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  1.    #1  
    After reading over Rubinstein's recent interview, it seems like he's basically saying the Pre 3 won't release with the best version of WebOS on it and that they'll work in the future to have WebOS devices running the same OS. Does this mean that, out of the gate, the Pre 3 will be outdated even when compared to the TP? If so, then that sucks. I've been assuming I'll be using my 12/11 upgrade on the Pre 3, but not if it's a situation where there's a better version of WebOS that I can't have.

    How is it even possible to release a device on the same OS brand that has an older ("different" as Rubinstein called it) version of the OS than a device that was released a few months prior?

    Of course, he says they'll encourage developers to develop for the Pre 3, but why would they waste time developing for an older/"different" version of WebOS?

    I've been anxiously awaiting my upgrade on December so I can get the Pre 3, but reading that interview of his sucked a lot of the wind out of my sails.
  2. #2  
    no, because the version that is on the TouchPad is optimized for the larger screen.

    the confusion comes in whether the pre3 will be able to run Enyo apps, which are built to scale to various display sizes. If enyo apps can run on the small scale of the pre3, it would be the best possible scenario.

    i'm guessing it wouldn't (at least not right away), because many TP apps are a different app ID and have to be purchased for each device.
  3.    #3  
    Hmmm...I know Ruby tried to explain the difference in scale between the TP and Pre 3, but it just sounded like semantics to me. He seemed to get pretty defensive and elusive when asked about the Pre 3 releasing with an older version of WebOS. Won't it just make it more of a hassle for developers to develop apps separately for the TP and the Pre 3? It seems that with the TP basically being a different OS than the Pre 3, that developers will just look at them as separate entities with a smaller number of users. Howevr, if both devices ran the same OS, then you'd have a much larger number of users of the same OS, which would seem to encourage more developer support. Unless I'm just looking at this all wrong.

    If 500 people are using the Pre 3 and 500 people are using the TP and they are different versions of WebOS, then developers really only have a user base of 500 to choose from (assuming they don't develop for both). If they were the same version of WebOS, though, it'd be 1,000 users.

    I don't really understand how this all works and may be completely misunderstanding it, but wouldn't it just be simpler all around if they were the same version of WebOS?
  4. #4  
    Better question is will the Pre3 be outdated. I don't think it will be from a technical standpoint (I'd be happy to get one)

    It won't be top tier, but might be middle tier depending on when it finally get to the stores. For those of us who love the OS it will be fine. But selling against what will then be available from the likes of Samsung, Motorola, and Apple... I think they will have a big problem moving stock.

    Perception is reality and if the perception is that the device is old and underpowered compared to new offerings, it flat out will not sell in enough numbers to be successful

    Time for drastic action. If they can get them out within 30 days from today, give them away from next to nothing with a mature (relatively) webOS 2.x on them. Not for nothing, but heavily discounted to exiting users and via some promotion to new users.

    It will increase the base of Enyo capable devices, and increase the base of users for developers.

    Sure it will cost, but not nearly as much as sitting on a few million units that don't sell. Not to mention the loss of what little momentum they gained from the HP announcements and the release of the Touchpad. If they lose support this time it will likely be permanent.

    C
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    no, because the version that is on the TouchPad is optimized for the larger screen.

    the confusion comes in whether the pre3 will be able to run Enyo apps, which are built to scale to various display sizes. If enyo apps can run on the small scale of the pre3, it would be the best possible scenario.

    i'm guessing it wouldn't (at least not right away), because many TP apps are a different app ID and have to be purchased for each device.
    this is definitely the appropriate question, and the fact that we don't yet know the answers is scary. I am at least hoping that developers know the answer (and that answer is yes, they will run enyo) and just can't speak do to NDA.
    C-Note likes this.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    this is definitely the appropriate question, and the fact that we don't yet know the answers is scary. I am at least hoping that developers know the answer (and that answer is yes, they will run enyo) and just can't speak do to NDA.
    You are right, if the Pre3 can't run Enyo, and there is no other phone in the immediate future... HPALM, and anyone who likes the platform should be terrified.

    The amount of muscle and time need to dig out of that hole would prohibitive.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  7. Targon's Avatar
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    #7  
    I will try to clear this up, but keep in mind that I am not a developer, just someone with a LOT of experience with computers(I got my start on a TRS-80 model 1 back when it was new).

    First off, the OS version question. There are really two sides to the issue, the one that really matters is the development platform and APIs that are supported, and then you have the WebOS version which includes SUPPORT for the APIs in question.

    At this point, the big issue is support for Enyo, which is what you have on the Touchpad(WebOS 3.0.x), and then you have the older Mojo which is on 2.x and 1.x devices. It would be possible for HP to make an update for 1.x devices that would add Enyo support, and the latest public information indicates that Enyo will be on some version of WebOS 2(an update for the Pre 2, and Veer). I suspect that the reason there is a delay in the Pre 3 release is that HP wants the Pre 3 to launch with Enyo support, even if it will run WebOS 2.2.x or 2.3.

    Now, this uncertainty, and lack of communication from HP on the issue is why there is so much doubt. Will the Pre 3 launch with Enyo or stay with Mojo, and then have Enyo replace it with an OS update after launch? Will the Touchpad get an improved compatibility for Mojo apps, and what about those who have an older Palm branded phone, what SHOULD developers focus on?

    So, WebOS 2.x or 3.x, it doesn't matter, it's all about what developer framework is supported by the OS, and how bad will Mojo apps run under an Enyo framework on the Pre 3?
  8. #8  
    @Targon,

    I'm naive I guess, I've assumed that the ability to support the Enyo framework on all phones going forward was a given. Why in the world would they do anything else, when they have basically killed Mojo development?

    If they don't lay out a clear game plan (or worse, don't have one) for the transition to the combination Pre3/Enyo, they will deserve all of the abuse they will inevitably get. And the "boo birds" will be out if they botch this!

    C
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  9. #9  
    Yes the Pre3 will support the Enyo framework per the HP website. They also recommend that you use Enyo if you're developing new apps for the TouchPad and/or the Pre3.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
    Cantaffordit and fxspec06 like this.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Achill3s View Post
    Yes the Pre3 will support the Enyo framework per the HP website. They also recommend that you use Enyo if you're developing new apps for the TouchPad and/or the Pre3.

    Yes per their website, but according to their top manager Pre3, or any other webOS phone probably will not support Enyo for some time. That statement made lots of confusion, and I haven't heard someone from HP saying firmly and directly that this was misunderstanding, and that Enyo will for sure be supported by Pre3. They could make this clarification on developers forum, or by press release. They stayed numb.
    Do you have some new and official information to support your claim, beside months old technical sheet?
  11. #11  
    I liked Rod's response when someone pointed out the web page that said the Pre 3 would support Enyo. It was something like "like how they said the Sprint Pre would support webOS 2.0?"
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    Yes per their website, but according to their top manager Pre3, or any other webOS phone probably will not support Enyo for some time. That statement made lots of confusion, and I haven't heard someone from HP saying firmly and directly that this was misunderstanding, and that Enyo will for sure be supported by Pre3. They could make this clarification on developers forum, or by press release. They stayed numb.
    Do you have some new and official information to support your claim, beside months old technical sheet?
    Actually, my information came from the HP WebOS developers website.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  13. #13  
    Mojo or enyo, get ecosystem growing first. Without it, frameworks means little.

    At this point of time, releasing pre3 is important, equip it with mojo or enyo is not. Enyo may have this and that theoretical advantages, but it doesn't have app number counts.

    And if it can be added later, great, why wait ?
    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
    Cantaffordit and fxspec06 like this.
  14. #14  
    webOS 1.4.5 = Mojo 1.0 SDK = Pre/Pixi/Pre+/Pixi+
    webOS 2.1/2.2 = Mojo 2.0 SDK = Pre 2, Veer & Pre3
    webOS 3.0 = Enyo SDK = TouchPad, Pre 2, Veer & Pre3

    No webOS 1.x device will EVER run a webOS 2.x or webOS 3.x application, regardless of the development environment the application was coded in (Mojo or Enyo). They are entirely incompatible. That's step one.

    The webOS 2.0 Mojo based SDK can be used to code for phones or the TouchPad, though the TouchPad will run the applications in emulator mode only.

    There are no Enyo SDKs available for phones. Period. However, Palm's developer page indicates the webOS 3.0 Enyo based SDK should be used with the emulator image from webOS 2.1.

    https://developer.palm.com/content/a...3.0.0-643.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Palm Developer Website
    All webOS developers should install the webOS 3.0 SDK. Because webOS 3.0 is currently available only for the HP TouchPad, the 3.0 SDK includes only a TouchPad emulator image. If you're working on apps for phones running earlier versions of webOS, you can use the emulator images provided with previous SDK releases. These images should remain on your system when you update to the webOS 3.0 SDK, but if necessary you can download emulator images for webOS 2.1 <link>.
    The main problem I'm seeing is that I don't know if webOS 2.x devices can handle Enyo coded apps, but you would certainly think they should... Who knows though. It's a huge problem that HP is not making things clear.
    Last edited by EvilKell; 07/21/2011 at 07:54 PM.
  15. ijip's Avatar
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    #15  
    they are not clear about it simply because they havent gotten it to work so far =\. it seems they have made another excutive decision after announcing something to the contrary. again....
    Want to help design and write an app?
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    THANKS~!!
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Achill3s View Post
    Actually, my information came from the HP WebOS developers website.
    Good, than, if it's undoubtedly clear and direct statement that Enyo is coming to phones, lets put it on main page as article, and finish this guessing.
  17. #17  
    Wasn't 2.3 supposed to be the update that lets phones use the Enyo framework?

    BTW, this thread is a great reason not to jump to Android because ALL Android phones on the market now are outdated, running Android 2.x instead of 3.x. Outdated and obsolete the day they were released, with no update on the horizon, not even in the coming months! HUGE FAIL, huh? Especially when you consider what an epic fail it was for HP not to bring the Pre Minus to 2.0 and how few Android phones that get released with x.y actually get updated to more than x.(y+2). That's just a sad joke, isn't it? Definitely would be if it was HP doing it.
  18. #18  
    @OP
    Pre3 will be released with newest webOS version for smartphones for sure. In his interview JR confirmed two lines of firmwares. So officaly HP took separate roads for tablet OS and Phone OS. Main question is would both OSes support same framework.


    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    BTW, this thread is a great reason not to jump to Android because ALL Android phones on the market now are outdated, running Android 2.x instead of 3.x. Outdated and obsolete the day they were released, with no update on the horizon, not even in the coming months! HUGE FAIL, huh? Especially when you consider what an epic fail it was for HP not to bring the Pre Minus to 2.0 and how few Android phones that get released with x.y actually get updated to more than x.(y+2). That's just a sad joke, isn't it? Definitely would be if it was HP doing it.
    Would some android phone would be upgraded to next version of OS is up to phone manufacturers and not up to Google. Choice of components is up to manufacturer and not up to Google. In most cases phones are upgradable, but manufacturer doesn't want to assign resources for upgrade process.

    With webOS on legacy fiasco was whole different thing.
    1. From mid 2009 Palm announced better performance.
    2. Palm promised flash to come in future upgrades
    3. in 2010 Palm promised 2.0 for legacy devices with css hardware acceleration and flash.
    It was not hinted. It was directly promised by manufacturer. Promises was repeated for months. Then, development is abandoned in 2011. So, where you did find analogy with Android?
  19. #19  
    Guys, the Pre3 Mojo-Enyo debate was beaten to death in another thread. Let's not re-litigate it here. Thanks.
  20.    #20  
    Wow, so after reading all the responses, I'm more confused than I was at the start. So will the Pre3 release with the latest version of WebOS or not?
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