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  1. rkguy's Avatar
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       #1  
    As per the title:
    RIM, Bank of America partnering up for Mobile Wallet NFC trial -- Engadget

    i simply don't understand why HP would not want to join in on the NFC. Maybe their covers can be swapped out to also have an NFC chip? Let's suppose Samsung, HTC, and RIM go NFC, seems like an ok maybe will be successful. Let's say apple does too (there have been reports as such), then HP will look silly b/c it'll be the hot thing
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  2. #2  
    touchpad2/pre5 (4 will include gyro, then 5 will include nfc.. They can't include both in one upgrade, that would be just be silly)/slab2/veer3/pixi4.
  3. #3  
    With the subpar security on NFC in general, I'm glad that it won't be on the Pre.

    I'm not really one of those tin-foil hat conspiracy theorists, but it's crazy how little they're thinking about security with RFID and NFC, relying on the low power of the transmission to keep us 'secure'.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    With the subpar security on NFC in general, I'm glad that it won't be on the Pre.

    I'm not really one of those tin-foil hat conspiracy theorists, but it's crazy how little they're thinking about security with RFID and NFC, relying on the low power of the transmission to keep us 'secure'.
    There's more to it to than just relying on low power transmission; there are tokens, secure channels, etc. in place for certain transactions. The likeliness of someone stealing your credit card number is greater than intercepting an NFC transmission.

    Anyone can steal a credit card or check, very few have the technology or intelligence to attack an NFC transaction.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    The likeliness of someone stealing your credit card number is greater than intercepting an NFC transmission.

    Anyone can steal a credit card or check, very few have the technology or intelligence to attack an NFC transaction.
    Two entirely different beasts. If you're using NFC instead of a credit card, you're physically at the location, which means you're handing someone a physical credit card rather than just the number.

    If your credit card gets physically stolen, you know. If your NFC transmission is stolen or cloned, you have no idea.

    And yes, you need equipment to intercept NFC, but it's been repeatedly demonstrated that it's not very difficult to do so. It unfortunately wasn't designed from the ground up with security in mind but that was tacked on after the fact.
  6. #6  
    i can care less about NFC.
  7. #7  
    I have been to conferences where they have demonstrated being able to extract rfid info from a target from over 40' away! The researcher seemed pretty confident that given a big enough antenna, he would be able to get it at ranges over a mile! NFC is based on rfid technology. I'm not a tin foil hat guy either, but seeing a real life rfid attack was enough for me to buy rfid blocking sleeves for my credit cards and passport!

    HP is smart to hold back on implementing NFC. Let the other guys hammer out the kinks. HP should focus on getting their products to market!
  8. #8  
    Doesn't the phone confirm your payment at starbucks for this amount or this that amount to the hacker on the park bench next to you?

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  9. cgk
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    #9  
    Yes, you would get a notification - the other thing is that contantless payment is limited to about $20 (it differs from region to region) and you then need to enter the PIM. I'd stick to social engineering and cloning credit cards if I wanted to make money from fraud. Anyway in regards to phones, payment is only part of the picture and NFC will be used heavily for peerless information between mobile devices and apps. (Yes yes I know I know here amongst the amish that any development that is not provided by webOS is something that nobody wants or can see a point in).

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  10. ieko's Avatar
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    #10  
    They're not using NFC yet because they're still at least 1 cycle behind on hardware.

    I suspect within 2 generations of HP hardware we will see NFC.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Two entirely different beasts. If you're using NFC instead of a credit card, you're physically at the location, which means you're handing someone a physical credit card rather than just the number.

    If your credit card gets physically stolen, you know. If your NFC transmission is stolen or cloned, you have no idea.

    And yes, you need equipment to intercept NFC, but it's been repeatedly demonstrated that it's not very difficult to do so. It unfortunately wasn't designed from the ground up with security in mind but that was tacked on after the fact.
    I suggest you read this: http://cl.ly/4t87 - Credit card companies aren't going to hop onboard some new system because it's hip, despite security. You realize how many lawsuits they would have on their hands?
    Last edited by barkerja; 02/27/2011 at 01:35 PM.
  12. rkguy's Avatar
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       #12  
    no go barkerja . i wonder if this is a result in disruption of the lybian domain??
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    no go barkerja . i wonder if this is a result in disruption of the lybian domain??
    Sorry about that, link fixed. I accidentally clipped the URL a character short.
  14. cgk
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    #14  
    I don't really get the conversation we are having - NFC is already embedded in millions of devices and used millions of times a day for payment - if they are concerned about lawsuits, it certainly hasn't slowed the adoption of NFC by banks around the world, the largest supermarket chain in the UK will have contactless payment enabled in all it's supermarkets by the middle of the year. NFC isn't coming, it's already here and has been for a couple of years, embedding in a phone is simply a new usage scenario rather than a testing ground.
    Last edited by CGK; 02/27/2011 at 01:51 PM.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I don't really get the conversation we are having - NFC is already embedded in millions of devices and used millions of times a day for payment - if they are concerned about lawsuits, it certainly hasn't slowed the adoption of NFC by banks around the world, the largest supermarket chain in the UK will have contactless payment enabled in all it's supermarkets by the middle of the year. NFC isn't coming, it's already here and has been for a couple of years, embedding in a phone is simply a new usage scenario rather than a testing ground.
    Good point. And like you already said above, its implications go well beyond mobile payment. Concerts, amusement parks, movie theaters, etc.
  16. cgk
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Good point. And like you already said above, its implications go well beyond mobile payment. Concerts, amusement parks, movie theaters, etc.
    Well let's take the supermarket example - it has a loyalty card scheme which is moving over to an NFC - my understanding is that you'll simply swipe your phone to collect your points.

    In all the trials I've seen, people who try phone-based systems don't want to go back. It's one of those things that people are unsure about until they actually do it. Then it clicks and they wonder why they weren't doing it before.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Well let's take the supermarket example - it has a loyalty card scheme which is moving over to an NFC - my understanding is that you'll simply swipe your phone to collect your points.

    In all the trials I've seen, people who try phone-based systems don't want to go back. It's one of those things that people are unsure about until they actually do it. Then it clicks and they wonder why they weren't doing it before.
    It's convenient. If this helps consolidate and make life easier and simpler, why would you want to go back? I have the Starbucks mobile app on my iPhone that I now use to pay for my drinks and food, it's so great to just whip out my phone and have them scan it. It shows my balance immediately after the purchase and any earned points.
  18. #18  
    they have been doing this for vending machines and other stuff in china for some time now !
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  19. #19  
    It makes more sense to wait for a clear standard to emerge, and then jump on that. As of now you have so many different parties trying to own the payment process and no clear victor. OS vendors, Hardware manufacturers, Banks, credit card companies, cell phone carriers, etc are all trying to get a piece.

    Here's what will probably happen:

    Currently: chaos
    Mid-2011: Apple introduces iPay NFC through iPhone, gets critical mass. Either Apple makes it an open standard anyone can join (doubt it) or it creates consumer awareness which in turn serves as impetus for a non-Apple competitor to emerge.
    Late-2011/early 2012: A Not-Apple consortium gains some traction (probably led by Google or MS/Nokia), creates an open standard. HPalm is a member of this consortium. It gets traction, Android gets some bleeding edge ones first. Various privacy/security crises crop up and the Android Army takes the brunt of it.
    Mid-2012: the dust settles, the kinks in the tech are worked out, and then HP starts rolling it out in Pre 4, Veer 2, etc... it "just works" and consumers are happy.
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kneeland View Post
    It makes more sense to wait for a clear standard to emerge, and then jump on that. As of now you have so many different parties trying to own the payment process and no clear victor. OS vendors, Hardware manufacturers, Banks, credit card companies, cell phone carriers, etc are all trying to get a piece.

    Here's what will probably happen:

    Currently: chaos
    Mid-2011: Apple introduces iPay NFC through iPhone, gets critical mass. Either Apple makes it an open standard anyone can join (doubt it) or it creates consumer awareness which in turn serves as impetus for a non-Apple competitor to emerge.
    Late-2011/early 2012: A Not-Apple consortium gains some traction (probably led by Google or MS/Nokia), creates an open standard. HPalm is a member of this consortium. It gets traction, Android gets some bleeding edge ones first. Various privacy/security crises crop up and the Android Army takes the brunt of it.
    Mid-2012: the dust settles, the kinks in the tech are worked out, and then HP starts rolling it out in Pre 4, Veer 2, etc... it "just works" and consumers are happy.
    NFC isn't attached to any one entity. It is a specification in its own right. Kind of like 802.11.
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