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  1. #21  
    Whereas I am only near wifi in the evenings. I spend all day out of wifi range, pretty much every day.

    It's definitely worth each person checking his own usage to see what's worth paying for.
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rei VI View Post
    I was actually told the standards for 4G had been revised. Hadn't actually looked into it so i couldn't really say, but HSPA+ is considered 4G.

    Here is the quickest article i could find. I only briefly viewed it.
    ITU Redefines 4G. Again. | News & Opinion | PCMag.com
    There are really several ways to look at it. From the pure "generation of protocol", HSPA+ is an upgraded evolution of the "GSM" 3G protocols. So just because it can hit "4G speeds" does not make it 4G. LTE on the other hand is a new generation protocol, and as such, it deserves the title of 4G.

    The initial way to look at HSPA+ was "4G speeds", but then marketing people bribed the standards boards to let HSPA+ be CALLED 4G. Then again, LTE wasn't even initially classified as 4G because it wasn't fast enough.

    I look more at architectures when it comes to generations, and if you can tweak an older design to be faster, it's still an older design, no matter how fast it may go.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    Perhaps I am. I "chatted" with a representative, who quoted that I'd have to pay $85 + taxes, but looking at the websites it looks like I can do it cheaper.

    Cheapest plans that will meet my needs are:
    (According to recent phone bills, I use a little over a gig of data each month, about 40 minutes of talk time, and usually no text messages, max of 6 in a month.)

    Sprint: $70 Simply everything plan + $10 smartphone fee = $80

    AT&T: $40 for phone + $25 for 2gb data = $65 + trivial amounts for per-unit text messages and $10 if I wanted navigation, which I would like, but not for $10/month.

    Verizon: $40 for phone + $30 for 2gb of data + trivial amounts for per-unit text messges and assorted little fees because Verizon nickels and dimes its customers = $70
    Sprint's unlimited everything should not be taken too lightly. I had a friend bark at me b/c I had sent him text msgs after his 200 text allotment for the month was all used up. He said he texted me about not texting him using his google voice account (which I didn't get)... and he had to hold out 9 more days until his account reset for the new month. The point here is what ppl go through and how that affects others b/c you don't have unlimited everything. It's annoying that when I text my non-sprint friends, I have to be concerned about some not having unlimited text, and that I would combine texts into one that I'd otherwise just send out like an IM chat... Or how someone may not even respond to your text to preserve their allotment, which then just becomes rude. And this is just text. Now throw in the unlimited vs limited data element.

    However, all of this is moot if Pre3 isn't coming to Sprint...
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Targon View Post
    There are really several ways to look at it. From the pure "generation of protocol", HSPA+ is an upgraded evolution of the "GSM" 3G protocols. So just because it can hit "4G speeds" does not make it 4G. LTE on the other hand is a new generation protocol, and as such, it deserves the title of 4G.

    The initial way to look at HSPA+ was "4G speeds", but then marketing people bribed the standards boards to let HSPA+ be CALLED 4G. Then again, LTE wasn't even initially classified as 4G because it wasn't fast enough.

    I look more at architectures when it comes to generations, and if you can tweak an older design to be faster, it's still an older design, no matter how fast it may go.
    While i know your right, they caved to US Advertising, bribed, whatever way you want to look at it.
    The standards got lowered for 4G. Even if its a tweaked version of older technology.

    Makes more sense to me to have actuality and marketing be the same thing rather than trying to disprove one or the other.
    Current: Palm Pre 2
    History: [Palm] Pre Plus - [IOS] iPhone 3GS, iPhone 3G - [Blackberry] Pearl 8120, Storm 9530, Bold 9000, Bold 9700, Torch 9800 - [WP7] HTC HD7S - [WM] HTC Fuze - [Android] HTC Aria
  5. #25  
    In the end, isnt it the user ecperience that matters?

    When it comes to "4G", 2 factors come into play: speed and battery life.

    In case you havent been monitoring, the speeds are pretty good for LTE, but, battery life has been likened to sucking water through a very wide straw when using it.

    On the other hand, if you are using T-Mobile's HSDPA++, you can get "4g" similar speeds at the battery consumption cost of a 3G radio, but, its the 3G radio that's doing this work, and not an LTE radio.

    At some point, consumers will backlash against the battery life and extra "4G" costs, and the carriers and device manufacturers will respond accordingly.. right now, its still the honeymoon stage, where everyone wants the latest and greatest, even if it doesnt suit them or their budget well.

    If HP releases a LTE or WiMax ready "4G" Pre3, I hope that they are smart enough to have a feature to turn off the 4G radio and use a 3G radio, instead; if on the other hand, they are just talking about 4G speeds on ATT or T-Mobile (I know, Im totally reaching here!), then that's a different story, and maybe a much wiser move.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

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    #26  
    New technologies always use more power for the early versions, and then improve. For AT&T, I don't think the LTE network has been officially launched yet, so 4G is going to be HSPA+.

    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    In the end, isnt it the user ecperience that matters?

    When it comes to "4G", 2 factors come into play: speed and battery life.

    In case you havent been monitoring, the speeds are pretty good for LTE, but, battery life has been likened to sucking water through a very wide straw when using it.

    On the other hand, if you are using T-Mobile's HSDPA++, you can get "4g" similar speeds at the battery consumption cost of a 3G radio, but, its the 3G radio that's doing this work, and not an LTE radio.

    At some point, consumers will backlash against the battery life and extra "4G" costs, and the carriers and device manufacturers will respond accordingly.. right now, its still the honeymoon stage, where everyone wants the latest and greatest, even if it doesnt suit them or their budget well.

    If HP releases a LTE or WiMax ready "4G" Pre3, I hope that they are smart enough to have a feature to turn off the 4G radio and use a 3G radio, instead; if on the other hand, they are just talking about 4G speeds on ATT or T-Mobile (I know, Im totally reaching here!), then that's a different story, and maybe a much wiser move.

  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Targon View Post
    New technologies always use more power for the early versions, and then improve. For AT&T, I don't think the LTE network has been officially launched yet, so 4G is going to be HSPA+.
    True, however, the LTE radios DO reuquire much more power, period, and even after redesigned and optimized, will require much larger batteries to sustain a normal 6 - 8 hour usage day.

    As for ATT - you are correct, they havent officially begun their LTE rollout.. its HSPA+ at 21 mbs (and NOT the HSPA++ that T-Mobile has at 42mbs).
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    True, however, the LTE radios DO reuquire much more power, period, and even after redesigned and optimized, will require much larger batteries to sustain a normal 6 - 8 hour usage day.

    As for ATT - you are correct, they havent officially begun their LTE rollout.. its HSPA+ at 21 mbs (and NOT the HSPA++ that T-Mobile has at 42mbs).
    Yea, but once you hit 2GB on T-mobile, your speed gets cut way way down, so 42mbps is a bad idea, unless you want to risk going through your 2GB in one day.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Targon View Post
    Yea, but once you hit 2GB on T-mobile, your speed gets cut way way down, so 42mbps is a bad idea, unless you want to risk going through your 2GB in one day.
    Well, actually, it depends on the plan you chose - they have 5 and 10 gig options, too

    And, then they only go down to HSDA speeds, which are what? 5 - 7 mps???

    Most people can live with that, especially if there is wifi to fill in when available.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  10. #30  
    im actually starting to buy into the idea that the Pre 3 might be undergoing some hardware changes. I feel like at this point HP might have actually started selling unlocked devices or reaching out to devs with a certain developer version of the phone.

    the long delay with no news at least gives some credibility to the idea that it could be getting some changes.
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by alphonsocino View Post
    im actually starting to buy into the idea that the Pre 3 might be undergoing some hardware changes. I feel like at this point HP might have actually started selling unlocked devices or reaching out to devs with a certain developer version of the phone.

    the long delay with no news at least gives some credibility to the idea that it could be getting some changes.
    One possibility is that HP gave up on Enyo on WebOS 2.x, so is just getting 3.0 ready for the Pre 3. I just wish that HP would talk to us and just say what is causing the delay. If they release an unlocked phone for example, that would show that the carriers are at fault, while no release at all implies that HP is at fault in some way, shape, or form.

    I am a big fan of placing blame on the ones at fault, so at this point, I feel it is HP that is just screwing around while they push the Touchpad, without a top-end phone to anchor in terms of sales. I was actually interested in buying a Touchpad due to the whole Touch to Share concept, and the lack of the Pre 3 has just made me think about it and say, "Nope, I have better uses for my money when HP can't even release a phone that SHOULD have been ready to go in February.
    Tikkanen likes this.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Targon View Post
    One possibility is that HP gave up on Enyo on WebOS 2.x, so is just getting 3.0 ready for the Pre 3. I just wish that HP would talk to us and just say what is causing the delay. If they release an unlocked phone for example, that would show that the carriers are at fault, while no release at all implies that HP is at fault in some way, shape, or form.

    I am a big fan of placing blame on the ones at fault, so at this point, I feel it is HP that is just screwing around while they push the Touchpad, without a top-end phone to anchor in terms of sales. I was actually interested in buying a Touchpad due to the whole Touch to Share concept, and the lack of the Pre 3 has just made me think about it and say, "Nope, I have better uses for my money when HP can't even release a phone that SHOULD have been ready to go in February.

    i think rubenstein has flat out said just recently that the Pre3 will not be running 3.0
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by alphonsocino View Post
    i think rubenstein has flat out said just recently that the Pre3 will not be running 3.0
    He also said it would be sold in the coming months in some form, and nothing so far. Considering his track record on reality living up to what he has said, I wouldn't believe anything he has said at this point.
  14. #34  
    It's important to remember that there is no delay, just impatience on the internet. The Pre3 was always going to be released in "Summer". Looks like it's going to be August.

    webOS 3 != Enyo support. The Pre3 may never get webOS 3, but so what if it can still run Enyo apps? That's what's important for future-proofing. Being able to run new apps.
    Plus, I don't see Android people howling over only ever getting updated by one decimal point, possibly two if it's a flagship phone. And phones won't get Android 3.X either.
    Cantaffordit likes this.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    It's important to remember that there is no delay, just impatience on the internet. The Pre3 was always going to be released in "Summer". Looks like it's going to be August.

    webOS 3 != Enyo support. The Pre3 may never get webOS 3, but so what if it can still run Enyo apps? That's what's important for future-proofing. Being able to run new apps.
    Plus, I don't see Android people howling over only ever getting updated by one decimal point, possibly two if it's a flagship phone. And phones won't get Android 3.X either.
    Many people always complain about Android and its fragmentation problem (most apps are compatible with the different OS versions). But fragmentation with Webos is okay, as long the Pre 3 supports the enyo framework?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    Many people always complain about Android and its fragmentation problem (most apps are compatible with the different OS versions). But fragmentation with Webos is okay, as long the Pre 3 supports the enyo framework?
    Uh, yeah, because as long as the Pre3 and Veer support Enyo, there IS NO fragmentation. The problem with fragmentation on Android isn't the mere fact that there are multiple concurrent version numbers; the problem is the resulting fact that programs made for a certain version number and a certain hardware setup often end up not working for phones running a different version number or hardware setup. A Motorola Xoom app won't run on your Droid 2.

    If the Pre3 runs webOS 2.3 but is able to run any new app to be released in the future because it supports Enyo and Enyo scales across different screen sizes, I fail to see the problem with it not running webOS 3. webOS 2 and 3 devices can then simply make use of the same apps after they have been coded once. Developers can give users the option of buying a phone-only, tablet-only, or multi-device license for ONE AND THE SAME APP. Once everything is in place, webOS fragmentation is fragmentation in name only. Communities, for example, will run on your Touchpad as well as your Pre3.
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