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  1. #21  
    what are you all saying that its better not to have the touchpad wifi? I want the phone to work with the touchpad.Thats what got me into this.Now there not even going to have it?then what, they won't make the touchpad apps that are worth anything and were left with a 600 dollar toy. Not a good thought. Does the veer work like the pre 3 is suppose to? I'm not even sure I,m on the same page you guys are so forgive me if I'm not. New to webos the touchpad is my first.
  2. jsabo's Avatar
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    #22  
    If HP wants to swim in this pool, they need to get used to getting wet.

    Even if Apple releases the specs for the iPhone 5 tomorrow and it blows the Pre3 out of the water, HP has to release it so they get used to dealing with the customer service issues, updates, etc.

    They're never going to get faster at getting phones out the door until they actually, you know, get phones out the door.
    wassupTC and tholap like this.
  3. #23  
    i think the people that already love webOS and have not moved on to Android or iphone will probably buy it and be satisfied. Outside of those people i think it will have a tough time.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  4. #24  
    Pre-3 is not like DOA, but will be like Veer and pre-2
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by KJ78 View Post
    I read the iPhone 5 will have a gesture area, singe button and inductive charging. It sounds like the OG Pre lives on, at least.
    No keyboard.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  6. cgk
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Oy.

    First, the answer to the question is "No". There are more than a few million people who will buy the Pre 3.. even if most of them are current WebOS fans, past or present. That's far from "DOA".
    Have the first three devices combined even sold that amount?* Leaving asides the merits of the actual tech, isn't this going to have the same problem that blackberry (from a higher base admittedly) is suffering from?

    that is to say, regards of their technical merits, the bold line is seen as old hat because even though the users are happy, from the outside, it just looks like the same phone being pushed out time and time again? As we know, perception is often more important that the actual product.



    * anyone got any hard numbers?
    Last edited by CGK; 08/04/2011 at 03:57 AM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    I don't know how well it has sold, but I have yet to see one in the wild.
    The Pre is said to be quite popular in Germany. However, I barely saw any Pres in the wild. Apart from me I know three Pre-users (one exchanged his for an iPhone and the other is wondering where he should go) and I've seen one on the train.

    I once went into a O2 shop and they only had a dummy on display. On asking if they had a working unit he said that they sold every they had.
  8. wassupTC's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    the bold line is seen as old hat because even though the users are happy, from the outside, it just looks like the same phone being pushed out time and time again? As we know, perception is often more important that the actual product.
    Hasn't seemed to hurt the iPhone yet.

    Apple has the "we're the little guy" or "we aren't like everybody else" thing going for them. Hard to imagine a 'little guy' that has tens of billions of dollars in the bank or the fact that bunches of people have iPhones, but I think that's the perception.
  9. cgk
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    #29  
    Hasn't seemed to hurt the iPhone yet.
    But nobody had the perception that the iphone was a failure, so they can get away with that. If you are on the fourth revision of a phone that was less than successful the first three times out of the gate then it's a different marketing problem. Sales and success help to cover up all sorts of things.
  10. wassupTC's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jsabo View Post
    They're never going to get faster at getting phones out the door until they actually, you know, get phones out the door.
    Exactly!

    My perception is that CSRs in carrier stores have heard of the Pre3, whether through their own research or customers continually asking about the phone, but no one has a clue--Sprint or AT&T (haven't gone into a VZW store yet)--as to when or if they will be getting the phone.

    Our phones are about to die and we would love to get the Pre3, but my goodness, just release the phone already!

    Apple hasn't even *announced* the existence of the iPhone 5 yet; and HP *announced* the Pre3 back in February. FEBRUARY!

    HP has got to get this phone out the door and get it into the hands of the public. If the Pre3 won't be available in the United States, then fine. Announce the Pre4 or whatever it's called this month, with full specs and confirmed carriers, and release it next month.

    We are just about forced to bail on webOS at this point. The only options are:

    1. FrankenPre our Sprint phone into a Pre2. Cost: $350
    2. Switch to AT&T and buy a Veer. Cost: $40/month more, less productivity--it's too small for work applications, poor service in our area.
    3. Switch to android and hope to find an App that has the same amazing Calendar that the Pre does. $0 - 200/phone.

    So frustrating!
  11. wassupTC's Avatar
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    #31  
    BTW is there *any* chance that HP has a clue as to how frustrated their loyal customer base is at this point?
  12. #32  
    I hope not. However, as long as it is as good as I THINK it will be, then I will be content.

    I simply like the form factor (physical keyboard in vertical align) and love webOS. My primary phone is still the BB Tour. If there is a more "outdated" phone (spec wise)...I'm not sure what it would be. However, it simply does all I need and does it very reliably. My Pre- does all I need and MUCH of what I want (thank you, Hoembrew community). However, the Pre is just not quite reliable enough for me to make it my primary.


    Give me a Pre3 that solves the reliability and a homebrew community that is still active and I will keep it for a long, long time.


    I have tried slabs (no physical keyboard) and you can have all of them. I do not like them. If Pre3 were to be the death of the platform (obviously, I do not think this) I would have to stay with BB (until THEY die, too). Maybe I am killing these phone manufacturers. ha
    kins likes this.
  13. wassupTC's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlee2001 View Post
    My Pre- does all I need and MUCH of what I want (thank you, Hoembrew community). However, the Pre is just not quite reliable enough for me to make it my primary.


    Give me a Pre3 that solves the reliability and a homebrew community that is still active and I will keep it for a long, long time.
    Completely agree. I don't need a hexa-core, ultra-Tegra processor with 16 GB ram, 320 GB of storage, and an acre of screen space. Some do. Many don't. The biggest improvements that people care about is the screen resolution/crispness, battery life, and durability of the product; which boil down to a solid display manufacturer--Samsung--to which most have access, better application and radio management--software development, and a beefed up frame.

    I can't really shake the frustration this morning.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    But nobody had the perception that the iphone was a failure, so they can get away with that. If you are on the fourth revision of a phone that was less than successful the first three times out of the gate then it's a different marketing problem. Sales and success help to cover up all sorts of things.
    Truth in a nutshell. Iphone has every one fooled, "Make 3 more version of the same phone in a 3yr span. All models suck but no one will dispute us because we can bury you in legal lawsuits for slander with our billions of dollars" mentality.
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by wassupTC View Post
    Completely agree. I don't need a hexa-core, ultra-Tegra processor with 16 GB ram, 320 GB of storage, and an acre of screen space. Some do. Many don't. The biggest improvements that people care about is the screen resolution/crispness, battery life, and durability of the product; which boil down to a solid display manufacturer--Samsung--to which most have access, better application and radio management--software development, and a beefed up frame.

    I can't really shake the frustration this morning.
    I always hear people saying "I don't need X."

    Well, thats true. However, when smartphone pricing is pretty well established, and you can get more for your dollar, settling for old tech in an industry this fast paced is not a wise choice.

    You may not think you "need" a faster processor, but you will use it every single time you use the device. Every time you perform a task milliseconds faster, thats more time you don't wait. Thats a few more seconds of your life every week or however long.

    Every time you look at a nice screen and see more information than we used to see you "use" the new tech.

    Every time you don't have to clear download space or choose which game you really want to install, you "use" the better specs.

    I think it's simply silly to say they don't matter as some people say.

    Specs aren't everything, but they're certainly very very important.
  16. #36  
    Each of us is actually EXPERTS on what matters to US.

    Neither Wassop, nor I, made any macro economic pronouncements. We said what WE (the two individuals) need to be satisfied.


    Take your sanctimonious "silly to say" garbage elsewhere. I know about ME 100%.
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    #37  
    Specs are what made me buy the Samsung Galaxy S2.

    Keyboard and webOS are what made me sell the GS2 and wait for a Pre3.
    Pilot 5000 > Pre > Pre2 > Pre3 > Galaxy Nexus
    TouchPad > Galaxy Tab 8.9
    kins likes this.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by eallan View Post
    settling for old tech in an industry this fast paced is not a wise choice.
    every purchase we make is settling for old tech... before we can ever whip out our credit cards, there is something new and better somewhere in R&D or rolling off an assembly line. besides, who are you to dictate what the wise choices are and are not? to a collector, the zack morris phone would be pretty wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by eallan View Post
    Every time you perform a task milliseconds faster, thats more time you don't wait. Thats a few more seconds of your life every week or however long.
    well i don't know about you, but i don't have a positronic brain. a few milliseconds each day really don't make much difference to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by eallan View Post
    Every time you look at a nice screen and see more information than we used to see you "use" the new tech.
    i don't need to read my e-mails in 3D.

    Quote Originally Posted by eallan View Post
    Every time you don't have to clear download space or choose which game you really want to install, you "use" the better specs.
    if they condensed an entire server farm into something that could fit in one's pocket, it still wouldn't be enough for some people... there is always some electronic hoarder out there that "needs" more. gotta draw the line somewhere, and for most of us, where that line is drawn really doesn't matter.

    my original pre does everything i need and many things i want, and it does them all well. do i enjoy new technology? damn straight. but i don't have an obsessive compulsive need to chase the highest numbers on paper because some guy at engadget told me to... can't really afford to, either. sure, i'll upgrade someday, but it'll be when i have a justifiable need... and when that happens, i'll make the wisest choice for me.

    (and as a total aside on the specs - since they're sooo important - people criticizing the TP for being "heavy" really grinds my gears... if you really have problems lifting something that's a freakin' quarter of a pound heavier, you really need to do a few more pushups. )
  19. gabe2gg's Avatar
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    #39  
    Sorry but the Pre3 is probably going to be sold month as the Iphone5 in the US. It will be DOA.
  20. cgk
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    #40  
    Thinking a bit more about this, the better way to think about it is not "is it DOA?" what is it's "potential for success?"

    I don't know much about the US market but in the UK it needs the combination of three things (none of which are actually related to the spec or the OS):

    Carrier availability:

    I know on sites like this we go on and on about sim unlocked phones and their prices but the reality is that the majority of smartphones are bought on contract via either the four large carriers (Orange, T-mobile, Vodafone, O2) or by intermediaries (Carphone warhouse, phones4u) who offer the contracts of the four large carriers.

    So if it's offered on all carriers, then the potential is high, if it's offered only via sim unlocked and the web, the potential is low. Obviously with a range of options inbetween (some carriers, two carriers etc).

    Tariff:

    The second thing is the range and price of tariffs it is on. If it is only available on tariffs that are comparable with the iphone or similar devices, the potential is low. Similarly, the more carriers who take it, the more tariffs it is available on, so the higher the potential for sales. Consumers in the UK care far more about the upfront cost and the monthly payment rather than the TCO.

    Promotion:

    Tied to the first two, if it's on a range of carriers and a range of tariffs, then by association it will be promoted more in-store, via the carrier websites and their brochures. If it's not available via carriers or only promoted by HP, then it's potential is low. That's before we get into HP's own spend, obviously the more they throw at it, the better the potential for success.


    So depending on the combination of those factors (and other variables such as what the competition is offering at the time), if HP get it on a range of carriers and a range of tariffs and has a range of promotion, then the potential is high, if they don't at the other extreme, then it's low. If this is only offered sim only or via HP's site, then within the UK, it will be very hard for this to be a mainstream success.

    At the moment, we simply don't have enough information about any of those factors to make any sort of judgement.
    tholap likes this.
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