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  1. #21  
    My "antsiness" is purely because my ATT Pre+ has become nearly unusable in this heat. I don't want to use my upgrade for the Veer. Replacement devices all cost prohibitive amounts of money (for one who is underemployed, like me). And I'm too used to webOS and need a portrait slider keyboard. So I'm stuck waiting for the Pre3. Antsy, indeed.
  2. Hobbz's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    You're looking at a new romantic comedy with Meg Ryan and expecting the CG effects to AT LEAST hold up with the newest Michael Bay explosionfest. You're looking at a new station wagon and expecting the top speed to at least be above that of a Corvette.
    Nice analogies there.

    I agree with what you're saying. Part of the frustration can be the fact HP stays silent about any plans until the last second (or perhaps a little later) while their competition don't seem as hesitant with announcing launch dates.

    Let's face it, HP does control what information is released. I'm not passing judgment on why they're silent, just stating an obvious fact. Since their competitors are more open about providing targeted launch dates, HP's silence can convert eagerness and passion into frustration and impatience.


    On a personal note, I'm faced with the fact my two year old Pre's life is rapidly coming to an end. If I don't find a replacement before that fateful day, I'll be forced to make a hasty decision on its replacement. That's my source of stress when it comes to a phone. Too bad that's not the biggest thing to worry about in life though.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Warning: short novel ahead.

    When HP announced the Veer, TouchPad and Pre3 back in February, the Pre3 was announced for "summer". Summer is still going on, but we're already complaining that HP didn't release the Pre3 on time, that it's outdated, stuff like that. Why? It's still on time because it's still within schedule, and how do we define outdated anyway?

    I think the problem many on this forum have with HP is that they don't simply want a powerful phone, and don't simply want a powerful phone that works well. I think the problem many on this forum have with HP is that they want a phone that wipes the floor with any other phone any other person they're likely to meet on the street could own.
    They don't just want a quick and mighty smartphone to stay in the loop or even stay entertained - they want to be able to show it around, or even merely put it on the table, and have every head magically turn around to witness the greatness.
    They don't want a phone that's quick, or powerful, or has a big screen, or any particular feature - they want the quickest, or most powerful, or the one with the biggest screen... a phone whose features, nevermind what exactly they are, are extreme.
    They don't want their phone to be merely a source for information and a medium for communication, they want it to be a source of pride and a medium for self-staging. And this desire is perfectly fine... so fine, in fact, and so widespread that a lot of companies are catering to this demographic.

    All of that perfectly explains why the TouchPad is considered such a failure by some on this forum - it's not THE slimmest, or THE lightest... so what's the point? It doesn't have a bigger screen or one that's objectively better than the competition... so what's the point? It only comes with webOS, which has some "I liked this OS way before it was cool" appeal, but since nobody will raise an eyebrow when you say "webOS", that doesn't count yet.

    The question simply isn't "does this device do what I want it to do?", the question becomes "can I brag about anything this device does?".

    And I think this is why the Forum is, collectively, so antsy about the Pre3. Had it been released on the spot back in February, its 1.4GHz processor would still have been something to brag about. When it actually does get released at the end of August, it won't be. This doesn't change anything about the Pre3's usability, of course; it doesn't make it slower, or less performant, or less smooth - if anything, the optimization period has made it quicker, more performant and more smooth. The Pre3 will be more useful next month than it would have been back in February.

    But that doesn't matter, you see - because by September, it won't have any extreme features anymore. 1,4GHz will have become fairly run-of-the-mill and definitely nothing to brag about anymore, and the phone's other features speak volumes about how little HP cared to deliver an "extreme" phone in the Pre3.

    And that, you see, is the root of the problem. The Pre3 is an upper midrange business phone, but a large group of people on here doesn't want that. They want an extreme phone; a "sports phone" in a matter of speaking, a Ford GT to the Pre3's Ford Taurus (and the Veer's Ford Ka). They don't understand - or don't want to understand - that the Pre3 was never designed to be what they want, so they claim that it WAS designed to be what they want and simply fails at it, and because it's still not out on the market, it's failing some more.

    Meanwhile, those of us who just want a phone and have come to love webOS for its ease of use, ESPECIALLY those of us who actually like hardware keyboards -- you know, the Pre3's target audience? -- are looking at the calendar and thinking "summer is gonna be over in a few weeks, so the Pre3 is coming", and reading a new thread about how outdated the Pre3 will be. So yeah - how do you guys define outdated, anyway? The definition used here is "anything that isn't cutting edge high-end stuff is outdated". I'd ask to reconsider. Otherwise, by that definition, 75% of ANYTHING that gets released is outdated at the time of release. Defining anything except envelope-pushing high-end innovations as "outdated" is broken and unworkable.

    The Pre3 won't be outdated when it is released, it simply won't be an envelope-pushing high-end device. It'll be a solid midrange "business class" phone. That's just what I (and a lot of other people) want. It may not be what YOU want, but even if you're obviously well-represented on an internet smartphone forum, you should consider that you're a minority of the total populace. So are those of us in want a midrange business phone, by the way, just so you know. But the fact still remains that you want the Pre3 to be something it simply is not, and you're not judging it by what it is but by what you want it to be. This is unfair.

    Now I'm thinking that HP is going to go after the "sports phone" demographic that wants their phone to kick all their friends' phones and brag about it, but I don't have any inside information. HP may be working on something, or they may not. You have the chance to keep waiting for it, or leave and pick up whatever Android phone is brag-worthy this week (it may be superseded as the brag-worthiest handset next week and may never receive more than one software update, but nevermind: you had the chance to brag for a while, which is more than the Pre3 is going to give you).

    I really hope that HP will, at some point, release such a phone and give you guys a viable "sports phone" option. I really hope that the "stingray" prototype we've seen will be this phone, with a ultra-high-res screen and some over-the-top CPU and a bunch of features that are just in there so we can say they're in there. Sure. That would be good for the vocal sports phone demographic AND for webOS' standing in the market because that demographic is, in fact, rather large (and I'd argue actually probably larger than the small-phone Veer demographic). But we have no idea when that is going to surface and what will be in it when it does.

    But please stop putting these expectations on the Pre3 - you're not expecting it to perform in any given way, you're expecting it to actually BE something it's not, and something it was never designed to be.
    You're looking at a new romantic comedy with Meg Ryan and expecting the CG effects to AT LEAST hold up with the newest Michael Bay explosionfest. You're looking at a new station wagon and expecting the top speed to at least be above that of a Corvette.

    If you accept that the Pre3 is not meant to be a phone you whip out to make grown people stare in disbelief and young children cry in existential horror, it becomes SO MUCH EASIER to accept that it wasn't released back in February when you could have used those 1.4GHz as an excellent eCock to whip out and prove your digital superiority, and that it's only being released in August/September, when those 1.4GHz are only good for powering the phone. August becomes "summer" and on time instead of an unbearable delay.

    Yup, it's all our fault for expecting the best out of HP. For expecting its flagship phone to at least go neck and neck with the flagship phones of other manufacturers within the timeline called the present. For expecting the flagship phone to be released so we can go buy the dang thing and start using it already rather than just talking about it, which eventually turns into complaining about this phantom phone.

    You've basically summed it up as "it's not you, it's me". You've got it all wrong. It's not me, it's you (you = HP).
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMist View Post
    I do a lot of typing on screen, and the TF keyboard (no matter which one I chose) were all terribly, unbearably laggy. The browser is faster and doesn't crash. Multi tasking is no after-thought and works instinctively..

    In fact, see my blog post here..

    Why Google’s Android Honeycomb is not good enough | Bad Atheist
    ASUS released an update (still 3.1) a few weeks back that significantly improved the keyboard lag and other lag issues.

    It sounds like the android tablets are not for you. That said, most of your points on your blog post were comparing the tablet to how you preferred it to work on an android phone. Which seems odd that you would bring up talk of an android tablet (which you didn’t like) in a conversation about the WebOS phones (when presumably you did like the android phones.)

    Anyway, if you prefer WebOS now and want to wait for a Pre3, more power to you.

    -Suntan
  5. #25  
    I don't think that anyone is asking HP to push the envelope.

    Jon Rubinstein summed it up, "The reality is... we missed a product cycle last year..." The Pre 3 is the c40 to be released in 2010. The Pre 3 would have competed with iPhone 3GS, EVO 4G, Droid X, and Epic.

    Since the Pre 3 announced in February, we have watched a flood of new phones. <staff edit>

    The World War II US M1 Garand rifle was as good as any rifle from the last war. But if you came up against a German squad with new Machine Guns (basically modern assault weapons) you might have felt a bit antsi.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 07/29/2011 at 12:50 PM. Reason: You made your point with out the Android advertisement
    fmarcanojr likes this.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    I don't think that anyone is asking HP to push the envelope.

    Jon Rubinstein summed it up, "The reality is... we missed a product cycle last year..." The Pre 3 is the c40 to be released in 2010. The Pre 3 would have competed with iPhone 3GS, EVO 4G, Droid X, and Epic.

    Since the Pre 3 announced in February, we have watched a flood of new phones. <staff edit>

    The World War II US M1 Garand rifle was as good as any rifle from the last war. But if you came up against a German squad with new Machine Guns (basically modern assault weapons) you might have felt a bit antsi.
    I'll ignore that quirky thing you did when you said you didn't expect HP to push the envelope and then segued into an advertisement of Android phones that you apparently feel do push it. I just wanted to mention it.

    And I like your metaphor, except that your phone isn't a weapon, of course, and we're not at war, you see, and your choice of phone isn't going to get you killed. But you know that. Of course.

    And the whole point of this thread was for you to understand that the Pre3 isn't meant to be a world-shattering, record-breaking beast (and won't protect you when it's dark at night like I'm sure that strong machine gun, err, Android would) would but a business phone. Just look at the marketing. "Business-class email", they say. The Pre3 isn't looking at the segment of the market that wants one of the phones you're advertising, it's looking at BlackBerry users who want to jump.

    Again, I get that if you want a sports phone, and like webOS, you're angry at HP for not supplying you a sports phone when other manufacturers just crank them out. But saying the Pre3 was supposed to be released last year, against the Galaxy S? With a processor that only even got released in 2011? Please.

    So don't pretend that the smartphone market is homogenous and that the 3.6" Pre3 with its keyboard is in the same niche as a 4,6" android without a keyboard. They're completely different phones for completely different people. You're one of the people who wants one of the latter. I respect that. The Pre3 isn't meant for you then. You should respect THAT instead of pretending that the Pre3 is simply HP's attempt at world domination that comes over a year too late, because it's not. It's a business phone released in summer 2011, with specs that are really competitive for a summer 2011 business phone, and that is that.

    I really hope HP will give you a nice toy to play with, and I hope they'll announce it soon. But in the meantime, if you want to complain that HP hasn't given you one, do that instead of complaining about what a bad "superphone" the Pre3 makes... because that's simply not the market the Pre3 is playing in.

    You should consider whether you're maybe too used to seeing things from a certain perspective to even acknowledge that there ARE other perspectives. It seems like you think that if a smartphone isn't extreme in some regard or another, it shouldn't even exist. But you're only looking at a small set of high-end Android phones, completely ignoring the huge number of low-end, midrange and business-oriented Android phones on the market and the people who buy them. The market is more heterogenous than you think, and just because HP hasn't filled YOUR particular niche of the market (yet), you take a product from a different niche and bash it for not fitting yours particularly well. I just don't think that's fair.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 07/29/2011 at 12:51 PM. Reason: edited quoted text
  7. redmist's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    ASUS released an update (still 3.1) a few weeks back that significantly improved the keyboard lag and other lag issues.

    It sounds like the android tablets are not for you. That said, most of your points on your blog post were comparing the tablet to how you preferred it to work on an android phone. Which seems odd that you would bring up talk of an android tablet (which you didn’t like) in a conversation about the WebOS phones (when presumably you did like the android phones.)

    Anyway, if you prefer WebOS now and want to wait for a Pre3, more power to you.

    -Suntan
    Even with the 3.1 update, the keyboard is unbearable. Check the link I posted on my blog to a YouTYube video - that's with 3.1 installed.

    Compared to the keyboard on the TouchPad or an iPad, the ones on the Transformer are really awful.

    I didn't quite understand your second paragraph. But that's OK, I was just making a point about being seduced by the latest and greatest, instead of choosing a product which suits ME best.
    Pilot 5000 > Pre > Pre2 > Pre3 > Galaxy Nexus
    TouchPad > Galaxy Tab 8.9
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by FenrirWolf View Post
    I find it funny that people around here are afraid the general public are going to look down on the Pre 3 for not being a Galaxy Quintuple S 9000, while those in other tech-savvy communities I frequent think it looks like a nice phone and are interested to see how it turns out.
    Truth. Most of the people I work with aren't super tech savvy or at least not into phones. But one of my friends that is tech savvy and is pretty into phones recently bought one of the HTC slabs on T-Mo. I had talked to her about the Veer (never tried to talk her into it since I knew she wanted a slab phone anyways) when I got the Veer she was super into it though, not that she wanted it but she though it was cool.... best part was, my Veer is almost as thin as her slab, and with the slider open is still smaller.

    People need to stop comparing themselves to everyone else, buy what you want/need and be done with it.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMist View Post
    Even with the 3.1 update, the keyboard is unbearable. Check the link I posted on my blog to a YouTYube video - that's with 3.1 installed.
    As I said, there was an incremental update that occurred after 3.1 (but still shows up as 3.1 info the info box) that fixed the virtual-keyboard lag in the browser.

    -Suntan
  10. #30  
    I guess my issue is about pricing.

    When you price your devices along with premium products, you should expect to be rated against premium products. And even if your price is lower with respect to premium products, you have to be aware of consumer elasticity with respect to price: are they responsive to a slightly lower price? What level of decrease would turn their heads.

    So, it's not about the TouchPad being a slam dunk home run touchdown hole in one wunderkind for its own sake...it's about the fact that if HP has the audacity to claim it will have the "1+ tablet," to have a tablet priced at the same rate as the premier tablet out there, then it better have its act together.

    And the same will be true of the Pre 3. $199 seems to be a stable price point for many subsidized phones now. So, supposing that the Pre 3 is priced there, I have to ask myself whether I want a Pre 3 or any of the other superphones priced at the same rate.

    Even if I like webOS (I do), I have to ask myself, "why am I paying the same amount of money for less value?" (Since webOS devices are, unfortunately, a lesser value for most. The software offerings aren't where they need to be [I don't need millions of apps, but I do need some crucial features like doc editing.] The OS isn't where it needs to be [I don't want random reboots. I don't want system hangs. I don't want to be told that they will optimize "soon." I don't want to have to look at buttery smooth offerings from the iOS and Windows Phone sides...and Windows Phone is definitely a sore point. More apps in less time? More substantive OS updates in less times with Mango?] The hardware isn't where it needs to be either.)

    So, I think the antsiness with the Pre 3 is in recognizing that this is bad deja vu. We keep seeing this over and over again, and it doesn't feel good each time.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    You should consider whether you're maybe too used to seeing things from a certain perspective to even acknowledge that there ARE other perspectives. It seems like you think that if a smartphone isn't extreme in some regard or another, it shouldn't even exist. But you're only looking at a small set of high-end Android phones, completely ignoring the huge number of low-end, midrange and business-oriented Android phones on the market and the people who buy them. The market is more heterogenous than you think, and just because HP hasn't filled YOUR particular niche of the market (yet), you take a product from a different niche and bash it for not fitting yours particularly well. I just don't think that's fair.
    There are those of us that like the idea of WebOS but would like to see it in *much* better shape than it is in now. To us, the Pre3 as it stands today doesn’t cut it. Whether you want to complain that we are trying to make it into something it is not, a superphone, this or that; the chart speaks for itself:



    The Pre3 is one phone, released months late, and will likely not attract many customers beyond the few that still ardently sit… …and sit… …and sit waiting for it to release. Feel free to say that it “is what it was always meant to be” or that it “is being released when they said it would.” The reality is that at this point it won’t be doing great things to get WebOS where a lot of us would prefer it to be.

    You can call that antsie if you want. I call it expecting more from a 1 billion dollar outlay by one of the largest electronics makers on the planet.

    -Suntan
  12. sj4231#AC's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    I agree with most of your post, however I think general "antsiness" is rising to a fevered pitch now because there is NOTHING out of HP about the Pre 3. Look at the phones that are being announced on carriers now -- they are being announced for the September and beyond time frame. That means if HP were to announce the Pre 3 on AT&T and VZW today they would not be here until September or later. Since we have heard precious little about the Pre 3 from HP that means that a September launch on any U.S. carrier is practically non-existent.

    It's as if HP never said anything about the Pre 3 those eons ago in February and this forum is all just based on rumors and conjecture.
    +1
  13. #33  
    <<thread cleansed>>

    Please keep your posts on-topic (Pre3). Thanks
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    The Pre3 is one phone, released months late, and will likely not attract many customers beyond the few that still ardently sit… …and sit… …and sit waiting for it to release. Feel free to say that it “is what it was always meant to be” or that it “is being released when they said it would.” The reality is that at this point it won’t be doing great things to get WebOS where a lot of us would prefer it to be.

    You can call that antsie if you want. I call it expecting more from a 1 billion dollar outlay by one of the largest electronics makers on the planet.
    The Pre3 is one phone, which is on time to be released in the stated window of summer, the Veer is another phone and I think we're going to see some more phones out of HP. What you're saying would be true if the Pre3 and TouchPad were the first, last and only fruits to ever be carried by the billion-dollar investment. They won't be.

    The point is that HP can't go the Apple route and tell people what they are supposed to want. They have to offer something for everybody. Right now they're a far cry away from that, but I don't know why you are thinking it's all over. It hasn't even begun yet. HP has had full possession of webOS for roughly one year. If you expect a fully-fledged, completely hatched ready-made ecosystem after one year, yeah, I'd call that antsy. The "superphone" will come; the fact that it isn't out yet doesn't mean that there won't ever be one.

    Plus, I don't think we're going to see a hero device for webOS in the sense of one device that saves the entire platform. I think you're going to see more and more different webOS devices pop up across the board and the combination will be what sets it apart - the platform will be the hero. Kind of like in Android land.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    The Pre3 is one phone, which is on time to be released in the stated window of summer, the Veer is another phone and I think we're going to see some more phones out of HP. What you're saying would be true if the Pre3 and TouchPad were the first, last and only fruits to ever be carried by the billion-dollar investment. They won't be.

    The point is that HP can't go the Apple route and tell people what they are supposed to want. They have to offer something for everybody. Right now they're a far cry away from that, but I don't know why you are thinking it's all over. It hasn't even begun yet. HP has had full possession of webOS for roughly one year. If you expect a fully-fledged, completely hatched ready-made ecosystem after one year, yeah, I'd call that antsy. The "superphone" will come; the fact that it isn't out yet doesn't mean that there won't ever be one.

    Plus, I don't think we're going to see a hero device for webOS in the sense of one device that saves the entire platform. I think you're going to see more and more different webOS devices pop up across the board and the combination will be what sets it apart - the platform will be the hero. Kind of like in Android land.
    It doesn't sound like you even read my reply. I'm not arguing for "one superphone" to save the day. I'm pointing out the reality that there is only one phone coming out (the veer doesn't count) and it's not going to do much to move the needle in the right direction.

    As for the hope that there will be many many other WebOS phones released in short order, well I think we'd all be happy with that. I'm personally not going to be holding my breath.

    -Suntan
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