&T?

    Seems like hp's higher ups are on different pages.

    By the way I started a similar thread the other day
  7. #7  
    It also suggests that Leo Apotheker wasn't lying when he said that HP's plan for the future is to announce stuff when it becomes available. He was just talking about the future and not the present when he said it back in January or February.

    They HAD to lay out their plans for the future because they wanted to have apps available when the TouchPad starts (as opposed to waiting around until it becomes available and launching it with absolutely zero apps whatsoever) which seems to have worked considering that the TouchPad has many more apps than Honeycomb does - so they HAD to give a broad webOS announcement covering phones and tablets in order to show people that HP doesn't plan on abandoning webOS anytime soon, and the plan worked.

    If HP hadn't done the Think Beyond announcement, people would have believed webOS to be fully done for, which would have meant that webOS would trully have been fully done for.
    But since they did so the Think Beyond event and showed people, especially developers, that webOS is still alive and kicking, developers retained some interest - and thanks to that, webOS is still alive and kicking.

    I like how people are simultaneously berating HP for announcing stuff too early (Pre3 shouldn't have been announced in February now it will seem old!) AND for announcing stuff too late (Pre3 carrier should've been announced already!).

    HP had to announce the new webOS stuff as early as they could so that people know that webOS isn't dead. Now that that's out of the way, don't expect HP to talk about ANY future devices or services more than a few weeks before it reaches stores. In fact, I'd expect HP to maintain the course they're going with the Pre3 (and, before, with the TouchPad and Veer): not announce a product's carriers or concrete availability date until very shortly before the product is supposed to become available.

    Looking forward to the debates we'll have in a few months if I turn out to be right: "how big a mistake was it to not announce the Myte earlier? HP could have built up buzz but by deciding to release it only a week after the announcement, it was DOA in the water! If they had announced it a few months back, people would have held off buying an iPhone 5 but now everybody has one of those and nobody is left to buy the Myte!"
  8. ijip's Avatar
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    #8  
    its not liked the cancelled the playbook for sprint.

    rimm has to make a decision about where to focus its resources (look at stock price) they looked at the WiMAX market and guess what, not even sprint is going to continue support it. So y waist resources there.

    this was more to do with rim cost cutting, than with sprint not liking playbook numbers.
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  9. srb151's Avatar
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       #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    I like how people are simultaneously berating HP for announcing stuff too early (Pre3 shouldn't have been announced in February now it will seem old!) AND for announcing stuff too late (Pre3 carrier should've been announced already!).

    HP had to announce the new webOS stuff as early as they could so that people know that webOS isn't dead. Now that that's out of the way, don't expect HP to talk about ANY future devices or services more than a few weeks before it reaches stores. In fact, I'd expect HP to maintain the course they're going with the Pre3 (and, before, with the TouchPad and Veer): not announce a product's carriers or concrete availability date until very shortly before the product is supposed to become available.

    Looking forward to the debates we'll have in a few months if I turn out to be right: "how big a mistake was it to not announce the Myte earlier? HP could have built up buzz but by deciding to release it only a week after the announcement, it was DOA in the water! If they had announced it a few months back, people would have held off buying an iPhone 5 but now everybody has one of those and nobody is left to buy the Myte!"
    I think you somewhat missed my point. I'm not arguing they should talk about it
    before their ready, nor am I complaining that they announced the products in Feb.

    However, I don't think there's any positive spin to the fact that it takes HP 7 months
    to push out a phone, be it carrier, software, or hardware issues preventing its
    release. And from their own mouths, they have nothing to release yet relating to
    carriers.

    It's good not to announce something until it's a certainty. The problem is that it's
    not a certainty at this point, regardless of the reasons.

    As you said, no announcement until a few weeks before release, that puts us at mid
    Sept. if they announce tomorrow, and I doubt we'll hear anything tomorrow. (I could
    be wrong...)
  10. redmist's Avatar
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    #10  
    Soft release next week. Actual release next month.
    Pilot 5000 > Pre > Pre2 > Pre3 > Galaxy Nexus
    TouchPad > Galaxy Tab 8.9
    Pillefuss likes this.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by srb151 View Post
    However, I don't think there's any positive spin to the fact that it takes HP 7 months
    to push out a phone, be it carrier, software, or hardware issues preventing its
    release. And from their own mouths, they have nothing to release yet relating to
    carriers.
    I get your other points, but I have to say something about this.

    It takes HP, and everyone else, MUCH longer than seven months to push out a phone. Seriously. I've never worked in phones but I do have some experience with interrelated hardware and software development projects and if I'm not sorely off (phones may be 'easier' but I sincerely doubt it), it takes more like 12-15 months to push out a device, counting from the Day 1 brainstorming session until release day.

    Companies don't develop Product 1, release it, and then start developing its successor; companies have multiple different teams working on tiered projects simultaneously. In other words: over at Apple, they have a team finishing up the iPhone 5 as we speak, they have another team in the middle of nitty-gritty iPhone 6 work, and I'd consider it highly likely that they even have yet another team busy with conceptual stuff and basic designs for the iPhone 7. I can't vouch for those names (iPhone 4G, 4S and 4GS anyone?) but I can pretty much say that if Apple is nearly as well-organized as I believe them to be, this is what's going on. HP works the same way, but I wouldn't want to speculate on the names of the products they're currently working on. Just this much: I'd be surprised if they weren't already working on the TouchPad 3 and the SUCCESSOR to the slate phone to be released "in the coming months" (whatever its name may turn out to be).

    The fact is that consumers, of course, never know about R&D and if you're just naive enough, you may even believe that Apple gets up on June 1, throws together an iPhone, announces it on June 6, and has it up for sale on June 14. It does not work that way and you canNOT use the time of announcement to judge development time.
    And most of all, you can't say "Oh, the Pre3 was announced in February, so that means they've been working on it for seven months, which is too long" because that is just wrong on every conceivable level.

    HP probably started on the Pre3 project right when the Palm buyout went through (if, indeed, it isn't still based on old Palm blueprints) and they've probably known a ROUGH estimated time of availability for a long time - that rough estimate being "summer". So they announced that back then, rather than face the consequences of only announcing a tablet and a tinyphone that is provably still a Palm design - people would've argued that they just wanted to get the Veer out of the warehouse and wouldn't be interested in any further telephones. Developers would have taken that as a sign to jump. HP knew why they announced it when they did.

    Which takes us back to what you said: back in February, they were probably putting the finishing touches on the design while negotiating with manufacturers about getting it mass-produced. The only variable here is when they chose to announce it - they could've done that later - but I've already said that they probably NEEDED to announce early due to long-term strategy even if short-term sales tactics might have benefited from a later announcement.
    JED-WEB-OS and falconrap like this.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ijip View Post
    its not liked the cancelled the playbook for sprint.

    rimm has to make a decision about where to focus its resources (look at stock price) they looked at the WiMAX market and guess what, not even sprint is going to continue support it. So y waist resources there.

    this was more to do with rim cost cutting, than with sprint not liking playbook numbers.
    According to the many articles about this on the internet, it was Sprint that cancelled their plans to support the Playbook.

    “It’s an interesting concept, it just hasn’t caught on with business customers as much as they would like,” said president of Sprint’s business markets group, Paget Alves. “There are so many tablets in the market, it creates confusion for the average customer.”

    [...]

    “and a Sprint spokesperson told The Journal that the decision to not release the 4G PlayBook will have no impact on the carrier’s relationship with RIM.”
    http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/12/sprint...ack-of-demand/
  13. ijip's Avatar
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    #13  
    sounds more like it was sprint saving face... With the restructuring at rimm I just don't believe that guy.

    what would sprint loose by adding the playbook to their lineup?
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  14. #14  
    See my post in another thread...Sprint getting ready for Pre 3 Launch....
    If "If's" and "But's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!


  15. #15  
    yeah I believe sprint is looking at the overall outlook of RIMM as a company, and right now why invest in a company that is looking extremely bad right now. Now even if they were the ones to not want to carry devices like the Pre 3 (which still to me is nothing solid, until sprint comes out, or HP comes out with an official statement not someone's insider like what we all have been hearing) at this point it makes sense for sprint, being the #3 carrier, and looking at a big acquisition in T-Mobile and At&t. So at this point I believe sprint is tying to play it safe, and not take chances on company's/certain devices, that may leave them giving them away for free only months after its released. To me Verizon will def be getting the Pre3, and other devices just due to what I'm stating, they are in a different situation then sprint, as is AT&T. I expect an announcement by early Sept, with the rumor release date 9/18 for AT&T for the pre 3 at least. I think at this point HP is trying to have that ready the same time as the 7 inch tablet.
  16. srb151's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    I get your other points, but I have to say something about this.

    It takes HP, and everyone else, MUCH longer than seven months to push out a phone. Seriously. I've never worked in phones but I do have some experience with interrelated hardware and software development projects and if I'm not sorely off (phones may be 'easier' but I sincerely doubt it), it takes more like 12-15 months to push out a device, counting from the Day 1 brainstorming session until release day.

    Companies don't develop Product 1, release it, and then start developing its successor; companies have multiple different teams working on tiered projects simultaneously. In other words: over at Apple, they have a team finishing up the iPhone 5 as we speak, they have another team in the middle of nitty-gritty iPhone 6 work, and I'd consider it highly likely that they even have yet another team busy with conceptual stuff and basic designs for the iPhone 7. I can't vouch for those names (iPhone 4G, 4S and 4GS anyone?) but I can pretty much say that if Apple is nearly as well-organized as I believe them to be, this is what's going on. HP works the same way, but I wouldn't want to speculate on the names of the products they're currently working on. Just this much: I'd be surprised if they weren't already working on the TouchPad 3 and the SUCCESSOR to the slate phone to be released "in the coming months" (whatever its name may turn out to be).

    The fact is that consumers, of course, never know about R&D and if you're just naive enough, you may even believe that Apple gets up on June 1, throws together an iPhone, announces it on June 6, and has it up for sale on June 14. It does not work that way and you canNOT use the time of announcement to judge development time.
    And most of all, you can't say "Oh, the Pre3 was announced in February, so that means they've been working on it for seven months, which is too long" because that is just wrong on every conceivable level.
    First, I am not naive, second, since this is all speculation, lets throw out a more real
    timeline due to a few facts....
    1. In Feb, they had at the very least working prototypes, if not pre production models
    to show. One heck of a lot further along than day 1.
    2. As you said, multiple teams. There's no reason the pre 3 should be months behind
    the veer and touchpad given what we know, if they were developed concurrently.
    3. HP wasn't starting from scratch...A good deal of the basic groundwork was done
    before HP even bought Palm. Which shortens development time further.

    Sorry, it doesn't look good still from where I sit. As I said, I hope it succeeds, I want
    one, but HP must have some pretty good size issue somewhere going on, be it with
    the carriers or elsewhere.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by srb151 View Post

    Is VZW getting this phone or not? Doesn't seem so, as much as I'd like one.
    FWIW, my companies Verizon sales rep has stated that the Pre 3 is currently undergoing testing with Big Red. No timelines or anything. I take it with the normal grain of salt but am encouraged none the less.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by ijip View Post
    sounds more like it was sprint saving face... With the restructuring at rimm I just don't believe that guy.

    what would sprint loose by adding the playbook to their lineup?
    i'm assuming that sprint wasn't willing to sign up for the volume that RIMM needed. If they are going to build a wimax device, sprint has to buy them all. Apparently sprint projected low enough sales that the volume commitment wasn't a good move for sprint to buy a bunch of wimax devices they didn't think they could sell.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by KCTraveler View Post
    FWIW, my companies Verizon sales rep has stated that the Pre 3 is currently undergoing testing with Big Red. No timelines or anything. I take it with the normal grain of salt but am encouraged none the less.
    All speculation aside, it's a publicly known fact that both of the big 2 carriers in the US have Pre 3 internal testing underway at this very moment.

    That's why I sit back and laugh when I read all the speculation threads popping up on this and other boards. Most of them are very negative and carrier biased.

    TTB
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by srb151 View Post
    First, I am not naive, second, since this is all speculation, lets throw out a more real
    timeline due to a few facts....
    1. In Feb, they had at the very least working prototypes, if not pre production models
    to show. One heck of a lot further along than day 1.
    2. As you said, multiple teams. There's no reason the pre 3 should be months behind
    the veer and touchpad given what we know, if they were developed concurrently.
    3. HP wasn't starting from scratch...A good deal of the basic groundwork was done
    before HP even bought Palm. Which shortens development time further.

    Sorry, it doesn't look good still from where I sit. As I said, I hope it succeeds, I want
    one, but HP must have some pretty good size issue somewhere going on, be it with
    the carriers or elsewhere.
    As an Engineer, designing the hardware is usually the easy part. The part that takes all of the time is the software. Remember that the Pre 3 does have some hardware differences over the Veer. So the software was probably ahead for the Veer, while the Pre 3 was still behind. Understanding how this stuff started with Palm, it's very likely that the Veer was prototyped a couple of months ahead of the Pre3, as Palm was coming off the Pre 2 design (which, quite frankly, they should have pushed more because it's an excellent phone).

    HP isn't behind schedule, per se. They are pretty much on track. The reason they announced so early (keep in mind that the Pre 2 got officially announced at Verizon at the same time), was to make sure everyone knew they were bringing some great products to webOS, that this was only the beginning (remember webOS on the PC), and that they wanted developers to understand the scale they would be bringing and, therefore, start developing apps. HP wasn't in the position of sitting on a strong marketshare base, where they could just wait until the phones were ready. They had to announce early to end the death knell calls.
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