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  • 6 Post By LCGuy
  • 1 Post By OrionAntares#CB
  • 1 Post By spudland
  • 1 Post By ilovedessert
  1.    #1  
    Hi all,

    Pre 3, Best Buy and why I won't bother with best Buy's Buy back program!

    I wanted to clarify something I misunderstood from other posters on this site, (or they didn't understand it correctly either), in reference to my desire not to be locked into a 2 year contract with the Pre 3, (at this point when and if it ever is released here in the USA).

    It is becoming harder and harder to find a one year contract for a smartphone, consider that in the 2 years of my contract time with V, Palm dropped PalmOS and the Centro.

    They then adopted webOS and the Pre line of phones, (Pre, Pixi and Pre Plus), Palm went belly up and was purchased by HP.

    If I could have a one year contract, I at least would have been able to get a Pre and enjoy webOS.

    Therefore, when a member informed me of Best Buy's buy back program I thought that was for me.

    However, the most recent issue of Consumer Reports, (Sept 2011), arrived in the mail today, (August 03, 2011). It explains the fine print of Best Buy's buyback program for cell phones/smartphones and tablets with a cell contract.

    Quoting from Consumer Reports, page 10, September 2011:

    "If you purchase a buyback plan for a cell phone, tablet or other device with a wireless contract, you're still liable for early termination fees that can cost $350, and you won't get a discounted price for the new device".


    Well that blows that idea, turning a phone into the buyback program is a total waste. After all they will stick you with an early termination fee up to several hundred dollars and then you are forced to buy the newer phone at full price...thanks I'll try to find a one year contract or get stuck with another 2 year contract.

    BTW one of the reason why I don't want the AT&T/T-Mobile merger to go thru is b/c of a similar situation.

    In Canada, after the merger, at least one of the carriers, Rogers is trying to cram a three year plan for smartphones down the customers throats. In three years from now, for all we know, BB could have fallen by the wayside and HP could jettison webOS.

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2.    #2  
    Hi all,

    I had another thought on this subject, when I got my Treo 300, 600 & 650, I had to buy them at full price, since in those days they weren't subsidizing the cost of smartphones.

    It may pay to buy the Pre3 or what ever smartphone you want at full price, use it & enjoy it, when you want to sell it on ebay and get a new one. This way you avoid the early termination fee and you aren't stuck, with a two year contract.

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  3. #3  
    Jay;

    Ive said this before, and I'll say it again:

    Carriers should NOT be allowed to provide/sell cell phones to users - its an inherent conflict of interest, and, in the end, the consumer suffers from:

    1. Lack of choice of carriers for any specific device they want (remember the iPhone onlyh on ATT?)
    2. Unfavorable "contract" term, which lean heavily towards the carrier for a device that the consumer literally owns;
    3. Smaller choice of devices due to carrier control of the market, which, they use to their own best interest.

    Q: Why can't HP, or HTC, or Nokia, or LG or Samsung make a true all band/all carrier phone and sell it to the public for them to use on any network that they choose, depending on the deal the carriers offer them (wow, imagine that.. real carrier competition for our business!).

    A: Because today, the Carriers drive the cell phone business, and have made it so dominant, that manufacturers can be locked out by them if they so choose to; the manufcturers have to play to where the market is, and the Carriers own it - that's why its time to regulate it, and take the devices away from the carriers, UNLESS they stop selling the phones to the consumers, and, instead, lease them, for discounted prices, to the consumers, which would have to compete with direct pricing and true ownership and carrier independance abilities on the phones they buy and own (but, this also means carriers would own the phones, and take the cash hit, initially, instead of how its done now, which is passing it through directly to the consumer, yet, still benefitting from hugely biased contract terms).

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Jay;

    Ive said this before, and I'll say it again:

    Carriers should NOT be allowed to provide/sell cell phones to users - its an inherent conflict of interest, and, in the end, the consumer suffers from:

    1. Lack of choice of carriers for any specific device they want (remember the iPhone onlyh on ATT?)
    2. Unfavorable "contract" term, which lean heavily towards the carrier for a device that the consumer literally owns;
    3. Smaller choice of devices due to carrier control of the market, which, they use to their own best interest.

    Q: Why can't HP, or HTC, or Nokia, or LG or Samsung make a true all band/all carrier phone and sell it to the public for them to use on any network that they choose, depending on the deal the carriers offer them (wow, imagine that.. real carrier competition for our business!).

    A: Because today, the Carriers drive the cell phone business, and have made it so dominant, that manufacturers can be locked out by them if they so choose to; the manufcturers have to play to where the market is, and the Carriers own it - that's why its time to regulate it, and take the devices away from the carriers, UNLESS they stop selling the phones to the consumers, and, instead, lease them, for discounted prices, to the consumers, which would have to compete with direct pricing and true ownership and carrier independance abilities on the phones they buy and own (but, this also means carriers would own the phones, and take the cash hit, initially, instead of how its done now, which is passing it through directly to the consumer, yet, still benefitting from hugely biased contract terms).

    Hi all,

    You got my vote! I agree with you all the way!

    take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Hi all,

    I had another thought on this subject, when I got my Treo 300, 600 & 650, I had to buy them at full price, since in those days they weren't subsidizing the cost of smartphones.

    It may pay to buy the Pre3 or what ever smartphone you want at full price, use it & enjoy it, when you want to sell it on ebay and get a new one. This way you avoid the early termination fee and you aren't stuck, with a two year contract.

    Take care,

    Jay
    I've started thinking this way too. It helps that if you stay a year or so behind the tech curve, you can get good phones like pre 2 for the same price you'd get a newer model with a contract. I think I will bite the contract bullet with the pre 3 though. But I should be able to resell it for a decent price if something else catches my eye later on to subsidize the next phone.
  6. #6  
    Still charged an ETF if you got into a 2 year contract and now you want out of it after a year? You've got to be kidding me that you are complaining about this right?

    The ETF would only apply if you were switching carriers though right? So if you stay with the same carrier you would not be subject to that.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    Still charged an ETF if you got into a 2 year contract and now you want out of it after a year? You've got to be kidding me that you are complaining about this right?

    The ETF would only apply if you were switching carriers though right? So if you stay with the same carrier you would not be subject to that.

    Correct. The ETF is a carrier-imposed fee if you leave the carrier.

    If you switch phones within the carrier anytime during your contract, no ETF.

    I think the issue is carrier subsidies for new mobile phones. In the good old days, you could get a new phone at a carrier-subsidized discount once a year. Now, seemingly once every two years.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey32 View Post
    Correct. The ETF is a carrier-imposed fee if you leave the carrier.

    If you switch phones within the carrier anytime during your contract, no ETF.

    I think the issue is carrier subsidies for new mobile phones. In the good old days, you could get a new phone at a carrier-subsidized discount once a year. Now, seemingly once every two years.
    Hi all,

    Am I correct, if you buy the Pre3 outright and then go to a carrier you can sign up for a year or two, but it's your phone??? If you decide to sell it on ebay, then you can buy a new phone with no extra fees from the carrier, (as long as you stay with them for the full duration of the contract.

    This interests me for another reason. Unless I'm mistaken the Pre2, Veer, Pre3 and the Touchpad, were all designed by what was the Palm Design Group.

    That group has been disbanded, with the design of hardware for the Palm division going directly to HP. The press hasn't been kind to the hardware, but loves webOS. Perhaps not having the Palm Design Group designing the hardware and now that Ruby has been transferred out of the Palm Group, I expect major design changes, as HP needs to have a winner as it spend $1.2 BILLION on webOS just in buying Palm. At this point they more than likely spent that much on webOS without HOT product!

    This way I can BUY a Pre3 and then get rid of it when the HP designed webOS smartphones hit the stores and not have a hissy fit from the carrier!

    take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  9. #9  
    If you get a phone on contract you can sell it. You pay etf only if you quit your carrier. Getting a different phone on the same carrier off-contract won't trigger an etf
    Last edited by FenrirWolf; 08/03/2011 at 11:18 PM.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    However, the most recent issue of Consumer Reports, (Sept 2011), arrived in the mail today, (August 03, 2011). It explains the fine print of Best Buy's buyback program for cell phones/smartphones and tablets with a cell contract.

    Quoting from Consumer Reports, page 10, September 2011:

    "If you purchase a buyback plan for a cell phone, tablet or other device with a wireless contract, you're still liable for early termination fees that can cost $350, and you won't get a discounted price for the new device".

    I think some information might be a little mixed up here. Yea, if you cancel your contract you have to pay an ETF. Changing phones does not mean you're canceling your contract. I have not looked over the complete fine print on the buyback program but from what I've been told by reps, the buy back price is based on Best Buy's retail value for the device, not what you pay for it. Essentially you are getting a credit toward the price of a new phone from your old phone. If you purchase a phone at the contract rate that retails at Best Buy for $600, in 6 months you can turn it in for a $300 credit toward whatever replacement phone you want, or $240 in up to 12 months, etc.

    Now depending the phones you pick and the ETF rate, it could be cheaper to pay the ETF. But it could also be cheaper to have gone with the buy back and if you're a Verizon/AT&T customer with a grandfathered data plan and aren't changing carriers, the ETF isn't even an option. There is also the 3rd option of hoping the phone retains enough value to eBay and make the same or more than what th buy back gives you.

    It looks like that quoted line is meant to inform cutomers that the buy back program will not cancel out their ETF and will not stack with the contract subsidy. That is an understandable policy.
    65fastback likes this.
  11. lactose's Avatar
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    #11  
    I do this equation every now and then, and one thing to consider is supposedly the two year contract is paying off part of your phone. Yet my bill doesn't go down after my contract ends. So in a way I am penalized for not being under contract.

    It troubles me to read of a couple cases where phones could only be purchased on contract, not outright. This whole thing is getting out of hand, and we seriously need to smack these carriers down.

    At the end of the day I guess I would rather lose a little than enter into a more complicated arrangement that is likely wired to screw me.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I think some information might be a little mixed up here. Yea, if you cancel your contract you have to pay an ETF. Changing phones does not mean you're canceling your contract. I have not looked over the complete fine print on the buyback program but from what I've been told by reps, the buy back price is based on Best Buy's retail value for the device, not what you pay for it. Essentially you are getting a credit toward the price of a new phone from your old phone. If you purchase a phone at the contract rate that retails at Best Buy for $600, in 6 months you can turn it in for a $300 credit toward whatever replacement phone you want, or $240 in up to 12 months, etc.

    Now depending the phones you pick and the ETF rate, it could be cheaper to pay the ETF. But it could also be cheaper to have gone with the buy back and if you're a Verizon/AT&T customer with a grandfathered data plan and aren't changing carriers, the ETF isn't even an option. There is also the 3rd option of hoping the phone retains enough value to eBay and make the same or more than what th buy back gives you.

    It looks like that quoted line is meant to inform cutomers that the buy back program will not cancel out their ETF and will not stack with the contract subsidy. That is an understandable policy.
    My son works for Best Buy and you are correct...buy a phone with $600 retail from BB and get $300 credit withing 6 months toward any other phone at retail (if Pre 3 retail is $600 then it'll cost you $300 to switch...if it comes out at $500 then it'll cost $200 to switch). There are no ETF's if you keep the same carrier.
    If "If's" and "But's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!


    65fastback likes this.
  13.    #13  
    Hi all,

    Thank you so much to all of you for clearing this up for me.

    take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
    spudland likes this.
  14. #14  
    looks like orion and spud beat me to it
    @agentmock

    Audiovox SMT5600 (WM) --> Cingular 8125 (WM) --> Sprint Mogul 8525 (WM) --> Palm Pre (webOS)- --> Sprint Franken Pre2 (webOS) + 32gb Touchpad (webOS)

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