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  1. #41  
    Let's go through the legitimate spec list and grade the Pre3, relative to other high end smartphones that are currently on the market, shall we?

    (B) Screen Size = 3.6"
    (B) Screen Resolution = 480x800, 260dpi
    (A) Battery = 1230mAh, replaceable, based on Veer life should be very good
    (A) Rear Camera = 5MP Autofocus, Geotagging*
    (B) Front Camera = VGA, Video Conferencing Capable
    (A) CPU = 1.4GHz Single Core
    (B) Memory = 512MB RAM
    (B) GPU = Adreno 205
    (B) Storage = 8/16GB Internal
    (B) Ports = 3.5mm, microUSB 2.0
    (A) Wireless = Wireless N 2.4/5GHz, Bluetooth 2.1
    (B) Data Network = HSPA+, EvDO, CDMA/GSM
    (B) Other Features = aGPS, Accelerometer, TTS (lacks NFC, Gyro)

    *Image quality (lens, etc) is WAY more important than megapixels. The iPhone 4 has the best camera on the market based on the reviews I've seen, and it's 5MP. The Palm phones have always had very good camera image quality relative to their peers. The HTC 8MP devices have been widely panned as poor in quality.

    Overall, it would be very hard to give the HP Pre3 anything less than a grade of B+ vs the absolute most powerful phones available. There are no phones that I can think of which will beat the HP Pre3 in all categories, and there are VERY few that will beat the Pre3 consistently. The HP Pre3 is competitive against the best.

    One more note, it's only important for Android and Windows Phone 7 devices to truly win at spec wars as devices on these platforms have few ways to differentiate themselves from the competition except for specs. For Apple, HP and RIM, their ecosystem itself is the differentiating factor.
  2. #42  
    I think the biggest drawback to the Pre 3 is the 512MB of RAM. The nature of webOS' process management really requires as much RAM as possible (since apps are active and processing in the background) and putting a gig into the Pre 3 would future-proof it far beyond any other spec HP could upgrade.

    It just doesn't seem very forward-thinking to ship the Pre 3 with the same amount of RAM as the Pre Plus had.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I think the biggest drawback to the Pre 3 is the 512MB of RAM. The nature of webOS' process management really requires as much RAM as possible (since apps are active and processing in the background) and putting a gig into the Pre 3 would future-proof it far beyond any other spec HP could upgrade.

    It just doesn't seem very forward-thinking to ship the Pre 3 with the same amount of RAM as the Pre Plus had.


    I honestly do not get this. I NEVER have more than 4 or 5 apps open at a time. I've seen where folks have purposely tried to max out and gotten RIDICULOUSLY high number of cards (including games) open.


    I just do not think it reasonable to think that one needs to "future proof" THAT far into the unknown. By the time it is REASONABLE to believe that there could be an issue.....the phone would be so old that it is time to replace anyway.
  4. Xadion's Avatar
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    #44  
    On the other hand, 512 has proven itself in the pre2 and veer- and then the nature of WebOS actually HELPS because 1) you dont have moto blur HTC sence or some other memory drain overlay 2) when you "think" and app is closed - its closed unlike ios/android suspended still take some memory allocation - for the typical user this is big- when the EVO came out every rep at the sprint store was sitting everyone down AFTER they bought their shiny new 200$ evo and 2year contract- and explaining the nature of app killers

    "So I have to go and kill apps a few times a day so my device does not lag?"
    "Yeah"
    "Umm okay"
    "Enjoy android!"

    3) not all apps are active as you say- some are pause state- some are active- this is dependant on the program

    4) the email active push is alot better memory managed than say iOS where it just leaves your email app open 24/7 in the background.

    So, sure 1gig would be pretty on the spec sheet I agree there.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlee2001 View Post
    I honestly do not get this. I NEVER have more than 4 or 5 apps open at a time. I've seen where folks have purposely tried to max out and gotten RIDICULOUSLY high number of cards (including games) open.


    I just do not think it reasonable to think that one needs to "future proof" THAT far into the unknown. By the time it is REASONABLE to believe that there could be an issue.....the phone would be so old that it is time to replace anyway.
    I think you are not taking into account the amount of memory your periodically active in the background apps take e.g. email. More memory will allow more of them to be in active memory and thus perform faster. WebOS uses compcache so theoretically it should be fine with 512 MB however there really is nothing better than having more memory as any Pre- user will tell you.

    Wehn PRe3 was announced Atrix had already been announced and by the time Pre3 launches there will be more than half a dozen handsets in the market with more memory than 512 on OSes that rely on fast app switching rather than true multitasking.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlee2001 View Post
    I honestly do not get this. I NEVER have more than 4 or 5 apps open at a time. I've seen where folks have purposely tried to max out and gotten RIDICULOUSLY high number of cards (including games) open.
    The thing is, apps aren't getting any smaller. Memory footprints aren't shrinking. Especially for games where you want to load as many high res textures into memory as possible.

    Maybe I have a skewed perspective as an iPhone 4 user (where there's a much larger selection of apps available), but I hate the idea of developers targeting the lowest common denominator and scaling up from there. It really should be the other way around.

    I just do not think it reasonable to think that one needs to "future proof" THAT far into the unknown. By the time it is REASONABLE to believe that there could be an issue.....the phone would be so old that it is time to replace anyway.
    That's where having a gig of RAM helps. Right now, webOS 3.0 is targeting phones with 512MB of RAM as a baseline. As the OS' featureset expands, it's likely (I'd even say probable) that memory usage will go up. Doubling the RAM in the Pre 3 would actually extend the life of the phone.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by sapient2k7 View Post
    I think you are not taking into account the amount of memory your periodically active in the background apps take e.g. email. More memory will allow more of them to be in active memory and thus perform faster. WebOS uses compcache so theoretically it should be fine with 512 MB however there really is nothing better than having more memory as any Pre- user will tell you.

    Wehn PRe3 was announced Atrix had already been announced and by the time Pre3 launches there will be more than half a dozen handsets in the market with more memory than 512 on OSes that rely on fast app switching rather than true multitasking.


    The fact is that I am not taking ANY spec into account. I simply know that I have ZERO issue with the amount of RAM available. my emails come in just fine. I am not a spec geek (that is NOT meant to be a shot at anyone). I only care how it performs. Not how many RAMs and Gee Bees and Goo Gahs it has.


    I turn it on...it does what I need / want it to do.....however many thingies are under the hood are enough.
  8. #48  
    dont understand why not put the same memory and processor in pre-3 as TP. Increase your bulk order of TP components also, simply everything and reduce cost.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlee2001 View Post
    The fact is that I am not taking ANY spec into account. I simply know that I have ZERO issue with the amount of RAM available. my emails come in just fine. I am not a spec geek (that is NOT meant to be a shot at anyone). I only care how it performs. Not how many RAMs and Gee Bees and Goo Gahs it has.


    I turn it on...it does what I need / want it to do.....however many thingies are under the hood are enough.
    Right, but that's with webOS 2.x as it is today and, to be frank, it's a stagnant platform right now. More RAM opens up the door for more innovation and better features. I could live with the Pre 3 having a small screen and a single core CPU because I think the 512MB of RAM is going to be a bottleneck long before screen real estate and CPU cycles become problematic.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by soltrance View Post

    I see No Reason for getting a Pre3 over the Pre2 neither I get what all the fuzz is about.
    The Pre3 looks practically the same, 0.48 bigger screen, same storage, same RAM (512 Mb is old news now), same MP camera, small battery (considering faster processor and higher resolution screen).
    Plus single core processor, 0.4 MHz faster, but the Pre2 is also 0.4 MHz faster than the original Pre(+) and is not that much of a difference, I still hate how it stalls when sending a message or scrolling contacts and the call log .
    This linear thinking of yours... A 0.48" increase doesn't sound big on paper but you jump from 3.1 to 3.6". Put a Pre next to an iphone (3.5") and see the bi size diff. Then omit the fact that the pre3 screen resolution will be ~1.5x better than that of pre/pre2. The camera is improved on pre3 with auto focus and macro. If 512 ram is enough to run webos 3.0, then it's perfectly fine. We'll find out on day 1. The processor is 0.4 mhz faster but tell that to all of us that overclock our pre that 0.4mhz doesn't make much of a difference. They're not even the same processor and they're from different companies! One is TI OMAP3 and the other is a Qualcomm. That's like saying pentium 1.0ghz and a AMD duron 1.4ghz are apples to apples. C'mon man...
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfool View Post
    You forgot about the power consumption comparison. The X9100 is a total joke at battery life.
    Not really. I have profiles in throttlestop, one's called "battery". Turns power saver 'on', turns turbo 'off', turns super low frequency mode 'on', sets multiplier to 6.0, and sets the voltage to 1.16. I get 2.5+ hrs of battery with the x9100, thanks to unlocked multiplier. With the p8400 that came with it, I could get 1.5 hours max.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatfool View Post
    Reminds me of the jokers who laughed at my Asus 80Jt's i5 520UM. Unfortunately for them, it lasts 7 hours (websurfing) compared to their ZOMG! quad core i7s!
    My bluetooth keyboard gets MONTHS of battery life compared to my computer.. apples to oranges...

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  12. Thead's Avatar
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    #52  
    I saw this posted this morning but didn't have time to respond. Came back now with arguments prepared but I see that plenty of people have already made my case.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    Let's go through the legitimate spec list and grade the Pre3, relative to other high end smartphones that are currently on the market, shall we?

    (B) Screen Size = 3.6"
    (B) Screen Resolution = 480x800, 260dpi
    (A) Battery = 1230mAh, replaceable, based on Veer life should be very good
    (A) Rear Camera = 5MP Autofocus, Geotagging*
    (B) Front Camera = VGA, Video Conferencing Capable
    (A) CPU = 1.4GHz Single Core
    (B) Memory = 512MB RAM
    (B) GPU = Adreno 205
    (B) Storage = 8/16GB Internal
    (B) Ports = 3.5mm, microUSB 2.0
    (A) Wireless = Wireless N 2.4/5GHz, Bluetooth 2.1
    (B) Data Network = HSPA+, EvDO, CDMA/GSM
    (B) Other Features = aGPS, Accelerometer, TTS (lacks NFC, Gyro)

    *Image quality (lens, etc) is WAY more important than megapixels. The iPhone 4 has the best camera on the market based on the reviews I've seen, and it's 5MP. The Palm phones have always had very good camera image quality relative to their peers. The HTC 8MP devices have been widely panned as poor in quality.

    Overall, it would be very hard to give the HP Pre3 anything less than a grade of B+ vs the absolute most powerful phones available. There are no phones that I can think of which will beat the HP Pre3 in all categories, and there are VERY few that will beat the Pre3 consistently. The HP Pre3 is competitive against the best.

    One more note, it's only important for Android and Windows Phone 7 devices to truly win at spec wars as devices on these platforms have few ways to differentiate themselves from the competition except for specs. For Apple, HP and RIM, their ecosystem itself is the differentiating factor.
    You know, this may well be one of the Top 5 posts ever to written on these forums.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    This linear thinking of yours... A 0.48" increase doesn't sound big on paper but you jump from 3.1 to 3.6". Put a Pre next to an iphone (3.5") and see the bi size diff. Then omit the fact that the pre3 screen resolution will be ~1.5x better than that of pre/pre2. The camera is improved on pre3 with auto focus and macro. If 512 ram is enough to run webos 3.0, then it's perfectly fine. We'll find out on day 1. The processor is 0.4 mhz faster but tell that to all of us that overclock our pre that 0.4mhz doesn't make much of a difference. They're not even the same processor and they're from different companies! One is TI OMAP3 and the other is a Qualcomm. That's like saying pentium 1.0ghz and a AMD duron 1.4ghz are apples to apples. C'mon man...
    If you are going to be trying to make comparisons please do it right.

    Pre - / Pre Plus 500 Mhz overclock to 1 ghz is not 0.4 mhz increase. it's a 0.4ghz increase. IE 400 mhz. that's a 40% increase. Yeah big difference now.
    In a world of droid, Pre does it better.

    Shouldn't we treat this world like the Garden of Eden and avoid the apple at all costs?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    You know, this may well be one of the Top 5 posts ever to written on these forums.
    Not really.

    Itís a logical way to look at the situation, but imo the grading is too optimistic in favor of the Pre3 in a lot of areas.

    -Suntan
  16. mrkalel's Avatar
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    #56  
    IMO, The Pre 3, TouchPad & Veer are the beginning of the relaunch of webOS. They are great products for the majority of Enterprise where HP wants to get their foot (and rest of Body) in the door and start to push RIM out.

    The are also pretty damn good products in the consumer space, especially with great advertising.

    The year that will be killer (in terms of HW) will be 2012.
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  17. #57  
    If you polled the typical classroom or office I think you'd find the Pre3 would compete pretty well in terms of specs and price. I think this is more like Saab trying to introduce a model to compete with the Ford Taurus and the Toyota Camry. Not Pagani competing with Lamborghini and Ferrari.

    The high-end models will come when the eco-system is robust enough to support niche devices.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Not really.

    Itís a logical way to look at the situation, but imo the grading is too optimistic in favor of the Pre3 in a lot of areas.

    -Suntan
    Think so? I'd like to see your grades, but I'll expand on mine so you can see my thought process. I try to be impartial as I can because I'm tired of seeing republican vs democrat... er, I mean superfan vs superfan in the forums. Most times they're both wrong, lol.

    I was tempted to use +/- in the grades, but I think it's just too nitpicky.

    (B) Screen Size = 3.6"
    The sweet spot is 3.7"-4.0" IMHO. 3.50"-3.69" and 4.01"-4.30" = B in my book.

    (B) Screen Resolution = 480x800, 260dpi
    Anything with a dpi of 275+ would get an A as far as I'm concerned. There are virtually no phones in that category, though. The Pre3's dpi is higher than a LOT of top end phones like the slab EVO line for example.

    (A) Battery = 1230mAh, replaceable, based on Veer life should be very good
    This one is tough, but people are getting really good performance out of their little Veer. Most decent smartphones will get you a full day if you don't have 4G turned on. Add a little for the easy battery swap (maybe even hot swappable)

    (A) Rear Camera = 5MP Autofocus, Geotagging*
    If you compare the Pre's 3.0MP camera shots to other 3.0MP camera's of the era, I'm sorry, but the Pre has a very nice cam. More MP doesn't equal better images, just bigger files that take up more space. Same for 1080p video. I don't see the value in 1080p over 720p with the kind of image quality a smartphone can produce.

    (B) Front Camera = VGA, Video Conferencing Capable
    I guess it'd be nice to have a little more capable front camera, but VGA is decent. Some top of the line phones don't have any at all.

    (A) CPU = 1.4GHz Single Core
    The Pre3's 1.4GHz single core processor will be faster and more efficient than any smartphone CPU on the market for the vast majority of all smartphone apps. It is still THE BEST CPU in any smartphone to date.

    (B) Memory = 512MB RAM
    1GB might improve some potential multitasking experience, though it would definitely cost battery life.

    (B) GPU = Adreno 205
    The Tegra2's and Adreno 220's are clearly superior for the most intensive smartphone games available. They're also more power hungry without any benefit for most applications and users.

    (B) Storage = 8/16GB Internal
    I don't know of any smartphone which is currently able to handle more than 32GB of storage (the Atrix, for example, can handle micro SD cards up to 32GB, though having the ability to hot swap files via a card is definitely an advantage) Most users don't need more than 16GB, and internal is going to be quicker than a card. If the 8GB version was the only one available, this would definitely drop to a D.

    (B) Ports = 3.5mm, microUSB 2.0
    Lack of HDMI out is minus a grade point.

    (A) Wireless = Wireless N 2.4/5GHz, Bluetooth 2.1
    5 GHz band is full of win.

    (B) Data Network = HSPA+, EvDO, CDMA/GSM
    Lack of optional 4G, even though current LTE/WiMax users report mostly massive battery drain and limited speed increases, is still a grade drop.

    (B) Other Features = aGPS, Accelerometer, TTS, Compass (lacks NFC, Gyro)
    NFC is pretty fringe. The gyro would be nice for a few apps, but I don't think it's a big deal like the compass was.
  19. #59  
    Does the Pre3 need more RAM? Probably not. Nobody has one so I think you're kidding yourself to make a big deal out of the issue. webOS 2.x+ devices just simply don't appear to have any TMC problems even with several apps open.

    Of course, webOS could always do the Android thing and just silently force close your apps in the background. I see angry Facebook posts every day from Android user friends that are tired of the apps being force closed.
  20. #60  
    Pre 3 only missing 4G. Sprint 3G is slow as ****. That is assuming that Sprint even gets it.

    At the end we want more variety. Not old outdated hardware as the only choice.
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