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  1.    #1  
    Warning: short novel ahead.

    When HP announced the Veer, TouchPad and Pre3 back in February, the Pre3 was announced for "summer". Summer is still going on, but we're already complaining that HP didn't release the Pre3 on time, that it's outdated, stuff like that. Why? It's still on time because it's still within schedule, and how do we define outdated anyway?

    I think the problem many on this forum have with HP is that they don't simply want a powerful phone, and don't simply want a powerful phone that works well. I think the problem many on this forum have with HP is that they want a phone that wipes the floor with any other phone any other person they're likely to meet on the street could own.
    They don't just want a quick and mighty smartphone to stay in the loop or even stay entertained - they want to be able to show it around, or even merely put it on the table, and have every head magically turn around to witness the greatness.
    They don't want a phone that's quick, or powerful, or has a big screen, or any particular feature - they want the quickest, or most powerful, or the one with the biggest screen... a phone whose features, nevermind what exactly they are, are extreme.
    They don't want their phone to be merely a source for information and a medium for communication, they want it to be a source of pride and a medium for self-staging. And this desire is perfectly fine... so fine, in fact, and so widespread that a lot of companies are catering to this demographic.

    All of that perfectly explains why the TouchPad is considered such a failure by some on this forum - it's not THE slimmest, or THE lightest... so what's the point? It doesn't have a bigger screen or one that's objectively better than the competition... so what's the point? It only comes with webOS, which has some "I liked this OS way before it was cool" appeal, but since nobody will raise an eyebrow when you say "webOS", that doesn't count yet.

    The question simply isn't "does this device do what I want it to do?", the question becomes "can I brag about anything this device does?".

    And I think this is why the Forum is, collectively, so antsy about the Pre3. Had it been released on the spot back in February, its 1.4GHz processor would still have been something to brag about. When it actually does get released at the end of August, it won't be. This doesn't change anything about the Pre3's usability, of course; it doesn't make it slower, or less performant, or less smooth - if anything, the optimization period has made it quicker, more performant and more smooth. The Pre3 will be more useful next month than it would have been back in February.

    But that doesn't matter, you see - because by September, it won't have any extreme features anymore. 1,4GHz will have become fairly run-of-the-mill and definitely nothing to brag about anymore, and the phone's other features speak volumes about how little HP cared to deliver an "extreme" phone in the Pre3.

    And that, you see, is the root of the problem. The Pre3 is an upper midrange business phone, but a large group of people on here doesn't want that. They want an extreme phone; a "sports phone" in a matter of speaking, a Ford GT to the Pre3's Ford Taurus (and the Veer's Ford Ka). They don't understand - or don't want to understand - that the Pre3 was never designed to be what they want, so they claim that it WAS designed to be what they want and simply fails at it, and because it's still not out on the market, it's failing some more.

    Meanwhile, those of us who just want a phone and have come to love webOS for its ease of use, ESPECIALLY those of us who actually like hardware keyboards -- you know, the Pre3's target audience? -- are looking at the calendar and thinking "summer is gonna be over in a few weeks, so the Pre3 is coming", and reading a new thread about how outdated the Pre3 will be. So yeah - how do you guys define outdated, anyway? The definition used here is "anything that isn't cutting edge high-end stuff is outdated". I'd ask to reconsider. Otherwise, by that definition, 75% of ANYTHING that gets released is outdated at the time of release. Defining anything except envelope-pushing high-end innovations as "outdated" is broken and unworkable.

    The Pre3 won't be outdated when it is released, it simply won't be an envelope-pushing high-end device. It'll be a solid midrange "business class" phone. That's just what I (and a lot of other people) want. It may not be what YOU want, but even if you're obviously well-represented on an internet smartphone forum, you should consider that you're a minority of the total populace. So are those of us in want a midrange business phone, by the way, just so you know. But the fact still remains that you want the Pre3 to be something it simply is not, and you're not judging it by what it is but by what you want it to be. This is unfair.

    Now I'm thinking that HP is going to go after the "sports phone" demographic that wants their phone to kick all their friends' phones and brag about it, but I don't have any inside information. HP may be working on something, or they may not. You have the chance to keep waiting for it, or leave and pick up whatever Android phone is brag-worthy this week (it may be superseded as the brag-worthiest handset next week and may never receive more than one software update, but nevermind: you had the chance to brag for a while, which is more than the Pre3 is going to give you).

    I really hope that HP will, at some point, release such a phone and give you guys a viable "sports phone" option. I really hope that the "stingray" prototype we've seen will be this phone, with a ultra-high-res screen and some over-the-top CPU and a bunch of features that are just in there so we can say they're in there. Sure. That would be good for the vocal sports phone demographic AND for webOS' standing in the market because that demographic is, in fact, rather large (and I'd argue actually probably larger than the small-phone Veer demographic). But we have no idea when that is going to surface and what will be in it when it does.

    But please stop putting these expectations on the Pre3 - you're not expecting it to perform in any given way, you're expecting it to actually BE something it's not, and something it was never designed to be.
    You're looking at a new romantic comedy with Meg Ryan and expecting the CG effects to AT LEAST hold up with the newest Michael Bay explosionfest. You're looking at a new station wagon and expecting the top speed to at least be above that of a Corvette.

    If you accept that the Pre3 is not meant to be a phone you whip out to make grown people stare in disbelief and young children cry in existential horror, it becomes SO MUCH EASIER to accept that it wasn't released back in February when you could have used those 1.4GHz as an excellent <measurement> to whip out and prove your digital superiority, and that it's only being released in August/September, when those 1.4GHz are only good for powering the phone. August becomes "summer" and on time instead of an unbearable delay.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 07/29/2011 at 12:42 PM. Reason: LANGUAGE
  2. #2  
    Good read. I bought my PC 3 years ago. Top of the line for a non-suped up, non-gamer console. Nowhere near bleeding edge now, but still runs decent and works for me.

    moral of the storey:

    If you don't want your electronics to get outdated....stop buying electronics
  3. #3  
    I find it funny that people around here are afraid the general public are going to look down on the Pre 3 for not being a Galaxy Quintuple S 9000, while those in other tech-savvy communities I frequent think it looks like a nice phone and are interested to see how it turns out.
  4. robdos's Avatar
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    #4  
    I agree.

    I've been looking forward to the Pre 3, but over the last 2 weeks or so have been looking at my Pre 2, sat on it's touchstone, happily collecting my email for me, and wondering what will I actually get with the pre 3 that will change the way I use the phone. Probably nothing. So why bother?

    Maybe if I stop getting webos updates I might consider it, which is why I have my pre 2, but otherwise I cant really justify a newer model.

    Thats just me.....others may disagree.
  5. Targon's Avatar
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    #5  
    While I agree with most of the original post, the problem is that when the Pre 3 was announced, it WAS a cutting edge device. So, the question remains, why wait to release a phone that WAS cutting edge and will only be a good phone in another month? Cutting edge devices are the devices people get EXCITED to buy, and that excitement extends out to those who write applications.

    So, by waiting so long, and without ANY hype or attempt to encourage excitement for the Pre 3 when it FINALLY launches, HP is basically killing any chance of getting a huge burst of developer enthusiasm for the platform. As it stands now, no matter how happy we may be with the Pre 3 because it is WebOS on faster hardware with a larger screen and keyboard, it won't draw the masses when it launches because the iPhone 5 will be coming out too close to the Pre 3 launch window.

    And this is why people like myself hope that HP will upgrade the hardware specs at launch to again be a cutting edge device, just to draw more people to the platform.

    Basic question: $199 with two year contract for a single-core 1.4GHz device, or $199 with two year contract for a dual-core 1.5GHz device, which do you think the public would go for in September, without a preference for one platform over the other? It is pretty obvious what the choice would be, as long as the dual-core 1.5GHz device isn't horrible.

    This is why the Pre 3 won't do well, because the price at launch needs to be appropriate based on what other devices are on the market. The price of the Pre Plus on Verizon and AT&T dropped like a rock, because a 500MHz stock speed wasn't seen as high end and the phone was selling for the same amount under contract as the iPhone 3GS, which was clocked at 600MHz. HP SHOULD understand this, and HP should also understand that not talking to the enthusiast community is also going to kill their sales.

    There is another thing that many people don't think about, back to school time. Parents and teenagers go into that back to school shopping mode in August. Summer jobs bring in money to buy stuff, and a new phone may be included in that. By waiting until September, HP will miss that window. Being able to "show off" a new phone would have helped push sales of the Pre 3, and HP is missing that as well.

    Does anyone at HP have a clue about ANY of this stuff?
  6. redmist's Avatar
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    #6  
    Great post and one which I actually have experience of.

    I had an ASUS Transformer before I had my TouchPad. The Transformer had a bigger and clearer screen and had loads of applications and had that "OOOH" factor when I showed it to anyone.

    But I sold it and went for the TouchPad. Why? Because it does what I need it to do, better.

    And that's why I am waiting patiently for the Pre3, because it will do what I want it to do, better. Better than an iPhone 5? Yes. Better than a Samsung Galaxy S2? yes - I sold mine and living with an old Android phone until the Pre3 comes out.
    Pilot 5000 > Pre > Pre2 > Pre3 > Galaxy Nexus
    TouchPad > Galaxy Tab 8.9
  7. #7  
    I agree that most people want the Pre3 to be this phone that makes others turn their heads but that's not everybody. Personally, I just want better hardware and for my buttons to work again without having to smash them in that and all the imrpovements - bigger screen, better camera, Skype etc. I'm getting really impatient with them.....
  8. #8  
    I agree with most of your post, however I think general "antsiness" is rising to a fevered pitch now because there is NOTHING out of HP about the Pre 3. Look at the phones that are being announced on carriers now -- they are being announced for the September and beyond time frame. That means if HP were to announce the Pre 3 on AT&T and VZW today they would not be here until September or later. Since we have heard precious little about the Pre 3 from HP that means that a September launch on any U.S. carrier is practically non-existent.

    It's as if HP never said anything about the Pre 3 those eons ago in February and this forum is all just based on rumors and conjecture.
    BlueTuna likes this.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMist View Post
    But I sold it and went for the TouchPad. Why? Because it does what I need it to do, better.
    Just out of curiosity, I have a transformer, in your opinion what does the TP do better?

    -Suntan
  10. #10  
    Love your post, GSH.

    As for why we're not hearing about the Pre3 yet: it's not time yet. HP is building all the buzz they can for TouchPad right now. The Pre3 would detract from that.

    ("Oh, but what about Touch-To-Share? That would make people want a TouchPad MORE!") Yeah ... but it would also make people say "Awesome. I'll buy a TouchPad when the Pre3 is finally out." HP doesn't want that either. Divided focus is the kiss of death in marketing.

    At the end of the day, it's HP's decision. They don't want to talk about the Pre3 yet, and they have a lot of smart folks working for them. Not that I'm saying internet forum members aren't as qualified to make these decisions ... oh, wait. Yes, I am.

    It'll be out when it's out. If it's too late, HP will learn. ("It's already too late!") Only for spec nerds.

    Everyone needs to settle down.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    ("Oh, but what about Touch-To-Share? That would make people want a TouchPad MORE!") Yeah ... but it would also make people say "Awesome. I'll buy a TouchPad when the Pre3 is finally out." HP doesn't want that either. Divided focus is the kiss of death in marketing.
    Then that's simple. <<mod delete>> release it already.

    You're running into the danger of the reversal: "OK, maybe I'll think about the TouchPad, now that the Pre3 is out and works well. Oh wait, that speedbumped tablet is round the corner, I'll wait on buying that. The Pre3 can wait, since I've been waiting for 6 effin months already".
    Last edited by bevcraw; 07/29/2011 at 11:36 AM. Reason: language
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    Then that's simple. Effing release it already.

    You're running into the danger of the reversal: "OK, maybe I'll think about the TouchPad, now that the Pre3 is out and works well. Oh wait, that speedbumped tablet is round the corner, I'll wait on buying that. The Pre3 can wait, since I've been waiting for 6 effin months already".
    I think I'd be more impressed with the rebuttal if the flippant "release it already" wasn't present. You know this is entirely new hardware, running a new webOS version, right? And that HP's negotiations with VZW and AT&T to carry/brand/advertise this thing aren't exactly the kind of details you iron out over the morning coffee hour?

    Nah; you're right. Let's just release it and let half the apps run in a 3.2-inch emulation window. People have been digging it on the TouchPad.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    I think I'd be more impressed with the rebuttal if the flippant "release it already" wasn't present. You know this is entirely new hardware, running a new webOS version, right? And that HP's negotiations with VZW and AT&T to carry/brand/advertise this thing aren't exactly the kind of details you iron out over the morning coffee hour?

    Nah; you're right. Let's just release it and let half the apps run in a 3.2-inch emulation window. People have been digging it on the TouchPad.
    Of course I do. Which makes me wonder why American carriers haven't improved at all, if not got worse.

    They used to have an edge over us Canadians with better plans, but it seems like we've overtaken with HSPA on all carriers and availability of devices (we even have the Galaxy S2 already when AT&T is still figuring out how to cripple it and renaming it to Attain). Now if only our stupid 3-year contracts are gone...
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  14. #14  
    At least we agree that wireless carriers are horrendous!
  15. #15  
    For me, it's mostly an issue of feeling that HP missed the ideal launch window for this device.. I firmly believe that by the time they get around to releasing it, there will be too much hype surrounding the iPhone 5 and the Android phones being released that the Pre 3 will simply not do well. I believe the Pre 3 is a key to the future of WebOS on smartphones. The Pre 2 and Veer didn't do so hot. There is the chance that if the Pre 3 flops, then HP will simply decide it's not worth their time and money to pursue smartphones (heck, they didn't even want to in the first place) any longer and focus on tablets, PCs and printers. WebOS isn't even close to be a major player in the smartphone world...they really don't even have a seat at the table yet. So I'm just mad b/c I truly feel like HP has doomed WebOS on smartphones by releasing the Pre 3 so late in the summer.
  16. #16  
    ^ Your entire argument is based on your assumption that the Pre3 is a make-or-break device for HP. It's not. Neither was the TouchPad and neither was the Veer.

    HP isn't Palm; they don't need a grand slam to survive. They're going to do this slowly and methodically, because that's how they work.
    IGNTNUNLMTD and BlueTuna like this.
  17. redmist's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Just out of curiosity, I have a transformer, in your opinion what does the TP do better?

    -Suntan
    I do a lot of typing on screen, and the TF keyboard (no matter which one I chose) were all terribly, unbearably laggy. The browser is faster and doesn't crash. Multi tasking is no after-thought and works instinctively..

    In fact, see my blog post here..

    Why Google’s Android Honeycomb is not good enough | Bad Atheist
    Pilot 5000 > Pre > Pre2 > Pre3 > Galaxy Nexus
    TouchPad > Galaxy Tab 8.9
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    ^ Your entire argument is based on your assumption that the Pre3 is a make-or-break device for HP. It's not. Neither was the TouchPad and neither was the Veer.

    HP isn't Palm; they don't need a grand slam to survive. They're going to do this slowly and methodically, because that's how they work.
    I wasn't making an argument. Merely giving my opinion (I started my post with "For me").

    I just don't see WebOS getting ANOTHER do-over. The Pre was a nice device, but terribly flawed. The Pre Plus was underwhelming. The Pre 2 even more underwhelming. The Veer...well...you know. The TP was instantly flogged for its 10 million bugs. While HP may not need the Pre 3 to be a grand slam, they need a solid base hit. The smartphone market is moving way too fast for them to be playing small ball. A bunt won't do when your opposition is clobbering extra base hits and homeruns.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    I wasn't making an argument. Merely giving my opinion (I started my post with "For me").

    I just don't see WebOS getting ANOTHER do-over. The Pre was a nice device, but terribly flawed. The Pre Plus was underwhelming. The Pre 2 even more underwhelming. The Veer...well...you know. The TP was instantly flogged for its 10 million bugs. While HP may not need the Pre 3 to be a grand slam, they need a solid base hit. The smartphone market is moving way too fast for them to be playing small ball. A bunt won't do when your opposition is clobbering extra base hits and homeruns.
    Great use of baseball analogies.
    I hope webOS can "Sprint" into first place.
  20. #20  
    Sir you are correct I do want that mythical webOS sportscar phone and I have been wanting it ever since I wrapped my hands around my launch day Palm Pre...I wish they would have released it because so far I have passed on Pixi, Pre +, Pixi+, Pre 2, Android Hero, Evo, Nexus S, and Evo 3D...

    When the Pre 3 and Veer were announced in Feb. I was disappointed because neither was the phone I wanted but I will be getting the Pre 3 and switching back to ATT when it becomes available because I like working with webOS...but I am still waiting for the webOS superphone that i really want and I have $500 sitting in the bank so that when it comes I can jump on it...
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