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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    A: ringgggggg... ringgggggg...
    B: Hullo?
    A: Hey, feel like going to that place?
    B: That place? Oh yeah why not. Are they open today?
    A: Wait let me check...
    A: ...
    A: ...
    A: Yes they are. Meet you there.
    B: OK!

    That's smart, and a CDMA smartphone is a 'contradictio in terminis'.
    ? This is a limit to EVDO not CDMA itself - EVDO has been supplanted by SVDO (on Verizon) and a few phones (not Pre2, not iPhone4) implement this. SVDO has no problem with simultaneous voice/data. As pointed out GSM originally didn't offer this either - my bad.
  2. #22  
    I feel like this thread is devolving into GSM vs. CDMA rather than pointing out differences and similarities. The original question seemed to be what is one vs. the other not which one is best.

    I've tried to be very neutral and not advocate one over the other based solely on technology. I have read information that states that one of the failings of GSM in the USA was that the frequencies used in Europe were not available and the use of GSM on the 1900 mhz band limited range and hampered implementation. The hisotry of mobile communications link that I provided also mentioned several technologies that were left behind and were in many ways superior to the existing technology of their day - but like Betamax, the market preferred other solutions.

    In the USA I prefer Verizon over all other carriers for coverage, call quality, and service. But I have not directly experienced alternatives in a long time and my impression is that these differences are more subtle on all but coverage.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by gnark View Post
    nope. not on gsm 2g, and when its 3g i think its not called gsm at all anymore to be extact but umts and that one is technically pretty close to cdma but still runs on sim cards. hsdpa and hsupa are extensions to umts and point in the 4g direction.
    Not true. GSM 2G allows talk and data at the same time just fine. That's how I use my Pre all the time as 3G is so unreliable and kills the battery.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    A: "Wow, is that a device with true multitasking?"
    B: "Yes, but only when I'm not on a call. Otherwise, I can only scratch my **** with it."
    The point I made seems to be lost. This is being resolved for CMDA users via SVDO - this is no longer a real differentiator - but many older phones are not SVDO capable so the limit is still there for those phones.

    In the US the joke would be:

    A: Hello?
    B: Hello?
    A: Hello?
    B: Hello?
    A: hangs up.
    B: hangs up.

    This call brought to you by AT&T or T-Mobile...
    Last edited by Unclevanya; 06/14/2011 at 11:44 AM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    A: "Wow, is that a device with true multitasking?"
    B: "Yes, but only when I'm not on a call. Otherwise, I can only scratch my **** with it."
    Not nearly AS cute.

    I have NO issue with what others think is important. It simply has never been, nor do I expect it to be, a very big deal for me to talk and surf the web on my phone at the same time.
  6. Targon's Avatar
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    #26  
    AT&T is currently calling HSPA+ 4G, and this is going to cause a lot of confusion when AT&T rolls out its LTE network, which is more of a true next generation protocol. What causes the confusion is the difference between the SPEED of something, and the true generation change.

    You can have a HSPA+ connection(which is based on 3G technologies but has been upgraded to provide higher speeds) that runs at 15mbps, and you can also have LTE running at 15mbps. As a result, even though HSPA+ is really an evolution of 3G, it was initially being called "4G speeds", to distinguish it as being different from LTE, which is considered a fourth generation protocol.

    They did this because T-mobile was calling it's service 4G when it clearly had no LTE network in place, and AT&T was not ready to launch its LTE/4G network yet(due this summer)

    On the Verizon end, they DO have LTE/4G available, but only in select markets, so most people wouldn't have 4G service, even if they had a LTE/4G phone. In general, the AT&T 3G service is faster than Verizon 3G service, but Verizon has a larger network than AT&T, and in many areas, has better service levels, so the perception is that Verizon is better.

    So, where is the truth here? It is a bit of all of this put together. There are areas around the country where AT&T has better coverage, and other areas where Verizon has the advantage. AT&T has had a bandwidth shortage in some areas caused by iPhone users using far more bandwidth than those with other phones, and this has led to a quality decrease for AT&T users in the affected areas. GSM and derived technologies really would provide the same quality of service in general compared to CDMA, but if you are in an area with poor service, it doesn't matter which you have, you have poor service.

    It should be noted as well that because Verizon is the local phone company in many areas, Verizon has been able to put up cell phone towers on the same land, and I don't believe that regulators have addressed the issue of Verizon getting government subsidies to maintain the phone lines and equipment, but using those same subsidies to improve their cellular network since they are linked.
  7. #27  
    :facepalm:

    Tradeoffs, people. If you only look at a simplistic feature level here's the tradeoffs between GSM/UMTS/HSPA (1) and CDMA/EVDO (2)

    (1) allows slightly better battery life, SIM cards and simultaneous voice & data
    (2) allows much better voice coverage in densly populated locations, and much better range per tower in rural areas.

    Tradeoffs. Pick your poison.

    And of course, to the point of some previous poster, what's important is the ability to develop and change. To wit: UMTS, HSPA & LTE - all protocols that are being implemented by GSM providers - make use of CDMA protocol features. Additionally, SVDO, LTE & WIMAX allow for simultaneous voice and data.

    This whole CDMA vs GSM war is a waste of time. Pick whatever suits your needs. And stop telling others what you think should suit theirs!
    Twitter: dullgeek
  8. #28  
    There is a simple difference between CDMA and GSM phones: The GSM phones use a SIM Card to store the number. This card is easilly swapable between phones.

    And about WCDMA, this is a phancy name of UMTS, which is nothing more than the GSM 3G.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    A: "Wow, is that a device with true multitasking?"
    B: "Yes, but only when I'm not on a call. Otherwise, I can only scratch my **** with it."
    Way off base on 2 counts.

    1. You can be on a call, and the device can still be multi-tasking, it just can't access the internet through the EVDO radio.
    2. You can be on a call, and still access the internet through WiFi.
  10. #30  
    Well, both technologies are good and have some differences, but the important if is working ok or not. If the carrier don't working well, the technology is not important!

    Just a small detail: in GSM network, you have a limited numbers of users in same time and; when finish this limit, nobody can use until some call finish. In CDMA, you have no users limit in same time, but the quality gonna be worst with more calls is starting after some number...

    I don't know if I has explained right... :P

    Here in Brazil, that changing the GSM number from phones using only a Sim Card was enough to finish the CDMA network...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Way off base on 2 counts.

    1. You can be on a call, and the device can still be multi-tasking, it just can't access the internet through the EVDO radio.
    2. You can be on a call, and still access the internet through WiFi.
    You can also be sending and receiving SMS while on a call. Combine that with Google SMS search and you can often not need to leave the call.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    A: ringgggggg... ringgggggg...
    B: Hullo?
    A: Hey, feel like going to that place?
    B: That place? Oh yeah why not. Are they open today?
    A: Wait let me check...
    A: ...
    A: ...
    A: Yes they are. Meet you there.
    B: OK!

    That's smart, and a CDMA smartphone is a 'contradictio in terminis'.
    As for this, It's more likely I'd stick them on call waiting and actually call the place even if I have internet access because more often than not the hours on the internet have been inaccurate.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    People have got to stop taking things so seriously.


    (and no way 'off base': we're talking radios)
    I'm sorry I couldn't hear you (I had my phone otherwise occupied... ).
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Just a small detail: in GSM network, you have a limited numbers of users in same time and; when finish this limit, nobody can use until some call finish. In CDMA, you have no users limit in same time, but the quality gonna be worst with more calls is starting after some number...
    This. The way I understand it, GSM has a fixed number of simultaneous voice users per tower. With CDMA, however, more users can be added by decreasing the allotted bandwidth per user - effectively lower the call quality. The carriers run algorithms to manage the capacity.

    I have also read that tower hand-offs (i.e. while moving) are smoother on CDMA - but that might be very old data.
  14. #34  
    If you want the full, sordid story, read this:

    USS Clueless - GSM 3G

    This is quite old, but it sheds a lot of light on CDMA vs GSM.

    I would like to point out that there is a reason GSM is currently paired with WCDMA for data. Yes, the "CDMA" in "WCDMA" stands for exactly the same thing as "CDMA" alone. I like to call it a dumbed-down version of CDMA made to work with GSM. So if CDMA is so horrible, then why is GSM using it?
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by andyhurley View Post
    Not true. GSM 2G allows talk and data at the same time just fine. That's how I use my Pre all the time as 3G is so unreliable and kills the battery.
    oups, this sent me into a little testing and reading. i can confirm that whenever i have data enabled on my pre and i see the "g" for gprs or the "e" for edge icon and i do one of the following two things, the icon disappears instantly:

    1) starting a call out of the pre
    2) calling into the pre from outside right before pre starts ringing

    also whenever i end a call of a couple of minutes duration and there was an imap email incoming in the meantime i receive it right after the call never in the middle of it.

    texts are different: i receive them in the middle of voice calls. they dont make the data icon disappear while sending nor while receiving or the interruption is too short to notice.

    3g (umts) is different: there is no separate data icon, i cannot tell if a open socket stream would interrupt or not because the layering of transport protocols is organized in a way where voice basically IS data and uses a certaint bandwidth for it *i believe*.

    also there are a lot of issues in forums on the net discussing occasions related to iphones (and i even learned about occasions related to palm pres) where a data connection wasnt interrupted for an incomming voice call and the call went to the voicebox.

    i believe its a question of gsm protocol features that may be implemented or not or in a good or bad way that take care of these "switches", but i never experienced that a 2g data connection survived a voice connection without being interrupted by the phone or by the tower.

    i live in germany and use the eplus network, so there might be carrier specific strategies involved, i ll be in the uk for holiday in july so i ll test this scenario just because now i am curious

    but: are you sure? the g/e icon reamins when you tap a number in you contact list??

    as an additional remark i have to say i never had an issue with it as i normally dont read mail while on the phone, but what i do sometimes is by multitasking checking my calendar or another contact info while being in a call and thanks to webos this works like a charm.
  16. #36  
    To answer you orginal question and not comment on the holy war:

    WCDMA is one of the names for the 3G version of GSM.

    The problem is CDMA is technology and a protocol.

    CDMA and WCDMA are 2 protocols that use 'CDMA technology'

    Actually the CDMA Sprint and Verizon use should technically be called CDMAOne (or somthing like that).



    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Amos View Post
    can someone help CDMA and GSM?

    i thought CDMA is Sprint and GSM is Vzn.

    i read a 3rd FCC post here that said the Pre 3 listed WCDMA 1850-1910 MHz

    is that not Sprint?
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by terryg View Post
    The way I understand it, GSM has a fixed number of simultaneous voice users per tower. With CDMA, however, more users can be added by decreasing the allotted bandwidth per user - effectively lower the call quality. The carriers run algorithms to manage the capacity.
    Close, but CDMA doesn't lower the cal quality to accomplish this.

    I'm surprised that no-one has pointed this out yet, but the discussion should really be:

    CDMA vs. TDMA vs. W-CDMA

    not CDMA vs GSM...

    CDMA = Code Division Multiple Access. IE: A way to provide access to multiple devices on a single cell phone tower radio. Each device is assigned a 'code' and any device can communicate as long as no other device is communicating at the same time. The device adds it's own unique id 'code' to each message so the tower knows what device is currently transmitting a message. Qualcomm currently has a patent on this method.

    TDMA = Time Division Multiple Access. Serves the same purpose as CDMA but is much simpler to implement while being far less efficient. Each device is given a particular slice of 'time' that it is allowed to communicate with the tower. So for examples sake, say you have 10 devices currently in range of the tower radio. The tower would assign device #1 the first 10 milliseconds of every second, the 2nd device would get milliseconds 11-20, device #3 would get 21-30, and so on. Each device would have to wait until it's 'turn' to transmit. The drawback to this method is that bandwidth is always split evenly between all active devices. So if the tower has a total of 10 Mbps of bandwidth to provide, and there are 10 devices, each device gets a fixed 1 Mbps of bandwidth regardless of the activity level of the other 9 devices. If 9 of the devices are idle and 1 device is busy downloading something 90% of the towers bandwidth is wasted. With CDMA a single device can utilize all 10 Mbps of the towers available bandwidth.

    With that said, the '3G' version of GSM does not use TDMA, but uses W-CDMA (DS-CDMA) which still utilizes CDMA techniques to make things more efficient, and is how GSM closed the gap on CDMA and EVDO with their 3G version.

    Spend some time reading the various Wikipedia articles, it gets pretty interesting.

    -Jeremy
  18. #38  
    My main beef is, if cdma can indeed support sim (or similar) cards, why aren't they used? It's not that cdma has a technological limitation with sim cards... it's just that the carriers in the US have not implemented them. I hate that I don't have the option to just simply switch sim cards out between phones. I run regularly and my pre- is just small enough that I can fit it into my waist pack clip-on. I've love to be able to run with a Veer in the future but use Pre3 as my main handset (ignore the fact that neither may ever come to Sprint). If I wanted to switch phones on Sprint, I have to log on and do an esm swap. Annoying and I'm not gonna do that every time I go running! And to do an esm swap before they gave you the option to do it yourself online... geez, let's not even go there. Users are the ultimate losers with CDMA b/c they're literally bound to their phones.
  19. RafRol's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by terryg View Post
    This. The way I understand it, GSM has a fixed number of simultaneous voice users per tower. With CDMA, however, more users can be added by decreasing the allotted bandwidth per user - effectively lower the call quality. The carriers run algorithms to manage the capacity.

    I have also read that tower hand-offs (i.e. while moving) are smoother on CDMA - but that might be very old data.
    Tower hand-offs are indeed better. Still.
    Last edited by RafRol; 06/15/2011 at 11:50 AM.
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    My main beef is, if cdma can indeed support sim (or similar) cards, why aren't they used? It's not that cdma has a technological limitation with sim cards... it's just that the carriers in the US have not implemented them. I hate that I don't have the option to just simply switch sim cards out between phones. I run regularly and my pre- is just small enough that I can fit it into my waist pack clip-on. I've love to be able to run with a Veer in the future but use Pre3 as my main handset (ignore the fact that neither may ever come to Sprint). If I wanted to switch phones on Sprint, I have to log on and do an esm swap. Annoying and I'm not gonna do that every time I go running! And to do an esm swap before they gave you the option to do it yourself online... geez, let's not even go there. Users are the ultimate losers with CDMA b/c they're literally bound to their phones.
    I completely agree. That's why I use GSM vs. CDMA. For me, it's all about trying to keep insane roaming costs down with local-country SIMs when on the road (before I wised up, I was getting hammered with $4/minute charges overseas). The way I see it: I should be able to use whatever phone I choose on the network I like without having to depend on HP/Carrier agreements. That said, I know this isn't the norm in N.America where Carrier subsidized plans are favoured.

    If, however, you don't travel abroad much and you only want one phone, the arguments for GSM vs. CDMA become mostly trivial. Ultimately, it comes down to the other things (network reliability, simultaneous talk & data, etc..).
    Palm History: Sony Clie T615C --> T|X --> Pre+ --> Pre3 Aspirations -->
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