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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    So the question is: "COULD a $5m campaign be better" and the answer is "yes, if it works..."

    I wonder what it would cost Palm to send a Pre2 to every remaining Pre user? At $200/phone... that's a lot of hardware, and cheap good will. Then every tier2 and tier3 rep at the major carriers. And then phones + SPIFS for sales people, etc.

    If they came up with a couple of gimicks like that, they could have a huge and rapid bump in adoption. And then a bunch of effective advertising during March Madness...

    And then whatever $ is left over on bribing whoever is needed to actually have these phones shipping and available.
    Aside from the dodgy math (Try more like $600/phone), the problem here is carrier agreements.

    If they were to do this to Verizon-eligible customers, Verizon would dump the Pre 2 from their sales channels because HP is now undercutting them by $150 and kneecapping their sales. If they were to do this on AT&T, they would have to run it through AT&T support first and load it up with the crapware...and then...they might as well sell an agreement to carry it cheaply, no? In fact, I believe AT&T would demand it. Same for Sprint.

    And again...before we can even talk about bribing reps...you have to get the phone sanctioned by the carrier. They have just one carrier agreement in the US now, and it's a pretty pathetic one that all but eschews store sales.

    So...this is largely academic until they get a LOT of products on real carrier agreements and widely available. There is no indication when or even if this will ever happen again, and we have yet to hear a carrier speak up after Feb. 9.

    I mean, HP has already tried giving WebOS devices away and even paying customers to take them. Wasn't exactly a boom for adoption.

    You need compelling products that are worth selling. When HP gets some, carriers will jump onboard. Without that....it's not going far.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    good idea and why i think they will be successful in the enterprise. they have an army of sales reps for enterprise that have made HP into 'The largest and most relied-on enterprise company in the world'. HP gearing up for Enterprise webOS sales | PreCentral.net | The #1 Palm Pre and Pixi Community
    Is this the same army that has been selling smartphones for HP for the past decade, the same army that sold all those enterprise specific Slates? If it is the same army, I hope they hired mercenaries this time around.
  3. #23  
    you could spend billions and it wouldn't matter.

    obviously they need to get reach and the name out, but how much they spend is irrelevant. What it comes down to is how effective it is and the message.
  4. dex4's Avatar
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    #24  
    As a previous radioshack manager, they would have contests like these a lot. Some were for merchandise sales, but most were for cell phone sales as the cell phone reps would give them away at least once a quarter.

    Still not as many phones as you were mentioning, but it does happen.

    I don't see giving people a phone and telling them they would have to sell so much to keep it, a good idea. They might start forcing it on to consumers, which no one likes to be in that situation were the sales person only wants you to buy a particular item and nothing else. It might then look bad on the store/company.

    A better one would be, whomever sells an hp phone gets to be entered into the stores giveaway which would be a pre3 and/or veer. I would also add that the top seller of the store/district would receive a touchpad. More sales people would be wanting to sell them, like the part-time employees who don't have the volume of sales like the full-time people.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Is this the same army that has been selling smartphones for HP for the past decade, the same army that sold all those enterprise specific Slates? If it is the same army, I hope they hired mercenaries this time around.
    "Help Wanted: HP Blackwater Commandos Needed"?

    In all seriousness, I hear people cite the enterprise angle again and again, and I guess that's a possibility. But if you're a consumer, you should hope and pray that's a last-ditch fallback. The Slate went from Ballmer-keynoting, media-and-reading-consumption wunderkind to limited edition "Enterprise" Windows product in less than a year.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Aside from the dodgy math (Try more like $600/phone), the problem here is carrier agreements.
    Assuming that the cost to create a plastic pebble / oreo cookie isn't much different than the iPhone, the $200 should work. The iPhone4 is estimated to cost less than $200 for the hardware. Some assembly required.

    AppleInsider | Apple's CDMA iPhone 4 components cost $171, $16 cheaper than GSM phone
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 02/28/2011 at 02:32 PM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Is this the same army that has been selling smartphones for HP for the past decade, the same army that sold all those enterprise specific Slates? If it is the same army, I hope they hired mercenaries this time around.
    You mean the Slate that they were obligated to produce because of some binding agreement, that has since been met and will never be seen or mentioned again?

    OR do you mean that other army that had the troops fall back from selling WP7 devices because they were just a launch partner and not obligated to do anything for M$ at that point?

    Or perhaps the army that had HP cease and desist from any further manufacturing and development of the Zeen tablet on the uber Touchsmart printer?

  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Aside from the dodgy math (Try more like $600/phone), the problem here is carrier agreement

    If they were to do this to Verizon-eligible customers, Verizon would dump the Pre 2 from their sales channels because HP is now undercutting them by $150 and kneecapping their sales. If they were to do this on AT&T, they would have to run it through AT&T support first and load it up with the crapware...and then...they might as well sell an agreement to carry it cheaply, no? In fact, I believe AT&T would demand it. Same for Sprint.

    And again...before we can even talk about bribing reps...you have to get the phone sanctioned by the carrier. They have just one carrier agreement in the US now, and it's a pretty pathetic one that all but eschews store sales.

    So...this is largely academic until they get a LOT of products on real carrier agreements and widely available. There is no indication when or even if this will ever happen again, and we have yet to hear a carrier speak up after Feb. 9.

    I mean, HP has already tried giving WebOS devices away and even paying customers to take them. Wasn't exactly a boom for adoption.

    You need compelling products that are worth selling. When HP gets some, carriers will jump onboard. Without that....it's not going far.
    Try not to take my post that literally. The concept was "could they give away more good will by spending $200 for the parts to build a better phone for existing customers than spent to win new ones?"

    In terms of Verizon, VZW reps are pretending they aren't selling the Pre2 because they lost a ton of money on the Pre+. If Palm could get a bunch into the field that didn't all generate returns and support issues to VZW, that might change the amount of fear the carriers have. And the carriers don't make money on the phone, so they would be ahead to have a happy customer that renews, or at least isn't likely to return their phone and/or move to another carrier. VZW would SAVE money if they replaced the current Pre+ devices that are still under warranty...

    And the "bribes" comment was clearly tongue-in-cheek, intended to get the phones launched on the carriers... I'm sure if HP sent Sprint a few million dollars, they would be more inclined to launch them... especially after the last Sprint quarterly earnings.

    Of course they aren't going to do this stuff. The point was to show the relative cost of simple things like strategically seeding the market with hardware, rather then waisting in on creepy girls and commercials targeting busy moms.

    And yes, this is all just academic. That's a given for any thread that isn't just "how do I...?"

    See also: hyperbole
  9. #29  
    Why buy a Pre3?

    1. Touchstone
    2. Swiping away cards
    3. Tap-to-share
    4. Flexibility (e.g. USB, removable battery)
    5. Keyboard


    You need people to believe these differences are meaningful in their lives, either because they offer a better experience or because it makes them cool.

    The iPhone doesn't suck. Neither do many Android phones. You can't rely on the fact that WebOs works well, it needs to be BETTER. Smartphones have become consumer items. As such, being cool, is more important once you have base functionality.

    The coolest things I see about the Pre3 (relative to the competition) are the first three I mention. Finding store displays, ads, product placements that highlight these things would seem the best "consumer" strategy which might be different than their enterprise strategy.

    I've seen Pre's on TV, but never seen anyone grab up their Pre from a touchstone or set it down and use an exhibition app. What about mirroring the iPad ad where the guy goes throughout his daily life using his iPad and velcro to use his iPad in myriad ways. That was a bit over the top, but it made its point.
    __________________________________
    Palm Pilot, Palm III, Palm V, Palm Vx, Kyocera 7135, Treo 650, Treo 680, Treo 700p, Centro, Palm Pre (minus) . . . ???
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Assuming that the cost to create a plastic pebble / oreo cookie isn't much different than the iPhone, the $200 should work. The iPhone4 is estimated to cost less than $200 for the hardware. Some assembly required.

    AppleInsider | Apple's CDMA iPhone 4 components cost $171, $16 cheaper than GSM phone
    HP's losing a possible $500-$600 sale to a carrier or customer due to giving this away, so that's what the material impact is....not the component cost sum.
  11. #31  
    [QUOTE=milominderbinder;2889904]Microsoft has said that they are spending $800 million on advertising the WM7 phones. So far, it seems to be having no impact.

    I think that the issue is that the salespeople in the stores talk about the phones that they know, that is, the phones that they own. There is no more powerful answer a salesperson can give than, "Oh, here, let me show you how I do that on my phone."

    So HP, consider putting a Pre 3 into each of their hands.

    There are about 75,000 full-time smartphone sales people in the US. That is a drop in the bucket of what you are going to have to spend.

    Better yet, don't give the phones away. Let the salespeople earn them by getting five $100 pre-order deposits for Pre 3's. When their fifth customer completes their sale, they get their phone but they have to activate it. Let's say the internal cost of a Pre 3 or Veer is $200 so if a third of them do it, it will cost you $5 million.

    That would be:
    Palm m105 >> Zire 72SE >> AT&T Pre Plus >> Pre 2 (cracked)>>HP Veer/Pre 2>>Touchpad>>Pre 3...and I'm only 17 years old! (My own savings)
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Try not to take my post that literally. The concept was "could they give away more good will by spending $200 for the parts to build a better phone for existing customers than spent to win new ones?"

    In terms of Verizon, VZW reps are pretending they aren't selling the Pre2 because they lost a ton of money on the Pre+. If Palm could get a bunch into the field that didn't all generate returns and support issues to VZW, that might change the amount of fear the carriers have. And the carriers don't make money on the phone, so they would be ahead to have a happy customer that renews, or at least isn't likely to return their phone and/or move to another carrier. VZW would SAVE money if they replaced the current Pre+ devices that are still under warranty...

    And the "bribes" comment was clearly tongue-in-cheek, intended to get the phones launched on the carriers... I'm sure if HP sent Sprint a few million dollars, they would be more inclined to launch them... especially after the last Sprint quarterly earnings.

    Of course they aren't going to do this stuff. The point was to show the relative cost of simple things like strategically seeding the market with hardware, rather then waisting in on creepy girls and commercials targeting busy moms.

    And yes, this is all just academic. That's a given for any thread that isn't just "how do I...?"

    See also: hyperbole
    I see your larger point, but mine still stands. The carrier agreements (or lack thereof at present) are a major obstacle to this being implemented. Verizon not really having much stock in stores for a rep to sell even if they were in HP's pocket is another.

    They need to prove they can release product that sells, and then the rest will take care of itself. Dumping a bunch of free last-gen devices into the wild creates more problems than it solves, IMHO.
  13. #33  
    You are correct. I believe that carrier resistance is the issue. I believe carrier resistance is at least partly the reason why 2.x isn't going to be released to legacy users...

    The carriers are HP/Palm's customer, not us. That's actually what I think is a pivotal difference between Apple and everyone else (but there is another thread for that.)
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    HP's losing a possible $500-$600 sale to a carrier or customer due to giving this away, so that's what the material impact is....not the component cost sum.
    That would only be true if they are giving them to people that would otherwise buy them... And that's a pretty short list.
  15. cgk
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    #35  
    It's a shame that you don't have a single standard in the US, they could simply mail out 75,000 to random people.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    That would only be true if they are giving them to people that would otherwise buy them... And that's a pretty short list.
    True, and if giving a Pre2 to a salesperson results in that salesperson selling 5 Pre2s, or a combination of Pre2s, Veers (what is the plural of Veer anyway?) and Pre3s, then you come out ahead on the cost of 'advertising' and increase the user base which in turn increases the likelihood of greater development of new hardware and apps.
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Is this the same army that has been selling smartphones for HP for the past decade, the same army that sold all those enterprise specific Slates? If it is the same army, I hope they hired mercenaries this time around.
    You left out - the same army that sells HP computers successfully. Same army that drove Apple out of the printer business with the sales of HP printers.

    BTW, I work at a customer site for those armies. They didn't push the phones or the slate. I suspect there wasn't much of a push for either internally.
  18. giggles's Avatar
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    #38  
    omggggg lets get this to HP quick!
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You left out - the same army that sells HP computers successfully. Same army that drove Apple out of the printer business with the sales of HP printers.
    Wrong war.
  20. #40  
    This is a really good idea and I will +1 to it. I just hope that some high HP and Palm people are reading it like Ruby....
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
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