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  1. #41  
    If this is a carrier delay, at what point does HP give up and move on to the next device to try and entice the carriers? How is the Pre3 going to sell next to an iPhone 5 and new Ice Cream Sandwich phones? Yes i agree that it is about the experience, but people arent going to even want to try the experience if it is sitting next to an iPhone 5 and any dual core, AMOLED+ screened Androids.

    I assume that if Sprint says they dont want the Pre3, HP will ask what they do want. They better be hard at work on that phone.

    I really think HP should partner with Samsung (not license, but work together) for its future mobile products. Samsung is putting out nice hardware and getting wrapped up in patent battles with Apple. They could use HP's patents and supply webOS will processors and beautiful screens.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by T3CK View Post
    I totally agree... plus from reading on frontpage it looks like Pre3 is delayed for fall.
    I'm not sure if you agree now, I edited because I goofed in my response.

    What I meant was that pre3 applies to a much larger market then the Veer. Pre3 is a full fledged device with a larger screen, better processor, larger keyboard, no ****ing adapters to carry, plus a larger user base that wants Pre3, NOT a Veer.

    Veer on the other hand satisfies a niche market. Those that prefer their phones to be well, tiny.

    They would have done much better in my opinion putting their resources towards getting out the Pre3 and putting the Veer on the back burner for now.

    Not a lot happened in the phone market during May-June, not atleast in my opinion. No mega phone from samsung (i.e Galaxy S II), nothing from Apple. Just refreshes from HTC and the like. Would have been perfect time to launch the Pre3. Not to mention, just a month later you have the touchpad, the perfect companion to the already released Pre3.

    I dunno, but every day that goes by and I see how HP is treating WebOS, I get worried. Part of thinks that HP feels the same, thus the licensing rumors.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    US carriers heavily subsidize the cost of hand sets by locking their customers into contracts. If the phone turns out to be a total piece of junk, it makes the carrier look really bad and it makes the customer much more likely to leave.
    I never bought into that subsidize part. The truth is, the carriers "subsidize" into the phone by charging exorbitant retail monthly rates. So in reality, you don't pay upfront, but really you're paying for the phone with a higher monthly plan.

    Try calling in with no contract on hand or activating your phone through smaller resellers, you get access to retention and discount plans, but me those are the real plans. If you do the math, it's cheaper to get these plans and pay the full price of a phone, than to get a phone on contract. Many people actually don't realize that and buy into these ridiculous contracts, simply because they don't want to pay upfront. In Canada we got so deep into this bull****, we have 3 YEAR contracts.

    If the 3 year contract I signed for the Pre was really to cover the cost of the handset, then it's a horrid deal. My ETF is somewhere near $800 (the base ETF and a data ETF), and the phone back then was already retailing at around $499. The only reason I signed the contract was because they offered a discount on my monthly plan. Without it I wouldnt've bought my Pre and switched to Bell.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  4. T3CK's Avatar
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    #44  
    I agree that the original Palm strategy was proper: release the big gun first (Pre3), then get the NewPixi (aka Veer) out, to push additional markets.

    But look what HP did: they released a phone that 99% of the current users don't want it (they want Pre) and on top of that they push a half-baked tablet, with ZERO horizon when Pre3 is to surface. Wait, is scheduled for late Fall, LOL. On top of that, HP has scheduled a new white 64GB tabled in 2-3months? ***, what about the users who just got the 32GB? They just got screwed royally.

    Many people purchased Veer just to have a new toy that let them go through the Pre3 waiting period. It looks like they will be stuck with that phone for a while. By then, Pre4 will be scheduled to be released, heh.

    Sorry HP, but it looks like you don't want my money so I guess Samsung will get it instead, next the other 3million units sold in only 55 days.
    Last edited by T3CK; 07/05/2011 at 09:05 PM.
    Floren Munteanu
    why queued - My blog
  5. sj4231#AC's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Riboflavin View Post
    If this is a carrier delay, at what point does HP give up and move on to the next device to try and entice the carriers? How is the Pre3 going to sell next to an iPhone 5 and new Ice Cream Sandwich phones? Yes i agree that it is about the experience, but people arent going to even want to try the experience if it is sitting next to an iPhone 5 and any dual core, AMOLED+ screened Androids.

    I assume that if Sprint says they dont want the Pre3, HP will ask what they do want. They better be hard at work on that phone.

    I really think HP should partner with Samsung (not license, but work together) for its future mobile products. Samsung is putting out nice hardware and getting wrapped up in patent battles with Apple. They could use HP's patents and supply webOS will processors and beautiful screens.
    +1
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    I never bought into that subsidize part. The truth is, the carriers "subsidize" into the phone by charging exorbitant retail monthly rates. So in reality, you don't pay upfront, but really you're paying for the phone with a higher monthly plan.

    Try calling in with no contract on hand or activating your phone through smaller resellers, you get access to retention and discount plans, but me those are the real plans. If you do the math, it's cheaper to get these plans and pay the full price of a phone, than to get a phone on contract. Many people actually don't realize that and buy into these ridiculous contracts, simply because they don't want to pay upfront. In Canada we got so deep into this bull****, we have 3 YEAR contracts.

    If the 3 year contract I signed for the Pre was really to cover the cost of the handset, then it's a horrid deal. My ETF is somewhere near $800 (the base ETF and a data ETF), and the phone back then was already retailing at around $499. The only reason I signed the contract was because they offered a discount on my monthly plan. Without it I wouldnt've bought my Pre and switched to Bell.
    I bought my Pre at Sprint for $199 after rebate. The early termination fee is pro-rated at $200. The phone cost $499 without subsidizing. If I would have canceled in month 2, I would have been ahead nearly $100. There's something to be said for the amortization of costs, btw. It costs carriers money up front (they lose money initially) in order to keep you under contract. Sure, the carrier might make money on the subsidy over the course of 1 or 2 years, but the risk from the up front costs have to be paid for somehow.

    I have done the out of contract carrier blackmail thing before. It's how I got my plan prior to the Pre, but I don't see how I could have saved $300 in lower monthly charges over 2 years when I was already on a $69.99 plan.

    I realize the idea is to make the carriers into evil, bloodsucking corporations, but overcoming hundreds of dollars of subsidy via threatening to leave just isn't gonna get you a better deal these days, IMHO.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    I bought my Pre at Sprint for $199 after rebate. The early termination fee is pro-rated at $200. The phone cost $499 without subsidizing. If I would have canceled in month 2, I would have been ahead nearly $100. There's something to be said for the amortization of costs, btw. It costs carriers money up front (they lose money initially) in order to keep you under contract. Sure, the carrier might make money on the subsidy over the course of 1 or 2 years, but the risk from the up front costs have to be paid for somehow.

    I have done the out of contract carrier blackmail thing before. It's how I got my plan prior to the Pre, but I don't see how I could have saved $300 in lower monthly charges over 2 years when I was already on a $69.99 plan.

    I realize the idea is to make the carriers into evil, bloodsucking corporations, but overcoming hundreds of dollars of subsidy via threatening to leave just isn't gonna get you a better deal these days, IMHO.
    In US maybe not, simply because the carriers KNOW you won't leave. In Canada the new entrants have really made a difference. With 5 major carriers (sorry Public Mobile, I never considered you ever have a chance deciding to go with CDMA) fighting for business, that's what competition brings.

    The Big 3 here keeps saying they don't care about the new entrants, but the reality is they are making a dent to them. There are even signs of the carriers shying away from 3-year contracts on some phones. That's a start.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
    Cyberiian likes this.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    I bought my Pre at Sprint for $199 after rebate. The early termination fee is pro-rated at $200. The phone cost $499 without subsidizing. If I would have canceled in month 2, I would have been ahead nearly $100.
    Are you sure you get to keep the phone if you terminate early? That seems madness at that low termination fee rate!

    In the UK, termination fees are equal to the remaining number of months fees, often plus a little extra for admin. In my case I got a Pre- for £100 plus an 18 month contract at £30 a month. If I had terminated in any month of that period my total cost would have been at least £640. Factor in about £10 a month for service charges (what I am paying now with minimal inclusive minutes and unlimited data) that means I paid £460 for the phone. Not cheap by any means but doing the maths helps you work out the true cost. Needless to say I will be buying off contract when the Pre3 comes out unless some amazing offer is made.
  9. Andreas's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by T3CK View Post
    I agree that the original Palm strategy was proper: release the big gun first (Pre3), then get the NewPixi (aka Veer) out, to push additional markets.

    But look what HP did: they released a phone that 99% of the current users don't want it (they want Pre) and on top of that they push a half-baked tablet, with ZERO horizon when Pre3 is to surface. Wait, is scheduled for late Fall, LOL. On top of that, HP has scheduled a new white 64GB tabled in 2-3months? ***, what about the users who just got the 32GB? They just got screwed royally.

    Many people purchased Veer just to have a new toy that let them go through the Pre3 waiting period. It looks like they will be stuck with that phone for a while. By then, Pre4 will be scheduled to be released, heh.

    Sorry HP, but it looks like you don't want my money so I guess Samsung will get it instead, next the other 3million units sold in only 55 days.
    Must be some strange reasoning behind HP's strategy, as you say, dish them out as fast as possible. That way the early adopters are carrying modern devices and can actually help with marketing and sales.

    I get questions about my Pre but I can't tell them to buy it cause its old and outdated. Delay the launch of the Pre3 even longer and the situation will be similar. Not exactly as bad as the Pre since the Pre3 packs nice hardware but every device has a life cycle and the longer you wait with launch the more competition you will get, hence making it harder to sell your product.

    Imagine if we all had Pre3 and Veer's and HP sold it unlocked, how easy it would be to get more sales. Instead we have to tell those interested in our devices that its a 2 year old phone but there will be new models out...sometime?
    Last edited by Andreas; 07/06/2011 at 06:15 AM.
    Treo 180 270 600 650 Centro Pre Pr3 tPad tPad4G
  10. T3CK's Avatar
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    #50  
    I think HP will do exactly what they plan to do with the white tablet, release another Pre (Pre4) withing few months, with better specs. If that is the case, I would be furious, as I just spent at least $400 for a device that 3 months later is outdated.

    Don't get me wrong, I think WebOS is a great product and I hate not to be able to own a Pre3 now. But as you said so well, technology advances and you cannot wait forever like I saw some people plan to do. The fact that Samsung sold over 3mil Galaxy S2 phones in less than 2 months should tell everything... and that phone is really expensive.
    Floren Munteanu
    why queued - My blog
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by T3CK View Post
    I think HP will do exactly what they plan to do with the white tablet, release another Pre (Pre4) withing few months, with better specs. If that is the case, I would be furious, as I just spent at least $400 for a device that 3 months later is outdated.

    Don't get me wrong, I think WebOS is a great product and I hate not to be able to own a Pre3 now. But as you said so well, technology advances and you cannot wait forever like I saw some people plan to do. The fact that Samsung sold over 3mil Galaxy S2 phones in less than 2 months should tell everything... and that phone is really expensive.
    Remember back then when Steve Jobs said you should be replacing your iPod once a year? Leo probably wants to one up that and you should be replacing your phone every 2 months.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  12. #52  
    I just looked into what it would cost to buy out the remaining 18 months of contract on my Pre..... $380...roughly $21/month.....a little on the brutal side. Then if I want a new phone, I get 14 days or 30 minutes talk time, whichever comes first....what a deal

    You people down south got it good when it comes to phones!
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2¢ about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by andyhurley View Post
    Are you sure you get to keep the phone if you terminate early? That seems madness at that low termination fee rate!...
    You keep the phone. The phone is useless without service, and Sprint knows you can't take that phone and activate it on any other network (CDMA no GSM card) so the phone becomes a $199+$200 = $399 brick. Chances are, you stick with Sprint.

    Verizon artificially increases the expense of a phone. Say the GSM version of the phone costs $449. The Verizon version will cost $599. Verizon's early termination fee is also inflated to $350 with a crappy $10/mo pro rating to make sure if somebody terminates, Verizon gets their money.

    AT&T's early termination fee is $325 with a crappy $10/mo pro-rating, but I don't believe the unlocked versions of the phones are marked up like Verizon.
  14. #54  
    I started thinking about jumping ship from Sprint to Verizon for Pre 3 goodness paired with a Touchpad until I read earlier that Verizon is now ending it's unlimited plans. If it's not one barrier that gets in the way of phone/webOS satisfaction, then another just gets right in your face
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    #55  
    I think carriers may be the best bet. And its unfortunante because its likely due to the carriers judging WebOS based on the sales and backing of Palm while they have a much better backing now.

    With that said, I truly hope they spec bump if they're running that long in announcing it. I was an ardent supporter of the Pre3 when it was announced and while I wanted it to be more spec heavy as well I defended it against those claiming it was already out dated and had specs that were a "year old".

    However, that was when it was thought to be coming out in the June time frame. If we're not seeing it by September or October then it becomes a much larger issue and those mid-range to high end specs previously become low to mid.

    HP shouldn't have less of a footprint then Samsung, who entirely redesigned a tablet in a few months time. They should definitely be able to upgrade the specs of the Pre3 by the time of launch. Will they? I honestly don't know, but if they don't then I see it being a hard road for them to go down in both getting carrier adoption and then consumer adoption.

    This presents a possible slippery slope for them. If they don't bump the specs but get on a carrier it may cost them significantly in sells. If it costs them significantly in sells carriers will be upset. If carriers are upset they're less likely to take the next phone. And on and on...

    I hope HP does this right as I'm anxiously awaiting the Pre3 as my potential next phone.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by T3CK View Post
    release another Pre (Pre4) withing few months, with better specs. If that is the case, I would be furious, as I just spent at least $400 for a device that 3 months later is outdated.
    Although I can understand this thought process, really, this is what HP should be doing.

    Moto doesn’t sit on one or two phone releases every 6 to 9 months. Neither do any of the other big name makers. The phone hardware world is updating so fast that they have to keep pumping out newer hardware each month.

    Yeah, it stings when you see your 2 month old gadget get trounced by the newest flavor, but at the same time, you shouldn’t have to be sitting on a new 2 yr contract renewal for 6 months waiting for the device maker to finally release a phone that is a marked step up from the one that just ran you through your last contract.

    -Suntan
  17. #57  
    Wasn't the Pre originally supposed to be a 3g device? My thoughts are that if this is their flagship device, they should be making it 4g, which might be reason for the delay. Given their competition, it certainly should be a 4g device.
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh4Sh0 View Post
    Wasn't the Pre originally supposed to be a 3g device? My thoughts are that if this is their flagship device, they should be making it 4g, which might be reason for the delay. Given their competition, it certainly should be a 4g device.
    having just picked up a thunderbolt, i agree. lte speeds in my area rival my cable modem. lte makes 3g feel like 1x.
  19. #59  
    I hedged my bets, went to Best Buy and bought a Samsung Fascinate on Verizon 2 days ago and locked in unlimited data, hoping and believing they will be one of, if not the first to the dance with the Pre 3. It only cost $49.99 and other than the usual frustration of trying to navigate Android it's actually a very nice phone. I'm still using my Pre- on Sprint until the Pre 3 lands on Verizon but I will drop them in a heartbeat for not picking up the Pre 3....well, they're getting it but according to my source (go ahead, flame away...I don't care. He owns 7 franchises and hasn't let me down before) it won't be until January. He told me this knowing I've been a Sprint customer of his for 10 years and I'd already told him I'm leaving if they don't announce a webOS device by the end of June. The BB deal is pretty decent as you can get the buy-back plan for $30 and any time within 6 months you can return the phone you bought for 50% credit of it's MSRP toward any other phone at MSRP. Since the Fascinate is $599.99 and the Pre 3 will most likely be the same it's going to cost me $300, but I'll have the same deal on that phone so if HP gets their **** together and launches an even better device within the next six months I can always upgrade again. If you upgrade within 7-12 months you still get 40% so if you're willing to pay a little more to insure you have an up to date device this is a decent option IMO.
    If "If's" and "But's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!


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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh4Sh0 View Post
    Wasn't the Pre originally supposed to be a 3g device? My thoughts are that if this is their flagship device, they should be making it 4g, which might be reason for the delay. Given their competition, it certainly should be a 4g device.
    AT&T calls HSPA+ 4G...stupid misleading crap since HSPA+ is really a 3G technology that can get speeds close to the INITIAL LTE speeds. Still, what would be nice would be if HP were to sell replacement comm boards for the Pre 3 that would add LTE support to an existing phone.
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