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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote
    plus it looks like HP is dumping its loyal Pre fans, thereby sending a signal to the market that HP is not competitive with Apple in terms of customer service.

    I'm not sure "the market" cares much about a couple thousand jilted users on a (for now) stagnant platform. In my experience, not many folks in the real world care about how a company treats a vocal minority who want to run the newest software on 2-year-old hardware, in an industry where upgrading hardware every year is becoming the norm. Nor can I blame them.

    That said, you're right in that Apple is a customer service leader, and will be very difficult to match, let alone beat.
  2. #22  
    They can't announce it yet. You'll hear it officially before they tell some random person.
    Help keep WebOS homebrew alive! Donate to WebOS Internals!

    Sprint Pre Plus - WebOS 2.1.0 - F105 Thunderchief Kernel

    Einhorn is Finkel! ... Finkel is Einhorn!

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    That said, you're right in that Apple is a customer service leader, and will be very difficult to match, let alone beat.
    Apple's customer service is great partially because they care and partially because their customer base is accomodating to them. It's not hard for a company to have great custmer service. They just have to emphasize it in training and in corporate philosophy. Look at Sprint now and Sprint a few years ago. It just takes effort and commitment. A lot of companies who rate poorly on customer service just don't get that.
  4. #24  
    At least you got an honest answer this time, instead of the usual rep doubletalk. But you should have seen it coming. Basically he was saying, "You'll know about it when/if we make an official announcement."

    Can we stop pestering Sprint now? Finally? Please?
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    plus it looks like HP is dumping its loyal Pre fans, thereby sending a signal to the market that HP is not competitive with Apple in terms of customer service.
    Are you referring to the topic at hand, Sprint? Or are you referring to not putting software on outdated hardware?

    Either way this is not a 100% HP decision, carriers approve software as well and for the general public carriers take the majority of customer assistance calls.


    No matter what, you aren't going to get anything official from Sprint until something is official from HP (could be announced at the same event, but you won't get it from the carrier without the manufacturer). The other thing for everyone to remember in this game is pricing, carriers subsidize the phones so that will have to be set by the carriers, and if we see anything with the Pre3 like we have seen with the Veer this could be part of the delay (Veer launched at 3 price points after subsidy).
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    At least you got an honest answer this time, instead of the usual rep doubletalk. But you should have seen it coming. Basically he was saying, "You'll know about it when/if we make an official announcement."

    Can we stop pestering Sprint now? Finally? Please?
    I think we should do the opposite. They are very impressed by the amount of interest in the webOS devices that is being generated by our little community and I think the more people let them know that they want this product on Sprint network, the more likely we will get them to listen to us!
    So she asked: "What is it with you? Is it ignorance, or is it apathy? And I answered: "I don't know and I don't care."
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Are you referring to the topic at hand, Sprint? Or are you referring to not putting software on outdated hardware?
    I am referring to the topic of Ruby's promise of doing "something special" for "those people" and since "those people" are mostly on Sprint and we haven't heard anything much since from HP about this promise, I suspect we will hear something around new hardware announcement (if anything at all) from HP to the likes of : "sorry we wanted to do something special but since we couldn't reach a carrier agreement with Sprint, we were unable to fulfill this promise, so sorry, but feel free to shell out termination fees and buy our new hardware on X carrier as our new hardware is so great". This would be consistent with their inability to be upfront with their existing base.
    Or maybe they won't say anything at all but hope to bury it under their press about the new devices, since Ruby seems to feel existing webOS base is practically non-existent, although I notice he felt free at his press conference to trumpet webOS win from enthusiastic fans in Laptop Mag poll.

    And if I sound disappointed I am. Mostly because I increasingly suspect HP does not "get" that Apple wins in the ecosystem because it supports its customers--that the consumer buy-in to the "experience" is also based on the lifecycle of the device and what happens when one needs to reach out to HP for customer support.

    But I'm open to having my mind changed in the next month.


    Engadget: So the original devices... they're not getting an update?

    Jon: No. But we're going to do something special for those people.

    Palm rep: We want to support our existing customer base.

    Jon: We'll do something. The older devices simply don't have the horsepower.

    The Engadget Interview: Jon Rubinstein and Steven McArthur talk webOS on PCs, 'Music Synergy,' competition, and more -- Engadget
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    I am referring to the topic of Ruby's promise of doing "something special" for "those people" and since "those people" are mostly on Sprint and we haven't heard anything much since from HP about this promise, I suspect we will hear something around new hardware announcement (if anything at all) from HP to the likes of : "sorry we wanted to do something special but since we couldn't reach a carrier agreement with Sprint, we were unable to fulfill this promise, so sorry, but feel free to shell out termination fees and buy our new hardware on X carrier as our new hardware is so great". This would be consistent with their inability to be upfront with their existing base.
    Or maybe they won't say anything at all but hope to bury it under their press about the new devices, since Ruby seems to feel existing webOS base is practically non-existent, although I notice he felt free at his press conference to trumpet webOS win from enthusiastic fans in Laptop Mag poll.

    And if I sound disappointed I am. Mostly because I increasingly suspect HP does not "get" that Apple wins in the ecosystem because it supports its customers--that the consumer buy-in to the "experience" is also based on the lifecycle of the device and what happens when one needs to reach out to HP for customer support.

    But I'm open to having my mind changed in the next month.


    Engadget: So the original devices... they're not getting an update?

    Jon: No. But we're going to do something special for those people.

    Palm rep: We want to support our existing customer base.

    Jon: We'll do something. The older devices simply don't have the horsepower.

    The Engadget Interview: Jon Rubinstein and Steven McArthur talk webOS on PCs, 'Music Synergy,' competition, and more -- Engadget
    I dunno about early termination, since lots of us will be out of contract coming up here pretty soon. For those that already reup'd with Sprint, they made that gamble when they went to another platform from WebOS and signed 2 years with Sprint. Can't put HP on the hook for every decision a consumer makes.

    HP can't make Sprint carry the phones, and as we all know if Sprint isn't willing to subsidize, HP can't come out with a device priced out of it's market. I am a long time Sprint customer, but unfortunately this is how the US cell phone market is. All of this and what not are going a long way towards me considering switching to GSM when my contract is up. This isn't HP's fault, it is the fault of the way CDMA carriers operate in the US, I could go get to Veer's for free right now, and then buy an unlocked Pre3 when they come out...

    All this talk about Apple supporting their customers, they signed a 3 year exclusivity with AT&T telling all their customers "you must use this carrier in the US". So in that sense I wouldn't say they are any better or worse than HP.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    .
    I've been tracking company mgt pronouncements for a long time and what I've noticed is that the good leaders don't make promises they can't keep but rather consider ramifications upfront and market characteristics before they speak (as after all, they are getting paid the $$$ to know their markets). The bad leaders go ahead and make promises for their own self-interest or just poor judgement and then make a string of apologies afterwards. And small decisions reveal this trait which also carries into the large strategic decisions...--

    "it wasn't my fault, that's the way the market is "etc.
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    plus it looks like HP is dumping its loyal Pre fans, thereby sending a signal to the market that HP is not competitive with Apple in terms of customer service.
    You're not loyal to Palm or webOS. You're loyal to Sprint. If you were loyal to Palm or webOS, you'd move to the network that offers you the phone.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    You're not loyal to Palm or webOS. You're loyal to Sprint. If you were loyal to Palm or webOS, you'd move to the network that offers you the phone.
    Wow, that is messed up. Having sold a bunch of Pre and PrePlus devices to others and supported their owners as well as keeping the one I have, any company would be absolutely thrilled to have such a customer.
  12. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Wow, that is messed up. Having sold a bunch of Pre and PrePlus devices to others and supported their owners as well as keeping the one I have, any company would be absolutely thrilled to have such a customer.
    But, you're more worried about the device being on Sprint than the device itself. You're not my customer, you're Sprint's customer. Sprint should be thrilled to have you a customer because you'll sell Sprint contracts and support devices that are on those contracts.

    If you were a webOS or HP customer, you'd be more interested in getting the device than the network. However, I understand why people want to stay on Sprint due to the price and/or coverage Sprint offers in their area. But, the crying that Sprint users do about how they've been wronged by one corporation because they aren't being fluffed because you purchased a Palm phone in 2009 is silly. Sprint chooses what devices are on their network. Not Palm or HP. If Sprint wanted a webOS device, they could have them. Sprint has gone all-in with Android. At&t and Verizon seem much more interested in having a broader portfolio of phones to offer their customers. That's Sprint's problem, not HP or Palms. HP wants the devices on as many networks as possible so more consumers can get the phone.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    Sprint should be thrilled to have you a customer because you'll sell Sprint contracts and support devices that are on those contracts.

    Sprint chooses what devices are on their network. Not Palm or HP.
    Go back and re-read my posts. Also it would be good if you would understand the market and how negotiations work better.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by chertik0ff View Post
    I think we should do the opposite. They are very impressed by the amount of interest in the webOS devices that is being generated by our little community and I think the more people let them know that they want this product on Sprint network, the more likely we will get them to listen to us!

    Personally, I think that is the problem its just "our little community" -- and I think Sprint knows that. If they get 10,000 people asking for the Pre3 they cannot make a logical jump to say those 10,000 people actually represent 1 million people.

    I think Sprint could look at their jumping into the deep end with the Pre- and see that most of the people who had them have moved onto another platform or left the carrier and think carrying the Pre3 may be a mistake.

    No one knows what is going to happen, there certainly IS interest but it will be up to Sprint to decide if there is enough interest and if the financials of a deal with HP make sense. If either of those fall into the con list for carrying the Pre3 I think Sprint will not carry it.
  15. #35  
    it's not about the money...sprint is a service...has to be something no ones knows about...when I first started with sprint 12 years ago I was shocked at the selection of phones they carried...now and days there stores are not appealing at all....but it seems everytime I log into there website they've updated it....just give me my severance pay and i'll give you back my draw full of sprint phones and i'll call you in the morning
  16. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Go back and re-read my posts. Also it would be good if you would understand the market and how negotiations work better.
    I do understand the market and how negotiations work. If a requirement for you to own a phone is that it's on Sprint, then that's up to Sprint. All you can do as a consumer is to alert to HP and Sprint that you want the devices. Sprint will end up with a new webOS device at some point. Everyone will have it. It's just when. Because Sprint hasn't had a new device in two years, Sprint webOS users are the most anxious for the device but if you're a webOS fan, you should have seen the writing on the wall when the new devices have gone to Verizon and At&t. It's stupid to lead on a third rate network when HP can have access to the two largest networks.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    ...
    And if I sound disappointed I am. Mostly because I increasingly suspect HP does not "get" that Apple wins in the ecosystem because it supports its customers--that the consumer buy-in to the "experience" is also based on the lifecycle of the device and what happens when one needs to reach out to HP for customer support.

    But I'm open to having my mind changed in the next month.
    ...
    No, you don't sound "disappointed", frankly you sound like you're whining, and imposing imaginary scenarios for situations that don't exist.

    In your imaginary world, let's say some of the things happen as you describe, and Sprinte doesn't carry the new phones - what would you suggest HP do to make you happy?
    Last edited by hparsons; 05/25/2011 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Edited to remove "name calling"
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    I do understand the market and how negotiations work...that's up to Sprint.
    No, sorry, you don't.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    But, you're more worried about the device being on Sprint than the device itself. You're not my customer, you're Sprint's customer. Sprint should be thrilled to have you a customer because you'll sell Sprint contracts and support devices that are on those contracts.

    If you were a webOS or HP customer, you'd be more interested in getting the device than the network. However, I understand why people want to stay on Sprint due to the price and/or coverage Sprint offers in their area. But, the crying that Sprint users do about how they've been wronged by one corporation because they aren't being fluffed because you purchased a Palm phone in 2009 is silly. Sprint chooses what devices are on their network. Not Palm or HP. If Sprint wanted a webOS device, they could have them. Sprint has gone all-in with Android. At&t and Verizon seem much more interested in having a broader portfolio of phones to offer their customers. That's Sprint's problem, not HP or Palms. HP wants the devices on as many networks as possible so more consumers can get the phone.
    Hear hear!!! The fact is that most of the Pre early adopters with Sprint are about to hit the end of their contracts. We can choose to stay with Sprint, and hope they carry the Pre. We can choose to stay with Sprint and move to another device. Or we can choose to go to another carrier.

    What we shouldn't expect is that HP is going to give us something for staying with Sprint and getting another device.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    But, you're more worried about the device being on Sprint than the device itself. You're not my customer, you're Sprint's customer. Sprint should be thrilled to have you a customer because you'll sell Sprint contracts and support devices that are on those contracts.

    If you were a webOS or HP customer, you'd be more interested in getting the device than the network. However, I understand why people want to stay on Sprint due to the price and/or coverage Sprint offers in their area. But, the crying that Sprint users do about how they've been wronged by one corporation because they aren't being fluffed because you purchased a Palm phone in 2009 is silly. Sprint chooses what devices are on their network. Not Palm or HP. If Sprint wanted a webOS device, they could have them. Sprint has gone all-in with Android. At&t and Verizon seem much more interested in having a broader portfolio of phones to offer their customers. That's Sprint's problem, not HP or Palms. HP wants the devices on as many networks as possible so more consumers can get the phone.
    Thats not the case at all. I think you can be loyal to both a carrier and platform. The way wireless companies have set up shop makes that entirely possible because carriers get exclusives and also will not support devices that could work on their networks if another carrier sells them such as Verizon and Sprint. Just because someone does not want to leave their carrier for whatever reason does not mean they are also not a customer of whatever platform they choose. I can buy a touchstone off of Amazon for cheap but I can also pay more and buy it from HP. Does that mean I'm not a customer of HP even though I am shopping for their product?

    I don't think Sprint users are "crying" about not being "fluffed". You've missed the whole point if you think that's the case. These are their most loyal fans and they are walking around with old hardware and software showing passion towards their product by pressuring both HP and Sprint to release a new device so they can purchase it. That's what fans do.

    Sprint has carried just as much variety as other networks minus iOS. Walk into a Sprint store and you will find Android, RIM, and WP7 phones. It wasn't long ago that you could purchase the Pixie too. Yes Sprint gets to choose what devices they carry but their customers can help steer those decisions too. Do you think they don't want to sell the iPhone because they currently don't carry that phone? It could be entirely possible Sprint tried to carry the Pre 3 but couldn't because of deals HP struck with other carriers. Its not always as simple as "If Sprint wanted a webOS device, they could have them. "
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