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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by sdguy101 View Post
    PS: My veer should be here monday, would love to see where it stands hardware wise in it's $99 class.
    You mean Free class? Or at least say $49 since that's price from Amazon/HP.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  2. #22  
    They outsource hardware production to the same factories that assemble iPhones and other smartphones.

    I think you will be mostly impressed with the Veer. The slider is solid (there will always be a tiny bit of play if you twist it - or it wouldn't slide) and the keyboard is really excellent. I've played with the keyboard enough to like it MUCH better than my Pre2. Long travel and solid edges make it easy to feel each key and know when it's been pressed. So far the P|C members that bought the Veer have really been praising the hardware design and build quality.

    We will be interested in your reaction after using it for a few weeks.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    It is a common mistake to assume that AGPS is not as good as GPS, but it is in fact better. AGPS is real satellite-based GPS, and it will work without a cellular signal. However if a cellular signal is present, it will obtain a fix faster than would be possible without.

    I think some people are under the impression that AGPS is a fake GPS that works exclusively via cell tower triangulation, but this is not the case at all.
    Thanks for this and to the others who put in their comments.
    February 9, 2011 - A case study in how not to introduce new products.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    But what it does mean to me that they put effort into making the speakers decent.
    No, it means they put the effort into marketing the speakers as decent.

    Does that work? People are already defending their quality without ever having laid hands on the product or listening to it, so yes, it does.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    Yes, most of us do understand that just because something has Beats Audio doesn't mean that the speakers are DJ worthy. But what it does mean to me that they put effort into making the speakers decent. I believe that the speakers on the TouchPad is obviously blow away the iPad 2's mono speaker and give me reasonable speakers that I will use everyday watching movies and listening to music.
    I thought "Beats" was only relevant to the audio jack. It's not that it has "Beats" speakers, but that it puts out "Beats Audio" that will sound better when played by something that can handle it. I had my brother's HP laptop with "beats audio" for a few days, and I hooked it up to my Shure in-ear monitors... and compared it to a mid-level set of Skull Candy earbuds.

    Then I did the same with my Pre2... It was hard to tell what was "Beats" and what was just my bad hearing. I thought that both pair sounded about the same on both devices, but the Shure buds are sooo good that it's hard for my tired old ears to really appreciate what they can do. At the end of my basic comparison it seemed like there might be a slight improvement with "Beats" - but not enough to charge money. Someone in the business needs to do a serious comparison on a laptop or touchpad where they can turn "Beats" off and on so they can isolate it from other variables. When they explained it at the launch, the studio guy said it had to do with providing better sampling and such... but the world has accepted low bitrate MP3 that is about a 25 year old codec... and it would take someone with excellent hearing to hear the difference.
  6. Dr.Phil's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Or it could be a mistake and was copy pasted from the TP specs which makes the most sense.

    Hardware changes to "have an edge" are almost never done after revealing the specs of a product because they are complicated, take more time and money and generally are not done. Usually a company would wait for the next version to do those changes.
    It has been done a lot in the smartphone world. Also, this isn't some big spec change. It still has the same cpu, graphics, screen size, resolution, etc. The Droid Bionic was announced in January for a summer release and already they are changing the phone over. And as someone pointed out the Galaxy Tab was changed in a shorter amount of time. HP needs the Pre3 to be somewhat of a hit when it comes to market because it will show consumers the potential for future HP phones. I mean honestly if it comes to market as just a larger screen pre2, then it has the potential to flop. They need to show the other brands and other operating systems what they have to offer. With HP this means things that only they can offer on a phone such as Beats audio will be important to separating them from the crowd. And you're right this could be a typo, but don't downplay it yet because HP has had 4 months now to relook over the Pre3 and possibly add in stuff it didn't have before.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Phil View Post
    It has been done a lot in the smartphone world.[Citation Needed]
    "A lot" Really?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Phil View Post
    HP needs the Pre3 to be somewhat of a hit when it comes to market because it will show consumers the potential for future HP phones.
    Beats audio is gonna make the Pre 3 a hit?!? Is that what people have been clamoring for in the Pre line, that it doesn't have Beats audio?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Phil View Post
    I mean honestly if it comes to market as just a larger screen pre2, then it has the potential to flop.
    Agreed that's why it comes with:

    • Larger keyboard
    • 1.4Ghz CPU
    • 480x800 resolution WVGA display
    • VGA front facing camera with a rear auto-focus camera with LED flash, HD (up to 720p) video recording
    • Compass
    • Larger battery
    • Wi-Fi (802.11a/b/g/n 5GHz)


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Phil View Post
    With HP this means things that only they can offer on a phone such as Beats audio will be important to separating them from the crowd.
    Again, Beats... Really ?!?
    Is Beats the thing that "will be important to separate" the Pre 3 from the crowd??? It's good marketing but I can think of a lot of other things that would be much better if that's what your goal is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Phil View Post
    ...because HP has had 4 months now to relook over the Pre3 and possibly add in stuff it didn't have before.
    Really, I was at the Think Beyond conf and they didn't overlook Beats at all. They not only made a big deal of it on the TP but they brought out the Beats guy to explain to the whole audience how it works and how awesome (even if you can't hear a difference) it is.


    Or if you meant that companies like HP give a once over after they announced a product with specs and right before they are going to release it they "relook" and "add in stuff it didn't have before" then you don't understand how the industry works.


    *[Edit]*
    Oh forgot to add dual-mode GSM/CDMA World Phone capable to the list.
    (I'm pretty sure that's something that makes it stand out from the crowd)
    Last edited by deesugar; 06/09/2011 at 07:06 PM.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I thought "Beats" was only relevant to the audio jack. It's not that it has "Beats" speakers, but that it puts out "Beats Audio" that will sound better when played by something that can handle it. I had my brother's HP laptop with "beats audio" for a few days, and I hooked it up to my Shure in-ear monitors... and compared it to a mid-level set of Skull Candy earbuds.

    Then I did the same with my Pre2... It was hard to tell what was "Beats" and what was just my bad hearing. I thought that both pair sounded about the same on both devices, but the Shure buds are sooo good that it's hard for my tired old ears to really appreciate what they can do. At the end of my basic comparison it seemed like there might be a slight improvement with "Beats" - but not enough to charge money. Someone in the business needs to do a serious comparison on a laptop or touchpad where they can turn "Beats" off and on so they can isolate it from other variables. When they explained it at the launch, the studio guy said it had to do with providing better sampling and such... but the world has accepted low bitrate MP3 that is about a 25 year old codec... and it would take someone with excellent hearing to hear the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    No, it means they put the effort into marketing the speakers as decent.

    Does that work? People are already defending their quality without ever having laid hands on the product or listening to it, so yes, it does.
    No, what I meant is that they did put some consideration into speakers and audio. If a company has the insight to worry about beats audio they must have worried about the speakers first. They didn't just blow it off like Apple is doing with their iPad 2. They thought enough to put in stereo speakers into the TouchPad along with beats. This means they did give the audio and speakers some visual action unlike their competitors. Basically, if they are aware of the speakers enough to worry about Beats they probably put more true consideration into them than most of their competitors. Which makes be happy
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    #29  
    The stereo speakers may be a typo, but I hope to God that the Beats Audio isn't! I have it on my HP laptop and it does sound good with a good pair of headphones, or hooked up to my stereo.

    Beats Audio is more than just better speakers. It's a dedicated audio chip with a discrete and isolated amplifier connected to an upgraded headphone jack in a manner that reduces crosstalk between left and right channels.

    It is a feature worth marketing. It may not be the killer feature, but people will take notice if marketed properly, and many will hear a difference. People do consume large amounts of audio via their phones nowadays (I rarely see iPods anymore).

    I just hope that HP/Palm can implement it on the phone in the same manner as on their laptops (isolated).
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
  10. Dr.Phil's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    "A lot" Really?!?
    The first thing I want to say after your post is: lolwhyumadtho? I mean your post is just filled with sarcasm and passive aggressiveness, all because I have a difference in opinion. I mean at least in my posts I admit to seeing your point of view, which is why I even said yes this could be a typo. I just brought a different viewpoint to your own.

    Beats audio is gonna make the Pre 3 a hit?!? Is that what people have been clamoring for in the Pre line, that it doesn't have Beats audio?!?
    First of all, you are not taking into account people who have not owned a Pre device. So you may see that the Pre3 has a wide range of improvements over the Pre2, but the point is that HP doesn't just need to maintain its fan base, it needs to branch out in order to compete with Apple and Android. Take for instance the Pre2, even though people who love WebOS have agreed it is substantially better than the first Pre it still did not sell that much. This is the first Pre device (to my knowledge) that will have the HP logo on it. HP needs to set itself up as a manufacturer that is aimed at both business and entertainment with the Pre3. And maybe you are not aware of trends, but right now Beats audio seems to be the new trend. Teenagers are buying their headphones even though they cost $200, so seeing a phone that has it built in is just another thing for them to get. Take for instance the Touchpad, HP was marketing/is still marketing that it will be one of the best tablets for gaming. So, you may even see later on this summer them market the pre3 as a gaming headset. Is that what you have come to love about the pre3? Maybe not. But, the world doesn't revolve around you, it is about getting a headset out to the market and making it unique and able to really compete.

    You think that I believe Beats audio is the only thing that they can do to separate themselves, and you're wrong. I was merely just discussing it because that is what this thread is titled: "Pre 3 has beats audio." They do need to have more than just Beats audio to make their headset good, but MY point is that it is just one more thing for them to market on. The more things you have to market on the better. I was merely arguing that Beats audio is one feature that they can market to teenagers or young adults, because it makes the phone appear more than just a business phone.

    Finally, I do understand how the industry works. You have already seen examples such as the Galaxy Tab which was changed before production, and the Droid Bionic which has changed before its launch next month as well. Both devices were seen earlier this year and have changed. Obviously you don't understand that manufacturers have to constantly compete with new technology and other manufacturers offering something better. You are trying to smear me by assuming I am talking about them overhauling the pre3 and I said nothing of the sort. Adding in Beats audio (or if it was already there and apologies I did not know about it but according to what you are saying you all of a sudden did know but said nothing about it before) is hardly an overhaul or dramatic change. Tomorrow it could be announced that they changed the camera from a 5MP to a 8MP, would that be so outrageous for you to believe? Oh yeah that's right they already changed the WebOS from 2.2 to 2.3 but no that can't be right because manufacturers never change stuff from when it is announced.
  11. #31  
    Don't be surprised when this Beats Audio feature is nothing more than a EQ gimmick.
  12. #32  
    I'm probably more of an audiophile than most here on this forum..

    and let me just explain this to you: Beats audio is not a gimmick, but Cantaffordit is right. It's all about the audio jack.

    Lets say I hook up my phone, or an iPod, or even my computer via 3.5mm analog connection to my HT receiver. There is a very high probability that the components inside the phone, iPod, or computer will / can create noise, artifacts, unwanted sounds, that you may or may not hear during playback. It is a fact that with my laptop, if I hook it up to my receiver via 3.5mm cable with the power cord plugged in, and the HDMI cable is not plugged in as well (I.E. acting as a ground), there's a VERY loud and noticeable 'buzz'. 99/100 of you wouldn't even care about it, but to me, my god I can't effing stand it.

    Beats audio takes a 3.5mm jack, eliminates this buzz, and all unwanted noise, by giving all audio internal connections their separate channels / wires, plus extra power (this does NOT mean louder). This means crystal clear music, COMPARING TO, but NEVER surpassing, digital audio (which is the CREME of the cake when it comes to audio, until you get into the tube amp tier).

    Say thank you everybody, I hope this clears everything up.

    Beats has nothing to do with the speakers on the device.
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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Or it could be a mistake and was copy pasted from the TP specs which makes the most sense.

    Hardware changes to "have an edge" are almost never done after revealing the specs of a product because they are complicated, take more time and money and generally are not done. Usually a company would wait for the next version to do those changes.
    Watching the video from the HP Discover conference I noticed that the HP rep demoing the TouchPad told the audience that it had been through several major internal revisions since the Think Beyond event.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    Nice, it would be great if the Pre 3 comes with beats headphones as well.
    Yes that would be nice...but I don't see it happening with Beats headset running $150+. Either way, I've checked them out on the Beats Audio laptop HP has on display in Best Buy and the headset are SWEET. To be honest, I'd love to know and see a comparison between Beats, Bose, and other highend headsets used with the Touchpad and Pre3.

    I think audio is going to make a HUGE difference when comparing the Touchpad to everything else. Android has nothing going for it audio wise and iPad may have the mindset, but they don't provide very much with their white ear buds. Sorli...
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    Beats has nothing to do with the speakers on the device.
    Then why sell Beats audio heads for $150+ if speakers make no difference. Actually, that is also a good question, can any audio headsets be used and playback Beats audio output? If the speakers only provide better dynamics by using better drivers (speakers are providing and outputting more highs and lows) I'm guessing I can buy Bose heads on sale if and when I find them at a better price.

    Everything comes down to price and I'm just happy HP owns Beats audio technology. Sorli...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by sorli View Post
    Then why sell Beats audio heads for $150+ if speakers make no difference. Actually, that is also a good question, can any audio headsets be used and playback Beats audio output? If the speakers only provide better dynamics by using better drivers (speakers are providing and outputting more highs and lows) I'm guessing I can buy Bose heads on sale if and when I find them at a better price.

    Everything comes down to price and I'm just happy HP owns Beats audio technology. Sorli...
    Beats headsets are just that... normal headsets. $150 is a fair price for decent headsets (when I say decent, I mean really really good to the 'average' consumer).

    A device with "beats audio" either has "beats audio" or it doesn't. There's no way to turn it off.. it's all in the wiring internal. There's no equalizer, there's no special equipment required, there's no way to not use it, it's just there. It doesn't change the audio stream coming out of your computer, it doesn't enhance it, it doesn't filter it, it doesn't cancel anything out, it just *prevents* distortion by wiring correctly, which is what the industry has ignored for so long because most people don't care about it. It's not designed for audiophiles, but average people won't notice a difference.

    Beats headsets have nothing to do with beats audio, but they do work very well together, because the very nature of beats audio excells at bringing non-low-grade cans and monitors to life.

    Once again, beats does not mean the speakers on your touchpad will magically sound phenomenal, nor does it mean it will take your crappy 128kb mp3 and make it sound like the CD. If the source is bad, nothing will make it sound any better. All it means is less or no distortion, and theoretical higher dynamic range.
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  17. #37  
    I had a huge reply typed up, but after re-reading it, I discovered that I simply can't address all the misinformation in this thread without the likelihood of insulting someone, so I'm just going to wipe my hands of it. I'll just say that many of you clearly want to believe whatever the marketers tell you.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    A device with "beats audio" either has "beats audio" or it doesn't. There's no way to turn it off.. it's all in the wiring internal. There's no equalizer, there's no special equipment required, there's no way to not use it, it's just there. It doesn't change the audio stream coming out of your computer, it doesn't enhance it, it doesn't filter it, it doesn't cancel anything out, it just *prevents* distortion by wiring correctly, which is what the industry has ignored for so long because most people don't care about it. It's not designed for audiophiles, but average people won't notice a difference.

    Beats headsets have nothing to do with beats audio, but they do work very well together, because the very nature of beats audio excells at bringing non-low-grade cans and monitors to life.
    Fn-B turns off Beats Audio on HP laptops that have it. So...
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  19. #39  
    Fn-B. What an awful button, that B is.

    That's just the software HP installs on the computer, it's their equalizer and nobody should ever use it.. beats is all about the internals.

    Let me rephrase that: nobody should ever use it when plugged into external source, when using tiny laptop speakers it will probably make it sound better... which is fine
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  20. #40  
    From page 33 of the HP Envy 13's manual:

    Using Beats Audio

    Beats Audio is an enhanced audio profile that provides a deep controlled bass while maintaining a clear sound. Beats Audio is enabled by default. [implying it can be turned off]
    http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c01937370.pdf
    Touchscreens are a fad.
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