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  1. i_maq's Avatar
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    #61  
    Seriously, to all the people who think the Pre3's hardware isn't that good compared to the new Android phones, stop crying and go get an Android quad core 5ghz 52gb ram 10" 1920x1080 display phone then let us know how enjoyable it is to use. Jeez.
  2. #62  
    @i_maq

    It wouldn't even be that fast, because Android is still crap! To quote some of the famous WebOS haters.. "Android would STILL lag even on a 5ghz quad core CPU!!!!"
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  3. Loiter's Avatar
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post

    HP made a good decision going with the single core 1.4 ghz CPU, IMO - the ONLY mistake they made, I believe, was not going with more RAM - 512 mb is (and I could be wrong, but, I don't think so) too small for an OS like WebOS, that is built and designed to have many user-initiated applications (cards) open at the same time, and left open - that can be a performance issue relative to the amount of RAM each open app takes up - they should have recognized this, IMO, and put 1G or more of RAM in there.

    Nice interesting thread. About RAM, I don't know if you have a webOS phone right now and which one, but I must say in my Pre2 I don't have any problems up until now.
    Just to check it out I just opened almost instantly Calendar, Facebook, Preware, Aniweather, Music Player Remix, E-mail and Messaging.
    And without waiting (because FB, Weather, PW and E-mail have to connect and sync) I started swiping back and forth (I have the advanced gesture in order to move from app to app) without any problems. I'm talking about 7 apps which in most cases you wouldn't open at the same time which also need to use my wifi. Of course a bit more RAM would always be more helpful. I'm not saying that I've never experienced any lag, but the webOS multitasking is one of the best things I've ever seen.

    And to continue from that, not every OS needs the same horsepower. I've been reading some Nokia N8 vs Android topics and the Android guys would bash the Nokia because of its specs. Well Symbian needs less horsepower (apart from the fact that the latest symbian OS was not good). The same goes for webOS I think.
    It's not always the specs. It's true there are some phones that have the specs and the beauty (like the Samsung Galaxy which is a great phone), but especially when talking about Android phones there a lot of crappy ones which "on paper" seem very good and in real life just suck.

    To conclude, I believe that the specs are not always so important and I believe that in general there are not so many people that judge mostly by specs. I believe that other things (for example: available apps) are most important for most people when buying a phone. Unfortunately apps is another weakness of webOS.
  4. #64  
    its important to remember that the only reason Android phones are so powerful is because they need a reason to differentiate themselves from one another. webOS phones are able to differentiate themselves by virtue of them running webOS. as long as the hardware is sufficient, it really doesnt matter how many terabytes of RAM it has compared to the HTC Droid Bionic Incredible Thunderbolt XYZ.
  5. gbp
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    What do they look at? The spec card is usually right there next to the phone.
    They look at the "looks" of the phone. In any of the mobile stores people pick the phone only if they like how it looks. Once they pick it up then they start exploring.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygewitter View Post
    i don't understand it, everyone looks at the specs and complains about ghz and mb - they don't matter that much. if the pre3 runs webos fast without any performance problems, who cares if it's not dual core or "only" 1.4ghz. specs and custom ui are the only things for htc, samsung, etc to make their phones "visible" among all the other phones which are essentially the same.
    and you'd have to use android, which of course has its good sides, but it's a very different os, personally i don't like it at all. if you have used it and are happy, then, sure, go for it, but imo it's very naive to think the new htsamsony unbelievable3000 is a better phone just because of some numbers...
    i'm not saying the pre3 is superior in every way, but there's just so much more that should be considered than how many cores the cpu has or if the display has 34.5 pixels more.
    The way I like to explain it is, it's like cars. If you have a lightweight chassis, you don't need a monster gas guzzler engine to make it go fast.

    To me Android is like a heavy family sedan. WebOS is more like a Lotus Elise. The Crown Vic with a V8 may not necessarily be faster than the Elise with a 4 banger.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

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  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    The way I like to explain it is, it's like cars. If you have a lightweight chassis, you don't need a monster gas guzzler engine to make it go fast.

    To me Android is like a heavy family sedan. WebOS is more like a Lotus Elise. The Crown Vic with a V8 may not necessarily be faster than the Elise with a 4 banger.
    True that!
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  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    The way I like to explain it is, it's like cars. If you have a lightweight chassis, you don't need a monster gas guzzler engine to make it go fast.

    To me Android is like a heavy family sedan. WebOS is more like a Lotus Elise. The Crown Vic with a V8 may not necessarily be faster than the Elise with a 4 banger.
    Did you just say webos was lighter than android? Look at the original Droid to the pre and tell me which is more stable.

    (Both have the same hardware, droid just has bigger and higher res screen.)

    iOS on the other hand is on a whole different level os speed wise.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    Did you just say webos was lighter than android? Look at the original Droid to the pre and tell me which is more stable.

    (Both have the same hardware, droid just has bigger and higher res screen.)

    iOS on the other hand is on a whole different level os speed wise.
    I didn't mention anything about stability. Granted, webOS 1.x is built like prototype software, not to mention its HORRIBLE memory management (read: TMCs).

    Have you see 2.x in action on a Pre 2? Pre 2 is NOWHERE near cutting edge hardware, but it runs just as smooth as any other smartphone on the market. This is the "lightness" I'm referring to.

    The "lightness" I'm talking about is more akin to Palm OS running on a Dragonball VZ with 8MB vs Windows CE running on an XScale with 128MB RAM. Both OSes were horrible in terms of stability, especially for Palm OS after it was rewritten for StrongARM in 4.x and 5.x.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    I didn't mention anything about stability. Granted, webOS 1.x is built like prototype software, not to mention its HORRIBLE memory management (read: TMCs).

    Have you see 2.x in action on a Pre 2? Pre 2 is NOWHERE near cutting edge hardware, but it runs just as smooth as any other smartphone on the market. This is the "lightness" I'm referring to.

    The "lightness" I'm talking about is more akin to Palm OS running on a Dragonball VZ with 8MB vs Windows CE running on an XScale with 128MB RAM. Both OSes were horrible in terms of stability, especially for Palm OS after it was rewritten for StrongARM in 4.x and 5.x.
    Have you seen Android 2.3 on the nexus one? It's NOWHERE near cutting edge hardware, but it runs just as smooth as any other smartphone on the market.

    I don't really follow your last post... I don't know much of Palm OS and all that other stuff.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    Have you seen Android 2.3 on the nexus one? It's NOWHERE near cutting edge hardware, but it runs just as smooth as any other smartphone on the market.

    I don't really follow your last post... I don't know much of Palm OS and all that other stuff.
    Actually the Nexus One is pretty standard hardware on par with what's on the market, not counting the dual core ones (how many of them are anyways?). At least it has a Snapdragon. Whereas the Pre 2 is closer to an iPhone 3GS with the OMAP3.

    A better example is my Pre Classic running 2.1. Runs much better than 1.4.5 on my Pre Plus.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    Actually the Nexus One is pretty standard hardware on par with what's on the market, not counting the dual core ones (how many of them are anyways?). At least it has a Snapdragon. Whereas the Pre 2 is closer to an iPhone 3GS with the OMAP3.

    A better example is my Pre Classic running 2.1. Runs much better than 1.4.5 on my Pre Plus.
    How is Pre2 on par with 3GS? The CPU/GPU on Pre2 is better than Nexus 1. It does have a lower res screen however the screen size compensates for it as PPI is higher than iphone 3GS.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by sapient2k7 View Post
    How is Pre2 on par with 3GS? The CPU/GPU on Pre2 is better than Nexus 1. It does have a lower res screen however the screen size compensates for it as PPI is higher than iphone 3GS.
    lower res than the 3GS?
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    Actually the Nexus One is pretty standard hardware on par with what's on the market, not counting the dual core ones (how many of them are anyways?). At least it has a Snapdragon. Whereas the Pre 2 is closer to an iPhone 3GS with the OMAP3.

    A better example is my Pre Classic running 2.1. Runs much better than 1.4.5 on my Pre Plus.
    The Nexus one has an QSD8250 1st generation Snapdragon processor. The Pre 2 has a TI OMAP3630. That is the same processor that is in the Droid 2 and Droid X. Both are more powerful than the Nexus one. Dual cores don't actually help any OS right now besides Honeycomb. It won't help anything until an OS is optimized to run dual core processors.

    Same can be said about my old Hero running 2.3 instead of 2.1.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    The way I like to explain it is, it's like cars. If you have a lightweight chassis, you don't need a monster gas guzzler engine to make it go fast.

    To me Android is like a heavy family sedan. WebOS is more like a Lotus Elise. The Crown Vic with a V8 may not necessarily be faster than the Elise with a 4 banger.
    I was thinking more like a Volvo 240D wagon. Now there is a tank for ya!
  16. JLegacy's Avatar
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    #76  
    Have you see 2.x in action on a Pre 2? Pre 2 is NOWHERE near cutting edge hardware, but it runs just as smooth as any other smartphone on the market. This is the "lightness" I'm referring to.
    The Pre 2 has a great processor / GPU combo running it. It has 512MB of RAM, and a lower screen resolution than your average android phone. What are you smoking?
    Peace, Freedom, Prosperity.

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  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    This thread is becoming a treasure trove of great knowledge.

    Anyways, as to whether or not consumers care about specs: they do, but only if they can't play with the device in the store. You're example says that the person goes in and just reads the specs in the store... What? They don't engage with the device?

    That's not how it works; everyone messes with the devices. If they feel fast and perform well, then the specs begin to matter very little.
    Well, Im not exactly sure about that last statement being true.

    Eliminating gender, race, religion, location and other cultural biases (finngirl would be better to clearly explain the marketting applications of using these factors to determine ad campaigns), there are probably a good 5+ different types of smartphone users:

    1. The gagdet person - might have more than one smartphone, knows how to customize it, and is up on the latest technology for each device. Modifies his/her device in every way possible, as a hobby.

    2. The heavy user - needs and uses a device for a significant part of his/her existence, and his/her reliance forces him/her to learn how to modify the device, though, he/she might not really like doing it.

    3. Business user/executive - gets his/her phone from the company, isnt allowed, nor does he/she care to modify it, and just wants it to work right.

    4. Average phone/consumer - likes the latest and greatest fad device, pays attention to and is heavily influenced by what his/her friends have, doesn't do a whole lot of research into what differentiates the device other than what is readily available in TV or internet ads/commercials. Wouldn't think of modifying his/her device, unless its something an app he/he can download and perform the modification on its own.

    5. Light phone consumer - a cell phone is just that, a cell phone.This consumer doesnt want, or need, it to do anything more than place calls and have an address book. They want it small, light, inocuous, and uncomplicated to work. They wouldn't modify the device in any way, because they would be afraid to void the warranty.

    Generally speaking, that's what I see, and most consumers are in the 3 - 4 range, with the absolute majority in the 3 - 5 category

    PreCentral users would, for example, have mostly 1 and 1 category users as members...

    IMO, of course.
    Last edited by LCGuy; 05/13/2011 at 07:21 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  18. gbp
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    4. Average phone/consumer - likes the latest and greatest fad device, pays attention to and is heavily influenced by what his/her friends have, doesn't do a whole lot of research into what differentiates the device other than what is readily available in TV or internet ads/commercials. Wouldn't think of modifying his/her device, unless its something an app he/he can download and perform the modification on its own.

    5. Light phone consumer - a cell phone is just that, a cell phone.This consumer doesnt want, or need, it to do anything more than place calls and have an address book. They want it small, light, inocuous, and uncomplicated to work. They wouldn't modify the device in any way, because they would be afraid to void the warranty.
    Well said.
    Vast majority of the existing smartphone users are No 4. Veer is an attempt to get No 5's into No 4.Every company has to target the No.4's for sales.

    Back on the topic, Specs are not the top priority for the No 4's.
    Last edited by gbp; 05/13/2011 at 07:06 AM. Reason: Add more
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by sapient2k7 View Post
    How is Pre2 on par with 3GS? The CPU/GPU on Pre2 is better than Nexus 1. It does have a lower res screen however the screen size compensates for it as PPI is higher than iphone 3GS.
    To clarify:

    Up until the iPhne 4, the iPhone had a screen pixel size of 320 x 480 on a 3.5" diagnal screen.

    The Pre had the same screen pixel size (320 x 480) on a smaller screen (3.1" diagnal).

    The resolution, or screen density, can be measured in dots per square inch, or per lineal diagnal inch, and, its clear to see that the dots are closer together, giving a higher resolution/screen density for the Pre line of devices.

    When the iPhone came out with its Retina display of 960 x 640 on the same 3.5" diagnal screen, the resolution/screen density quadroupled, hence the finer picture.

    The owrd "resolution" is often ignorantly misused in marketting and by critics - it really means screen density, and NOT screen size.

    Sorry, pet peave of mine.

    And, back on topic:

    The Pre3's 3.58" diagnal screen with 800 x 480 pixels is probably at the very edge of what the average human eye (with 20/20 vision) is capable of percieving regarding detail - Apple's retina display is well beyond it, but, that insures that everyone will get the very best viewing experience, no matter how fine their vision is (some people do have better than 20/20 vision).
    Last edited by LCGuy; 05/13/2011 at 07:25 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  20. #80  
    People tends to take only the absolute values to compare, and this is wrong. While the Pre3 will have a screen density lower than iPhone4, it isn't going to be too much lower.

    Pre 186 PPI
    Pre3 260 PPI
    iPhone 4 329 PPI

    While the iPhone 4 screen is sharper, the Pre3 screen is much sharper than original Pre's screens, and definitely a great improvement.
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