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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Wrong war.
    Same army.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Same army.
    Armed with knives for a gun fight. I say it's the wrong army as well.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Microsoft has said that they are spending $800 million on advertising the WM7 phones. So far, it seems to be having no impact.

    I think that the issue is that the salespeople in the stores talk about the phones that they know, that is, the phones that they own. There is no more powerful answer a salesperson can give than, "Oh, here, let me show you how I do that on my phone."

    So HP, consider putting a Pre 3 into each of their hands.

    There are about 75,000 full-time smartphone sales people in the US. That is a drop in the bucket of what you are going to have to spend.

    Better yet, don't give the phones away. Let the salespeople earn them by getting five $100 pre-order deposits for Pre 3's. When their fifth customer completes their sale, they get their phone but they have to activate it. Let's say the internal cost of a Pre 3 or Veer is $200 so if a third of them do it, it will cost you $5 million.

    That would be:
    A lot of Pre 3's sold on launch day.
    An army of salespeople taking notice of the Pre 3.
    An army of Pre 3 owners showing off their phones.

    You can still run your ads but for about the cost of a Super Bowl ad, you would instantly have a huge momentum.

    While you are at it, maybe give existing Pre or Pixi owners some nice rebate when they pre-order the Pre 3. It would turn old customers into excited new Pre 3 owners. Imagine your first day sales if a million took you up on these pre-orders.
    And why don't you work for HP?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Armed with knives for a gun fight. I say it's the wrong army as well.
    I don't think you understand big companies well. When the upper management of a huge enterprise, such as HP, decides that the company's core focus will be on a certain item and they gear up to push it, you will usually see a push like no other. The flip side, of course, is when a company has a set of products that are simply treated as a general revenue stream. When that happens, they don't get the big push, and success/failure is determined by a number of other factors.

    The two just aren't the same. HP never really pushed their iPaq class phones. But they push printers and PC's. If they push webOS phones and tablets like they do their printers and PC's...they will be successful. How much so is up in the air, but it will far exceed what Palm was able to briefly do (the roughly 2.5-3 million webOS users at peak). Quite frankly, if HP puts the right corporate feature sets into these devices, I can see them easily hitting over 10 million by the end of the year. HP is going to drive their business end like RIM did, and then they'll drive their consumer end like they do their printers and PC's. Hopefully, this will all turn into a big snowball and we end up riding a new wave of webOS users and applications.

    And to the original idea of this thread, I think having a target to earn a TouchPad (say 30 Pre 3's or Veers in a month) would really be a great incentive. Whatever they think of the phones, I'm sure you would be hard pressed to find a rep that wouldn't want a TouchPad if they could get one for free.
  5. #45  
    Given this is the company whose marketing geniuses that on the before the Pre2 became available on the first U.S. carrier they announced its successor with "availability this summer" there is no way they are going to be successful with webOS.

    They effectively shot Pre2 sales at VZW right in the foot. This is what is called "freezing the market" however, HP is so stupid that they froze the market on their own device.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    I don't think you understand big companies well. When the upper management of a huge enterprise, such as HP, decides that the company's core focus will be on a certain item and they gear up to push it, you will usually see a push like no other. The flip side, of course, is when a company has a set of products that are simply treated as a general revenue stream. When that happens, they don't get the big push, and success/failure is determined by a number of other factors.

    The two just aren't the same. HP never really pushed their iPaq class phones. But they push printers and PC's. If they push webOS phones and tablets like they do their printers and PC's...they will be successful. How much so is up in the air, but it will far exceed what Palm was able to briefly do (the roughly 2.5-3 million webOS users at peak). Quite frankly, if HP puts the right corporate feature sets into these devices, I can see them easily hitting over 10 million by the end of the year. HP is going to drive their business end like RIM did, and then they'll drive their consumer end like they do their printers and PC's. Hopefully, this will all turn into a big snowball and we end up riding a new wave of webOS users and applications.

    And to the original idea of this thread, I think having a target to earn a TouchPad (say 30 Pre 3's or Veers in a month) would really be a great incentive. Whatever they think of the phones, I'm sure you would be hard pressed to find a rep that wouldn't want a TouchPad if they could get one for free.
    Again, all of this comes to a screeching halt when it comes to the carriers.

    It's exceedingly difficult to "hit" 10 million phones or tablets in the US without serious carrier support. It's exceedingly difficult to hit 1 million, really, without serious carrier support. As of now, HP has almost none. Even well after they've announced the next generation of products, it's complete silence on this front. Two carriers (Sprint, Verizon) have already said their priorities are for this year - Android and Android/iPhone, respectively. Everything else is an afterthought. AT&T is split between iPhone, Blackberry, Android, and Windows Phone already. T-Mobile isn't even part of the discussion.

    That's why mentioning their prowess in servers, printers, and laptops is besides the point. If these big four carriers aren't onboard, all of the enterprise "leverage" and PC "bundling" and whatever else is irrelevant.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Armed with knives for a gun fight. I say it's the wrong army as well.
    Ok, that's rich. I think you thin.k a bit too highly of Apple, but that's really not wht the threadls about.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  8. #48  
    You can also have it so that the top 3 sellers get a free Touchpad, or something like that.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    Given this is the company whose marketing geniuses that on the before the Pre2 became available on the first U.S. carrier they announced its successor with "availability this summer" there is no way they are going to be successful with webOS.

    They effectively shot Pre2 sales at VZW right in the foot. This is what is called "freezing the market" however, HP is so stupid that they froze the market on their own device.
    No. We had word last year that Verizon would only be selling the phone primarily through on-line sales. It was clear from the beginning that the Pre 2 wasn't going to be a major carry for Verizon, and that HP was basically treating the phone as an afterthought.

    You also seem to think only in terms of retail sales. HP could easily move several million phones and tablets through it's corporate sales and you'd barely notice until a bunch of business travelers had them pinned to their ears.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Again, all of this comes to a screeching halt when it comes to the carriers.

    It's exceedingly difficult to "hit" 10 million phones or tablets in the US without serious carrier support. It's exceedingly difficult to hit 1 million, really, without serious carrier support. As of now, HP has almost none. Even well after they've announced the next generation of products, it's complete silence on this front. Two carriers (Sprint, Verizon) have already said their priorities are for this year - Android and Android/iPhone, respectively. Everything else is an afterthought. AT&T is split between iPhone, Blackberry, Android, and Windows Phone already. T-Mobile isn't even part of the discussion.

    That's why mentioning their prowess in servers, printers, and laptops is besides the point. If these big four carriers aren't onboard, all of the enterprise "leverage" and PC "bundling" and whatever else is irrelevant.
    The problem with your entire post is this: you have no idea if they have carrier support lined up or not. When they announced the phones it could have been the same as when Palm announced the original Pre. They were giving Sprint an exclusive but they didn't announce the carrier for months. Perhaps HP already has carriers ready, but isn't ready to announce them. Perhaps they are still hammering away at contractual details. The point is you don't know, and you are making an assumption. I choose to assume that the carriers, given the right incentives, will more than happily carry the phones.

    Of course, the other thing you are missing is that they could be going worldwide. Since the Pre 3 is a world phone, it would be quite easy to sell it in virtually any country that they want.
  11. cgk
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    #51  
    Of course, the other thing you are missing is that they could be going worldwide. Since the Pre 3 is a world phone, it would be quite easy to sell it in virtually any country that they want.
    "quite easy"? They will have the same problems as in the US, take the UK - the Pre and Pre Plus were flops for O2 after they spent significant amounts of money on it. For it to be 'quite easy', you need to convince people to take a third punt on a phone they rejected twice before.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    No. We had word last year that Verizon would only be selling the phone primarily through on-line sales. It was clear from the beginning that the Pre 2 wasn't going to be a major carry for Verizon, and that HP was basically treating the phone as an afterthought.

    You also seem to think only in terms of retail sales. HP could easily move several million phones and tablets through it's corporate sales and you'd barely notice until a bunch of business travelers had them pinned to their ears.
    On what carriers would these millions of phones be activated on? Would they have AT&T apps? VZ Navigator? Sprint TV?

    HP's corporate sales had existing WebOS product on all three carriers starting last fall. In fact, they still do....nine months later. The result is hardly as you described.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
    The problem with your entire post is this: you have no idea if they have carrier support lined up or not.
    Not true. Again, Verizon and Sprint execs have both gone on record as to what their priorities are for 2011. WebOS wasn't mentioned either time. And Verizon's "support" is quite evident with the current flagship WebOS device...the very same one I believe Palm entreated its users to publicly beg Sprint to carry to no avail.

    When they announced the phones it could have been the same as when Palm announced the original Pre. They were giving Sprint an exclusive but they didn't announce the carrier for months.
    I think you may be a little confused there. Sprint was fully present and mentioned on the day one unveiling of the Pre at CES 2009. Nobody was "present" to associate themselves with the Veer and Pre 3. Still aren't almost 30 days later.

    To put it in perspective, almost no major handsets are announced for America without a carrier. Sony Ericsson was able to announce Verizon as the carrier for the Xperia Play the same day they announced it. We know who is carrying virtually every Motorola and HTC device announced thus far for this year. T-Mobile has already announced they're getting the Samsung Galaxy S 2, and all other US carriers are expected to follow. Heck, even Kyocera got Sprint to do a presentation for their much-maligned Echo.

    Perhaps HP already has carriers ready, but isn't ready to announce them. Perhaps they are still hammering away at contractual details. The point is you don't know, and you are making an assumption. I choose to assume that the carriers, given the right incentives, will more than happily carry the phones.
    I'm not assuming. I'm observing. You are not assuming either. You are hoping. That's the difference. I'm not saying carriers will not carry these devices, but I am observing that there is no support for them now, and little to no indication of support in the future. Without very real and substantial support, any sort of giveaway or "incentive program" to reps and/or customers is doomed to fail.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Ok, that's rich. I think you thin.k a bit too highly of Apple, but that's really not wht the threadls about.
    Would it resonate more if I said HP is bringing printers to a smartphone fight, or cheap PCs to a premium tablet fight? Success on one front does not equal success on another. The HP armies are not, and never have been equipped for this kind of war.

    I was responding to a comment that HP had armies of enterprise sales people to make this happen. It would be one thing if we didn't know how that army produced on this front. We do. They suck! There are plenty of examples, past and recent, that show us exactly what HP is capable of when they put their might behind smartphones and tablets.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Armed with knives for a gun fight. I say it's the wrong army as well.
    Have you seen "The Punisher"? It all depends what kind of knife you bring!

    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    On what carriers would these millions of phones be activated on? Would they have AT&T apps? VZ Navigator? Sprint TV?

    HP's corporate sales had existing WebOS product on all three carriers starting last fall. In fact, they still do....nine months later. The result is hardly as you described.
    Seriously, I am really getting tired of debating your posts. You twist words and make "facts" up. At it's peak, as I SAID, webOS hit somewhere between 2.5 and 3 million users total. As I have mentioned in the past, Verizon's own data showed that, for about 4 months, the Pre+ was their second best selling smartphone behind the Droid. It had about half the sales. Of course, it took tremendous discounts to get those sales, but they moved them none the less.

    Further, you keep babbling on about the stated priorities of the carriers: 1) it's only their stated priorities, and does not exclude other phones. Even the Verizon guy thought webOS was interesting and might be able to do something. 2) You seem to think "priorities" are written in stone. They are not. See webOS 1.45 users and the 2.0 update fiasco. Businesses make decisions based on what is in front of them.

    Let me spell it out for you: YOU (yes, you), have NO clue what the carriers are, or are not, doing with respect to webOS. Nobody but the carriers and HP know this. YOU do not. Stop acting like you do. I have simply made the supposition that they may be wheeling and dealing to get the carriers to carry and push the phones. Money talks, and HP might be able to persuade them, especially considering how solid the upcoming stuff looks.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    "quite easy"? They will have the same problems as in the US, take the UK - the Pre and Pre Plus were flops for O2 after they spent significant amounts of money on it. For it to be 'quite easy', you need to convince people to take a third punt on a phone they rejected twice before.
    They were apparently popular in Germany, and there were apparently other areas that they may have done well in had they been available. Of course, the biggest problem with your retort is that this is based on the old phones under the Palm name. Most people still don't know what a Pre or Pixi are. So why there is certainly a number of folks that wouldn't want one based on prior experience with the hardware, there are far more that have never even heard of these phones, but may be interested in them. I suspect a true world wide launch, especially if accompanied by a good deal of top notch apps, will actually move a good bit of hardware. Quite frankly, I think HP, if it pushes deals hard enough, and makes the right stuff available for the corporate level, could probably do 10 million in Enterprise alone. Again, under the right circumstances.

    For me I wholly object to the "webOS can't succeed because it hasn't yet" philosophy. Android should be proof enough that a concept can work it's way up slowly, then take off if it hits critical mass.

    We'll see soon enough how hard HP pushes and if they tighten up the edges on webOS. If they do, I think success is more likely than you do.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Would it resonate more if I said HP is bringing printers to a smartphone fight, or cheap PCs to a premium tablet fight? Success on one front does not equal success on another. The HP armies are not, and never have been equipped for this kind of war.
    Actually, it would "resonate" better if you were a bit more consistent on analogies.

    No one spoke of what this "army" was selling, only that the sales army exists.

    If you think a corporate salesperson who sells printers (oh yea, and by the way, laptops, workstations, and servers as well) can only sell those items, you don't understand corporate sales.


    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I was responding to a comment that HP had armies of enterprise sales people to make this happen. It would be one thing if we didn't know how that army produced on this front. We do. They suck! There are plenty of examples, past and recent, that show us exactly what HP is capable of when they put their might behind smartphones and tablets.
    Cite me an example where corporate salespeople pushed smartphones and tablets. I'm one of their customers. Have been for years. They've never even sent me a brochure on tablets or phones.

    They've not started their battle, but since you cheer for the "other side", I can understand your desperate enthusiasm to declare a loss before it's even started.
  19. samab's Avatar
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    #59  
    Considering that RIM only paid $200 million for QNX vs. HP paid $1.2 billion for Palm --- HP is a billion dollars in the hole already.
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