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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Spec's don't matter, it's the experience the device delivers that matter. I'd gladly take a 500 GHz w/ 256MB ram device that outperforms a 1GHz w/ 512MB ram device.
    Specs sell...everyone wants the 4g's and a large number of people didnt pick up the Verizon iPhones because of the June release or the iPhone 5(which may be on hold). To say specs dont sell would undervalue your retina display that they bable about on Engadget daily.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    Specs sell...everyone wants the 4g's and a large number of people didnt pick up the Verizon iPhones because of the June release or the iPhone 5(which may be on hold). To say specs dont sell would undervalue your retina display that they bable about on Engadget daily.
    Ask the average iPhone user what their CPU is clocked at.. And I highly doubt many users didn't pick up an iPhone 4 due to lack of "4G". A well-informed consumer would be smart to wait for the iPhone 5 knowing it's a few short months away.

    And sure, specs do sell but to a small percentage. Your vast majority of consumers don't walk into AT&T, Verizon, etc. looking to compare gigahertz, megapixels, etc. They compare the experience.
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Spec's don't matter, it's the experience the device delivers that matter. I'd gladly take a 500 GHz w/ 256MB ram device that outperforms a 1GHz w/ 512MB ram device.
    But they usually don't, that's the point.

    Increases in hardware go a long way to improving the experience that you're talking about.

    My point in this thread was about Rubinstein's inability to sell me on this phone and how bad he did on the Engadget show in general.
    The specs are just one thing he could have offered up in the interview but he didn't, instead he couldn't even name then when asked directly.
    There are many exciting features of this phone but I don't think Jon understands what they are quite frankly.
    Especially if he really is using a Veer as his main phone as he said, then I really don't think he's making and marketing devices towards me.

    Who other than tech junkies are watching the Engadget Show anyway?
    Does anyone think that Rubinstein did anything at all to even slightly impress an Engadget viewer who is reading tech news & articles on a daily basis?
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chromeo View Post
    But they usually don't, that's the point.

    Increases in hardware go a long way to improving the experience that you're talking about.

    My point in this thread was about Rubinstein's inability to sell me on this phone and how bad he did on the Engadget show in general.
    The specs are just one thing he could have offered up in the interview but he didn't, instead he couldn't even name then when asked directly.
    There are many exciting features of this phone but I don't think Jon understands what they are quite frankly.
    Especially if he really is using a Veer as his main phone as he said, then I really don't think he's making and marketing devices towards me.

    Who other than tech junkies are watching the Engadget Show anyway?
    Does anyone think that Rubinstein did anything at all to even slightly impress an Engadget viewer who is reading tech news & articles on a daily basis?
    No, I get your point but honestly, he shouldn't be trying to sell specs, he should be trying to sell an experience.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    No, I get your point but honestly, he shouldn't be trying to sell specs, he should be trying to sell an experience.
    It's one thing for Apple to market this "specs don't matter..its about experience" to the masses. It's another for this forum to accept it.

    If this were a car site, or a cooking site i might agree. For them, only the experience might matter. This is a tech forum. Specs matter. That was an engadget show. Specs matter.

    That's not to say techies don't care about experience, but we wanna know the specs too.

    For example, the ipad 2 offers a faster, smoother experience (than the first one). It might have something to do with those improved specs. Yeah, i know..they don't matter. It would've been interesting to see reviewers reactions if they had no indication whatsoever about the new specs. Would they know what to look for? Specs are indicators about experience. But that's not to say that a good experience necessarily follows..so we have reviews. Nothing new going on here.
    Last edited by cardfan; 03/29/2011 at 07:08 AM.
  6. #146  
    We don't know experience because Jon wouldn't show us frikin experience, and when Josh asked him about specs so people could guess experience Jon doesn't know specs...

    OK, I'm sure Jon knows specs, but from some crazy reason he would not say. Only guy in business ho can play user experience card is Jobs. Pre and existing webOS devices haven't delivered same, or remotely close user experience as Iphone, so Jon's user experience game is ridiculous.
  7. #147  
    I found the interview to be frustrating, if not maddening at times.

    Seemed like they don't get the fact that everyone is tired of their dancing around -- it might as well have been a guy off the street be interviewed as he didn't give any real answers about anything at all.

    Funny how when asked about running Android apps he said they didn't need to focus on that, and that there's a great Kindle app coming -- the fact that there's not even a kindle app for the Pre Plus now is just a sign of how weak HP/Palm is in this area. Man that's some exciting stuff Jon, a Kindle app is coming?! Maybe you should have brought your notes...

    Nothing in this interview made me think there are exciting things on the horizon, as the company has pretty much disappointed on multiple levels in the past.

    The interview was insulting I thought, and just as bad as the Samsung interview months ago where they wouldn't reveal anything at all. If you don't want to tell people anything, don't do interviews.
  8. #148  
    i think this is pretty accurate...

    my kid sister got her first smartphone earlier in the year... an android phone... and i know she didnt know specs... just picked the phone that looked the best for her. later she starts learning apps and asks me if the iphone has an appstore like the android! lol.

    and just the other week she told me she was thinking of getting the iphone4 through some sale best buy was having a couple of weeks ago... no idea of when apple has there june convention... i had told her to wait a few months and a new model will likely be out.

    as long as the specs can give a good performance and responsiveness... then it comes down to what the phone can do for me... the apps.

    i actually dont think it's impossible that iphone5 is pushed back... i think if ios5 is really revamped and the current hardware can handle it and ios5 makes it feel like a totally new phone with new features like the new swipe feature or notification features being hinted at, then that can continue driving sales until they are ready for iphone5.

    after two years i can upgrade from my 3gs but if they have ios5 i can play with that and wait a little longer while having fun on my ipad2 anyways. that's the cool thing with apple is the constant sw upgrades and new features thru the sw upgrades. whats really gonna be that new on the i5... slightly larger screen, aluminum back and a5 processor?

    they can keep running on the ipad2 momentum through xmas imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Ask the average iPhone user what their CPU is clocked at.. And I highly doubt many users didn't pick up an iPhone 4 due to lack of "4G". A well-informed consumer would be smart to wait for the iPhone 5 knowing it's a few short months away.

    And sure, specs do sell but to a small percentage. Your vast majority of consumers don't walk into AT&T, Verizon, etc. looking to compare gigahertz, megapixels, etc. They compare the experience.
    Last edited by donm527; 03/29/2011 at 07:51 AM.
  9. #149  
    I've watched damn thing again, and it was funny at least. I fund myself sincerely laughing more than few times, so if new devices fail in the September 17. summer launch, Jon could be comic relief guest on various conferences and conventions.
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    No, I get your point but honestly, he shouldn't be trying to sell specs, he should be trying to sell an experience.
    The point was that he wasn't selling anything...at all.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    No, I get your point but honestly, he shouldn't be trying to sell specs, he should be trying to sell an experience.
    Consider the audience he was playing to, though.
  12. #152  
    Specs?

    I don't know how to guess that one.

    I see great posts from both views.

    Those who say specs matter may be correct because look how quickly so many run to the latest power pack android.

    But then again,
    Those who say specs don't matter may be correct because people keep using their 2 year old iPhone because they love the ease of use.

    I'm honestly giving my unbiased expression. I can see both arguments as valid.

    Not so much with me; I'm still favoring my old faithful Treo.
    Just call me Berd.
  13. #153  
    I think it boils down to purpose. What purpose did HP have for sending Rubinstein to the Engadget show, and did he accomplish that purpose? Was the purpose really to have a few laughs and show the same features that Engadget showed in all of their coverage and on the Jimmy Fallon show? If not, Rubinstein did a terrible job. If so, what's the point?
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by rkev View Post
    I think it's difficult to argue that specs don't matter...IN THIS SITUATION. You're sitting down for an interview with Engadget. They cover specs extensively. They're going to ask you to confirm yours. You gotta be ready for that stuff.
    Right. Rubinstein didn't shift the focus from specs to experience - he just flat out didn't know. I guess you could make the case that Rubinstein doesn't need to know the specs of his products but this is the same guy that did a presentation on PowerPC vs Intel clock speeds at the PowerBook keynote.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Consider the audience he was playing to, though.
    Well, my contention is.. HP|Palm shouldn't be selling specs, even to this demographics. The specs aren't that impressive to begin with, but that doesn't matter if the experience delivered is above par.

    Jon failed on all levels in this interview, in my opinion. He should have at least come out swinging attempting to deliver an experience that showcased something comparable, if not better than what has recently hit the market.

    Instead, he's left many left wondering "okay, what's really going on? What can I expect?"
  16. #156  
    I think Ruby is having a hard time at HP. He has superiors at HP that he has to answer to, so everything he says in the limelight is something that can really come back against him if he lets too many details slip.

    The difference at Palm was he had all the details and was free to distribute them because he was in charge of the whole company and he could really afford to let details slip. Now I think he knows that this is not his company and he is not calling all the shots anymore and he knows that he's held responsible for everything he says and does.
  17. #157  
    I've been thinking more about why my impression of Jon Rubinstein's appearance was so much more positive than how others here saw it, and it comes down to this: I'm part of the enterprise. I don't buy like a consumer, I don't use like a consumer, and I don't particularly respond to consumer-driven marketing campaigns. Tell me that a device is solid, reliable, responsive, flexible to how I work and allows me to be more productive than I otherwise can be, and I'm sold. That's why I so loved the original Pilot 1000 over the Newton, why Synergy excited me more than a lack of Shazam bothered me, why webOS customization was so appealing, why I have no desire for an iPad even after having had one (while configuring it for my mother) for more than a month, and why I am *very* eager for both the Pre 3 and the TouchPad. I need a workhorse, thanks; I want it to do *work*. (If it's entertaining too, great, but that's not why I buy technology.)

    Apple and Google can and will fight over the consumer space, and HP will be competitive there, but that's not the sweet spot. No one truly owns the enterprise market when it comes to modern smartphones and tablets, and HP is very clearly (and rightly) putting its primary focus there. Apple may sell one device at a time to millions of people, but HP has unique access to thousands of customers who will buy hundreds or thousands of the right devices in one purchase, *and* have their own IT departments for first-line support. Different audience, different business model, huge opportunity. Rubinstein clearly understands that, and Engadget reaches not only consumers but enterprise users as well. For those latter viewers, his message was loud, clear and appreciated. {Jonathan}
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
    Writer, PreCentral
    Past Palm Real Reviewer
    @webOSquire on Twitter
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    Apple and Google can and will fight over the consumer space, and HP will be competitive there, but that's not the sweet spot. No one truly owns the enterprise market when it comes to modern smartphones and tablets, and HP is very clearly (and rightly) putting its primary focus there. Apple may sell one device at a time to millions of people, but HP has unique access to thousands of customers who will buy hundreds or thousands of the right devices in one purchase, *and* have their own IT departments for first-line support. Different audience, different business model, huge opportunity. Rubinstein clearly understands that, and Engadget reaches not only consumers but enterprise users as well. For those latter viewers, his message was loud, clear and appreciated. {Jonathan}
    I dunno...there are a lot of BES servers out there. I guess it's debatable how modern the BlackBerry platform is, though.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan I Ezor View Post
    I've been thinking more about why my impression of Jon Rubinstein's appearance was so much more positive than how others here saw it, and it comes down to this: I'm part of the enterprise. I don't buy like a consumer, I don't use like a consumer, and I don't particularly respond to consumer-driven marketing campaigns. Tell me that a device is solid, reliable, responsive, flexible to how I work and allows me to be more productive than I otherwise can be, and I'm sold. That's why I so loved the original Pilot 1000 over the Newton, why Synergy excited me more than a lack of Shazam bothered me, why webOS customization was so appealing, why I have no desire for an iPad even after having had one (while configuring it for my mother) for more than a month, and why I am *very* eager for both the Pre 3 and the TouchPad. I need a workhorse, thanks; I want it to do *work*. (If it's entertaining too, great, but that's not why I buy technology.)

    Apple and Google can and will fight over the consumer space, and HP will be competitive there, but that's not the sweet spot. No one truly owns the enterprise market when it comes to modern smartphones and tablets, and HP is very clearly (and rightly) putting its primary focus there. Apple may sell one device at a time to millions of people, but HP has unique access to thousands of customers who will buy hundreds or thousands of the right devices in one purchase, *and* have their own IT departments for first-line support. Different audience, different business model, huge opportunity. Rubinstein clearly understands that, and Engadget reaches not only consumers but enterprise users as well. For those latter viewers, his message was loud, clear and appreciated. {Jonathan}
    Sorry for my ignorance in this regard but can you explain to me exactly what makes someone an "Enterprise" customer and how they are different from a "Consumer" customer?

    I just don't understand why only an Enterprise customer would be attracted to a device that is "solid, reliable, responsive, flexible to how I work and allows me to be more productive than I otherwise can be, and I'm sold."

    Why wouldn't everyone want that?
    If anything, you just described the iPhone and that device is certainly marketed towards consumers and not enterprise customers, no??

    What about his interview showed you that the 3 new devices are "solid, reliable, and flexible?"
    To me these are extremely vague terms and it doesn't define what an "Enterprise" user is at all.
    If you asked him why the Pre3 is solid, what would he have told you?
    He certainly wouldn't reference any of the hardware upgrades they made to the phone because he doesn't really seem to know them.

    For those latter viewers, his message was loud, clear and appreciated. {Jonathan}
    What was that message exactly?
    Because I was trying so hard to figure out his purpose for doing the interview...
    Last edited by Chromeo; 03/29/2011 at 05:57 PM.
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I dunno...there are a lot of BES servers out there. I guess it's debatable how modern the BlackBerry platform is, though.
    There are so many limitations and complexities dealing with BES. Simple things like adding a company calendar are impossible with BES. I am using Sprint's plans of shutting down iDEN service as an excuse to get my client off of BES and BB's due to the pain of that setup. Maybe Palm will have a phone coming out for the revamp of Direct Connect when it comes out at the end of this year.
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