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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by tasogare View Post
    Except when the answer is cache size, bus speed, memory leakage, processing power, or a bevy of other things.

    You sound like those doctors who prescribe antibiotics for everything.
    Yeah, but HP isn't designing their own SoCs. They can't increase the Pre 3's L2 cache or bus speed as cheaply as they could double the RAM in it.
  2. #82  
    honestly this is all very interesting but irrelivant.

    1. No one here has used a pre3. The rants that are being posted here are crazy. It's like writing a review on the accuracy of a gun you have never held, fired, or even seen in person. All the rants about how great or horrible the pre3 is are irrelivant.

    2. 512 RAM isn't enought?
    A. Consisdering how many apps there are for webos is that really relivant.
    B. If they gave you a gig of RAM you would complain about how horrible battery life will be...someday when you are actually using a pre3
    C. Yes again, someday when 1gig could be useful rather then just a battery killer they can alway rerelease pre3 as a plus

    I took some time and played with a veer today. I would call it butter smooth. The only way you can call that new HP device outdated is if all you have done is read some specs.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xethur View Post
    honestly this is all very interesting but irrelivant.

    1. No one here has used a pre3. The rants that are being posted here are crazy. It's like writing a review on the accuracy of a gun you have never held, fired, or even seen in person. All the rants about how great or horrible the pre3 is are irrelivant.

    2. 512 RAM isn't enought?
    A. Consisdering how many apps there are for webos is that really relivant.
    B. If they gave you a gig of RAM you would complain about how horrible battery life will be...someday when you are actually using a pre3
    C. Yes again, someday when 1gig could be useful rather then just a battery killer they can alway rerelease pre3 as a plus

    I took some time and played with a veer today. I would call it butter smooth. The only way you can call that new HP device outdated is if all you have done is read some specs.
    I don't think RAM kills the battery. That would be the CPU.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    iOS is a different beast in that it manages memory more efficiently than webOS does. I wouldn't say I've had problems stemming from the phone only having 512MB of RAM but more RAM means I'd be able to have more apps active in memory. That would shave off a few minutes spent on waiting for apps to load.

    I think iOS still has a limit of 128MB for each process too. That's a concession to all the millions of iPhone 3GS' Apple needs to support but, as a gamer, I'd like to see that limit bumped up.

    Really, when it comes to computing, more RAM is always the answer.
    The Atrix has 1GB of Ram and it's already in the bargain basement price of 24 bucks with Bell Mobility Canada, meanwhile the 512MB iphone4 is 159 bucks for the same contract terms. This already proves that Ram is only a part of the equation.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    I don't think RAM kills the battery. That would be the CPU.
    actually, ram is volitile and requires power to remain in state, so ram actually does consume power.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    actually, ram is volitile and requires power to remain in state, so ram actually does consume power.
    Care to provide a link, because everywhere I have been checking, it says more RAM doesn't decrease battery life.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    Care to provide a link, because everywhere I have been checking, it says more RAM doesn't decrease battery life.
    first, pull the battery out of your phone, and then put it back in and start (power up) your phone...

    if it didn't use power, you wouldn't have to watch webOS booot up and you wouldn't have to restart apps after turning the phone back on. But since you asked:
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatile_memory
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    first, pull the battery out of your phone, and then put it back in and start (power up) your phone...

    if it didn't use power, you wouldn't have to watch webOS booot up and you wouldn't have to restart apps after turning the phone back on. But since you asked:
    Volatile memory
    I think you may have gotten my statement a mixed up, or I probably wasn't clear.

    What I was trying to say is having more RAM doesn't mean the battery will go dead faster than a device with a lower amount of RAM.
  9. #89  
    I think the power consumption for LPDDR2 is pretty negligible at this point. Mobile RAM uses a lot of cool self-refresh tricks to maximize battery life.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by hagster View Post
    Are we playing top trumps. You can't just pull out the standout figures from different handsets and expect the Pre 3 to win at everything. Making a good phone is about careful trade offs. If you put a more pokey chip and bigger screen in it you need to have a bigger battery, hence bigger phone and probably have to loose the keyboard to keep it manageable. That's fine, but the result is a totally different phone form factor(i.e 4inch slab). Would you argue the Veer needs a 3D screen and 1930mAh battery, no, because it wouldn't be a small smartphone anymore. The Veer may not be for you (or me), but it can't be everything.

    The DPI on the Pre 3 screen is only slightly lower than the Atrix.
    Who needs dual 5MP cameras?
    I don't want a 3D phone, and I suspect very few people do.
    16GB storage is more than enough for most people.
    iPhone5 - How can you compare it to an unannounced product. That makes no sense.
    The Qualcomm MSM8x55 chip is one of the very latest chips. BTW.
    512Mb RAM may be old news, but I have never once run out of RAM on my Pre2. What is it that you want to do that requires more?

    I do appreciate the pent up demand for a slab phone for a certain group of users. That's a perfectly request and I hope HP will step up and deliver that for you. The Pre 3 is not and was never intended to be that phone.

    If you cant see a reason to get the Pre 3 over the Pre 2, get the Pre 2. If you want to see more apps, get an iPhone or Android. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice. If you want to have the best OS out there, your going to have to compromise.
    What he said...

    And the only things I see that poke out are:

    Motorola Atrix:
    -Slower Dualcore processor
    -Slightly better screen

    The HTC Sense: (BTW it isn't the HTC Sense, its HTC Sensation)
    -slower dual core processor
    -for the 1080p camera, it seems good on paper but if you have looked at any of the video trials on YouTube it SUCKS. The audio is like an old radio that is being blasted through another rerecorded old radio. I cringe every time I watch it.

    LG Optimus 3D and HTC Evo 3D:
    -3D screen..... I don't see a purpose for 3D. Its a gimmick that is predated (meaning it come out before it should have).
    -dual 5MP cameras

    Nokia N8:
    -12MP camera

    iPhone 5:
    -.......really? How can you argue the Pre3 is outdated with an unannounced device?
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  11. Targon's Avatar
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    I think you may have gotten my statement a mixed up, or I probably wasn't clear.

    What I was trying to say is having more RAM doesn't mean the battery will go dead faster than a device with a lower amount of RAM.
    More RAM DOES draw more power, but compared to the CPU/GPU it is fairly insignificant. Basically, in any circuit, the more pathways the electric current has to go through, the more draw there will be, but good design can limit the effect. Look at what happens when you put an extra cable splitter into ANY room in your house. While there will be less of an effect on the other side of the main splitter in the house, there WILL be a tiny impact.

    Most people wouldn't care if you lose five minutes of talk time out of two hours...yes, it will be there on the spec sheet, and you will want more, but it won't really affect the purchasing decision. 1 hour 55 minutes of talk time vs. 2 hours of talk time...do you really care THAT much if you prefer the phone with a 1 hour 55 minute talk time?

    Really, the only thing that MIGHT make people feel the Pre 3 is outdated is the single-core processor vs. a dual-core processor. Considering that multitasking is such a big focus and benefit to WebOS, a dual-core processor really would have made more sense. Dual-core 1.0GHz or 1.2GHz would be MUCH better than a single-core 1.4GHz for many/most of us.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    Think so? I'd like to see your grades,
    (C) Screen Size = 3.6"

    4” Would be an “A”, a “B” would be the 3.6” screen with a smaller overall phone footprint.

    (C) Screen Resolution = 480x800, 260dpi

    480x800 was “superphone” status back when I bought my Pre+. Today everything has it, even the most pedestrian of phones. Personally it is “big enough for me” but it is nothing special and is certainly “average,” which is what a C grade represents.

    (*) Battery = 1230mAh, replaceable, based on Veer life should be very good

    Pointless to grade by itself. Let me know how long it lasts in real world situations and then I’ll give it a grade.

    (B or C) Rear Camera = 5MP Autofocus, Geotagging*

    Look at the pictures coming out of that Sony/Ericsson phone, then get back to me if the Pre3 can keep up. And giving it an “A” because they have “restrained themselves from getting caught up in the MP race” is pure favoritism.

    Although I hesitate to give a grade because we really don’t know much of anything about the phones picture taking ability.

    (C or D) Front Camera = VGA, Video Conferencing Capable

    VGA at this point is depressing. Fine to check the box for a middle tier phone, but substandard if we’re looking to call this thing a superphone.

    Again, hesitate to give a grade, but I’ve *never* seen an embedded VGA imager that even did a decent job of video conferencing.

    (A) CPU = 1.4GHz Single Core

    Like I said earlier, proof is in the pudding. If the thing loads webpages “PC fast,” I’ll call it a superphone.

    (B) Memory = 512MB RAM

    (C) GPU = Adreno 205

    Adreno 205 is clearly “average” when looking at phones being released now or within the last few months. Let’s not try and make it into something it isn’t. Average means “C.”

    (C) Storage = 8/16GB Internal

    Surely sufficient for most use, but I wouldn’t give it a “B” until it sports a microSD slot. Not because I think it needs more space, but because of the flexibility it gives in swapping/transferring large sums of data. An “A” would be if the mSD card was accessible without taking the back off.

    (C) Ports = 3.5mm, microUSB 2.0

    Every phone has those, thus completely average.

    (B) Wireless = Wireless N 2.4/5GHz, Bluetooth 2.1

    “B” is being kind. I personally don’t buy the thought that supporting 5Ghz N is going to do much of anything for a phone. As for giving it an “A,” not a chance when it doesn’t support BT 3.0. We’re talking about what it takes to be a superphone for the duration of a 2 yr contract. BT 3.0 offers nothing now, but a year from now it will be limited without it.

    (B) Data Network = HSPA+, EvDO, CDMA/GSM

    It stays at a “B” only because it is a world phone.

    (B) Other Features = aGPS, Accelerometer, TTS (lacks NFC, Gyro)

    I keep it at a “B” because of the included touchstone charging back. TTS does very little and everything else is completely average for any smartphone now.

    With all that said, I’ll reiterate what I said previously in the thread, the specs don’t really matter to me much. If the screen *looks* good and the browser loads pages “PC fast” that will be an acceptable test of its “Super-ness.” Everything else should pretty much be a given. At the same time though, no matter how slick it works it will never be considered a “superphone,” based on its specs, from the larger smartphone community. It just won’t.

    -Suntan
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    If you are going to be trying to make comparisons please do it right.

    Pre - / Pre Plus 500 Mhz overclock to 1 ghz is not 0.4 mhz increase. it's a 0.4ghz increase. IE 400 mhz. that's a 40% increase. Yeah big difference now.
    eh, you know what I meant :P
  14. #94  
    Suntan, there is no phone in the world which would score better than a "B" the way you're grading. I can only guess your grades were bent to support your original argument that mine were too easy.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    Suntan, there is no phone in the world which would score better than a "B" the way you're grading. I can only guess your grades were bent to support your original argument that mine were too easy.
    And I suppose you’re the kind that thinks every kid should get “A’s” just for participation.

    I gave my reasons. You can discuss them if you want. But just saying “I’m grading too tuff” isn’t much to discuss.

    -Suntan
  16. Andreas's Avatar
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    #96  
    I have a question for the top trumpers in here.

    When you buy a computer do you start by comparing specifications or do you select what OS you want?
    Treo 180 270 600 650 Centro Pre Pr3 tPad tPad4G
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
    I have a question for the top trumpers in here.

    When you buy a computer do you start by comparing specifications or do you select what OS you want?
    I don't know what a trumper is but I'll tell you that the last "computer" I bought was based on neither of those things.

    It was based on how well the device as a whole could fit with my needs.

    -Suntan
  18. nyallj's Avatar
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    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    (C) Screen Size = 3.6"

    4” Would be an “A”, a “B” would be the 3.6” screen with a smaller overall phone footprint.

    (C) Screen Resolution = 480x800, 260dpi

    480x800 was “superphone” status back when I bought my Pre+. Today everything has it, even the most pedestrian of phones. Personally it is “big enough for me” but it is nothing special and is certainly “average,” which is what a C grade represents.

    (*) Battery = 1230mAh, replaceable, based on Veer life should be very good

    Pointless to grade by itself. Let me know how long it lasts in real world situations and then I’ll give it a grade.

    (B or C) Rear Camera = 5MP Autofocus, Geotagging*

    Look at the pictures coming out of that Sony/Ericsson phone, then get back to me if the Pre3 can keep up. And giving it an “A” because they have “restrained themselves from getting caught up in the MP race” is pure favoritism.

    Although I hesitate to give a grade because we really don’t know much of anything about the phones picture taking ability.

    (C or D) Front Camera = VGA, Video Conferencing Capable

    VGA at this point is depressing. Fine to check the box for a middle tier phone, but substandard if we’re looking to call this thing a superphone.

    Again, hesitate to give a grade, but I’ve *never* seen an embedded VGA imager that even did a decent job of video conferencing.

    (A) CPU = 1.4GHz Single Core

    Like I said earlier, proof is in the pudding. If the thing loads webpages “PC fast,” I’ll call it a superphone.

    (B) Memory = 512MB RAM

    (C) GPU = Adreno 205

    Adreno 205 is clearly “average” when looking at phones being released now or within the last few months. Let’s not try and make it into something it isn’t. Average means “C.”

    (C) Storage = 8/16GB Internal

    Surely sufficient for most use, but I wouldn’t give it a “B” until it sports a microSD slot. Not because I think it needs more space, but because of the flexibility it gives in swapping/transferring large sums of data. An “A” would be if the mSD card was accessible without taking the back off.

    (C) Ports = 3.5mm, microUSB 2.0

    Every phone has those, thus completely average.

    (B) Wireless = Wireless N 2.4/5GHz, Bluetooth 2.1

    “B” is being kind. I personally don’t buy the thought that supporting 5Ghz N is going to do much of anything for a phone. As for giving it an “A,” not a chance when it doesn’t support BT 3.0. We’re talking about what it takes to be a superphone for the duration of a 2 yr contract. BT 3.0 offers nothing now, but a year from now it will be limited without it.

    (B) Data Network = HSPA+, EvDO, CDMA/GSM

    It stays at a “B” only because it is a world phone.

    (B) Other Features = aGPS, Accelerometer, TTS (lacks NFC, Gyro)

    I keep it at a “B” because of the included touchstone charging back. TTS does very little and everything else is completely average for any smartphone now.

    With all that said, I’ll reiterate what I said previously in the thread, the specs don’t really matter to me much. If the screen *looks* good and the browser loads pages “PC fast” that will be an acceptable test of its “Super-ness.” Everything else should pretty much be a given. At the same time though, no matter how slick it works it will never be considered a “superphone,” based on its specs, from the larger smartphone community. It just won’t.

    -Suntan
    So your're talking about a 4" portrait slider, with a multi-core processor (as per your note above, isn't loading web pages a function of your internet speed?), at least 1GB RAM, with either a TB of storage, or expanded storage slot, fastest video processor out there, 14MP rear camera, 12MP front camera, WiFi N 5GHz, faster 4G data networks than out there right now, all the I/O ports possible probably including USB3, Beats Audio with built in subwoofer, TRI-SUPER AMOLED display, before you have a superphone?

    Or are those specs too little for you? At what point do people get satisfied with specs? I keep saying, webOS doesn't need to be in the spec race to give a beautiful experience (just like iOS, except it's experience isn't quite as beautiful). The Android crowd has been mind-conditioned about specs because of the multitude of manufacturers out there producing identical experiences, being able to differentiate from the other only by 'specs'.

    EDIT - but there isn't any one phone out there with the kind of specs you looking at, is there?

    More below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    I don't know what a trumper is but I'll tell you that the last "computer" I bought was based on neither of those things.

    It was based on how well the device as a whole could fit with my needs.

    -Suntan
    But I like how you purchase your computer 'as a whole could fit with my needs'. And those are the questions that needs to be asked of the Pre3:

    Is the phone fast? Check? We have to see, right?

    Does it have a good camera? The specs say so, but we have to wait to see what the pics look like, right?
    Front camera only VGA? OK, but perhaps I need that 8MP front facing camera so that my video conferencing partner can see my brains through my eyeball.

    Does it have enough memory? We have to wait to see, right? But the Veer does pretty well with just as much memory, right?

    16GB/32GB storage enough? More than likely.
    How does that compare to other phones out there? Same as the fruit. Most of the other vendors that offer expandable storage options (which you have to pay extra for) are still limited to 32GB anyways.

    What's the resolution of the screen? Ah, but would your naked eyes be able to discern an obvious difference anyway?

    Data network? Yes, capable of speed, but limited to the speed your provider offers, or that you can pay for anyways.

    WiFi? Yes. 'Only' on the 2.4GHz band, but the difference is so great as to be able to find an application where you can see it obviously?


    Where do we draw the line between fantasy and effectiveness?
    NNJ
  19. Xadion's Avatar
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    #99  
    I will say though... the Evo 4g was indeed a "Throw all the 'top end' features of every other one" into one and see what we get- if you go back in time and look at the evo compaired to everything before it- the bigger screen was its kick in the pants...its brother the HD missed and then fell over so no one cared about its big screen :-P

    The fact that the EVO is still a flagship does say alot- dont get me wrong, I had one and took it back to go back to my pre- I couldent stand the thing- but dont misgive its sucess- the Pre should have been the flagship untill the Evo came out...and kinda was- it just was not supported- its build quality didnt help.

    The Pre3 I dont think is going to be a "Flagship" for any carrier- but it is the Flagship of WebOS
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyallj View Post
    Or are those specs too little for you? At what point do people get satisfied with specs? ...

    ... EDIT - but there isn't any one phone out there with the kind of specs you looking at, is there?

    ... Where do we draw the line between fantasy and effectiveness?
    Hey pal. No need to get so agitated.

    I wasn’t the one that originally broke out and graded specs one-by-one as a justification for calling a phone super. Nor was I the one that touted this spec-securitizing as one of the best posts ever made here…

    I was specifically replying to someone’s request for me to fill out how I would grade the already generated list. As I said before, if you want to discuss the *reasons* I gave those grades, I’m cool with that. But I’ll not bother if you’re just going to get mad because I didn’t give good enough grades for your darling.

    But I like how you purchase your computer 'as a whole could fit with my needs'.
    That's how I intend to pick my next phone. Also why the Pre3 is still very much in the running. Again, this has everything to do with discussing someone *else's* justification for what a "superphone" is.

    In any case, my first post in this thread was my opinion about the topic. If you want to get all up in arms about my opinion, quote that one.

    -Suntan
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