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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Very well written post. I think it's a sad commentary on the current state of things around here that the first two responses say nothing about what was said in the post itself, but just generally dismisses HPs release of phones at all.

    Along those lines, it's noteworthy that not only is HP not ignoring the phones, but they're making them an big part of the overall functionality of the TouchPad. This is the type of added value you're talking about, over tech specs.
    couldnt have said that better. I as well think HP understands that with purchasing Webos they need to be just as big in the smartphone market as they intend on the tablet. Otherwise I feel we might have just seen a phone like the veer, and nothing more. It is a shame to watch people blow money every few months on essentially the same device, with only a spec bump here and there, that really dont show any benifit on that paticular OS smh. Though most will stand behind companies like Google if their in the loop and has one currently saying BUT WE ARE #1 and thats all that matters, but is it?
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    #22  
    this is the reason why I still have my pre minus even though I can upgrade to an evo or epic. Those phones seem lackluster due to the fact to what webos can do now and will do later. I mean Apple has their "we got an app for that" webos has it's "we have a patch for that", that alone shows you the dedication in the community and how far this os will progress. My overclocked and prepatched pre over any dual screen android thank you.
    "Don't think, feel." - Bruce Lee
  3. #23  
    HP has to get the carrier sales people to actually promote WebOS devices. Once Android devices made it into the Sprint stores, the local sales people (RI) never talked about the Pre again. Smartphone noobs that asked which phones do you recommend, they always said EVO or Epic. They also never mentioned Blackberry. The sales people don't ask what the customers needs are. They just show them their favorite phones.
  4. cgk
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    #24  
    W
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Very well written post. I think it's a sad commentary on the current state of things around here that the first two responses say nothing about what was said in the post itself, but just generally dismisses HPs release of phones at all.

    Along those lines, it's noteworthy that not only is HP not ignoring the phones, but they're making them an big part of the overall functionality of the TouchPad. This is the type of added value you're talking about, over tech specs.
    Added value? With a proprietary standard that will be completely outgunned by the time it is actually launched? You might as well brag about it having amtrac or hd-dvd. It actually decreases the ultility of the platform than improves it.


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  5. #25  
    The only reason Android or WP7 phones are in spec wars is because there is no other way for manufacturers to differentiate themselves.

    RIM has Blackberry OS and the name "Blackberry"
    HP has webOS and its user experience.
    Apple has iOS and the name "iPhone"

    Android and WP7 manufacturers can't claim a unique user experience on their devices because of an OS, and certainly not a form factor when there are so many other devices out there which look nearly identical. Those devices are available on all the carriers, so that's not a selling point, either. So I guess it has to come down to specs.

    Dual core phones don't add any real value to smartphones, but you need to have something to sell. Something to hype.
  6. #26  
    In the beginning, performance was an issue. Just look at the Pre's hardware. That might be the single most important influence that started the spec wars...

    As this industry grows, performance will not be an issue as much amongst the devices - factors that will be focused on will be more primary to the user experience:

    Battery life
    Usability in all environments, dark or light
    Integration with desktop PCs
    Internet and wifi speed access
    The abiity to run many applications simultaneously, and not lose state, or data, like on a Desktop PC.

    If any of the above are a part of the "spec wars" today, it will only be by coincidence in the future.... this is the start of making the whole mobile device really meet the needs that have been universally matured into, over time, by most common users.

    Remember, this market is still in its infancy.. there are likely 2 - 4 billion smartphones left to sell to new users over the next 5 years.. last year saw 250m.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  7. #27  
    I have consistently stated that hardware specs are not important. I stand by that. It doesn't matter if it is powered by a hamster and an exercise wheel. If the software is properly optimized, you will not know the difference between that and a quad-core beast, apart from the droppings.

    I don't think HP is consciously trying to avoid the spec trap, though. They definitely care about specs. They were happy to crow about the duel-core proc in the pad. I think the specs of the P3 come down more to timing. HP is not just starting on the P3. It wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't from the Palm era as well.

    Consider, all three of the phones that were announced, (this includes the P2), are just a variation of the original Pre. HP clearly didn't expend a lot of resources on a new design. There is no way to know how long the parts have been sourced for this device.

    The problem with the way specs are used is that they are rendered meaningless to the end user. What good is higher resolution on a phone? Apple spent 30 expensive seconds telling the world. Who cares how many milliamps the battery has? Apple makes that relevant. While others slapped cameras on the front of their phones, Apple created software that makes those cameras meaningful to the enduser.

    Duel-core will not make sense until someone explains to the consumer what that means for software development, and shows them an example of why it is important. That is how a meaningless spec is transformed into a meaningful user experience. I assure you, Apple will not include NFC until they have software that makes it clear why NFC is important. HP should be taking notes.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Consider, all three of the phones that were announced, (this includes the P2), are just a variation of the original Pre. HP clearly didn't expend a lot of resources on a new design. There is no way to know how long the parts have been sourced for this device.

    The problem with the way specs are used is that they are rendered meaningless to the end user. What good is higher resolution on a phone? Apple spent 30 expensive seconds telling the world. Who cares how many milliamps the battery has? Apple makes that relevant. While others slapped cameras on the front of their phones, Apple created software that makes those cameras meaningful to the enduser.

    Duel-core will not make sense until someone explains to the consumer what that means for software development, and shows them an example of why it is important. That is how a meaningless spec is transformed into a meaningful user experience. I assure you, Apple will not include NFC until they have software that makes it clear why NFC is important. HP should be taking notes.
    To the first bolded text: from what I understand, the Pre 3 and Veer are using Snapdragon processors and not OMAP 3. Not sure what you mean. (design wise, yes, not spec rise).

    To the second bolded text ... amazing. Brilliant. Thats what make Apple ... Apple. People mock Apple for doing this, but thats what every company should do. Show the world why they matter and no one else comes close. Apple just does it with style and class.

  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    To the first bolded text: from what I understand, the Pre 3 and Veer are using Snapdragon processors and not OMAP 3. Not sure what you mean. (design wise, yes, not spec rise).

    To the second bolded text ... amazing. Brilliant. Thats what make Apple ... Apple. People mock Apple for doing this, but thats what every company should do. Show the world why they matter and no one else comes close. Apple just does it with style and class.

    Absolutely right they do. People do mock them.... but only the haters that hate how successful their model is. Simple things:

    1. Don't release things until they work. (100% work)
    2. Don't put useless hardware on a device that doesn't have the software to back it.
    3. Don't announce a product until its ready for release (most likely what makes them the most successful).

    The third is the most important. They announce a product and do not wait until the crowds are done with the hype to release it. HP has announced the touchpad and pre 3, both preproduction models not ready for market time. An availability of summer is too late. With so many tablets coming out, they lose the consumer hype and people end up purchasing other products. Apple doesn't let that happen.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    W

    Added value? With a proprietary standard that will be completely outgunned by the time it is actually launched? You might as well brag about it having amtrac or hd-dvd. It actually decreases the ultility of the platform than improves it.
    Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on one's viewpoint), you have no idea whether this "proprietary" functionatlity will be liked when it's out. Not only that, the "outgunning" standard method you've discussed has been out for a while, and still not very well ustilized. Not only that, it's really not standard, from device to device. Each will utilize their own way.

    But, that wasn't the only integration I was speaking about; however, I'm sure that any I mentioned the whiner/naysers on here would berate it.
  11. #31  
    Something I REALLY liked that Ruby said in one of his interviews is the fact that he does not use any other phones or even touch them. He doesn't want to be influenced by their ways so he can truly come up with NEW ideas and NEW ways of innovation. If you think about this, this is really shinning in WebOS and the way it truly differentiates itself from others. It is a new OS that isn't a runoff of the ideas of iOS or Android.
    What HP really needs to do is get mindshare. One thing they did very well is what they did in the Grammys. I watch a YouTube channel called Rhett&Link and they do a every day vlog. The day after the Grammys, they did one about it and I really liked it because I could see the influence they got on non-WebOS fanatics like me. The first thin they said was about the lady with the TouchPad and they told us their thoughts on it; on how it was kind of awkward because she called the people wrong names but they made a good note that it was very successful marketing and they now know about it. If you want to watch their Grammy vlog and see non-WebOS fanatic response to it you can go here: (PS let me know what you think)
    YouTube - rhettandlink2's Channel
    EDIT: I now realize that is was also their Valentines day vlog too. If you just want the juicy part go to 1:20
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    Finally, an explanation for why the Palm devices haven't come with basic functionality like voice commands. Nothing like intense arrogance from a fringe device/system. HP thinks they're the best because they've never seen the competition, lol.
    Just because he doesn't use it, it doesn't mean his team doesn't. what he says, makes perfect sense.

    He has people look at it, compare them, and steel the best (hasn't admitted to that last part, but common, all the cool kids are doing it), and show him reports. Then they show him multiple ways of doing something, and he, without having been influenced by other devices can make an unbiased decision.

    I read an eminem interview a while back (before his latest 2 albums, back when I thought he was still talented) and he mentioned how he stops listening to other rapers when working on an album, because he doesn't want to start re-creating someone else's work, instead of creating something new. It's the same thing with Palm.
  13. #33  
    I just think specs aren't the most important thing because for the masses of smartphone consumers it's not that important. I'd bet most Iphone and EVO users couldn't tell you what the speeds of their chips are. Apple surely doesn't advertise it. They aren't unimportant. They just aren't that important so long as they get a job done well enough. It's like car engines. For most people it's not the most the end all and be all of a car purchase since they aren't exactly racing.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmagic01 View Post
    I just think specs aren't the most important thing because for the masses of smartphone consumers it's not that important. I'd bet most Iphone and EVO users couldn't tell you what the speeds of their chips are. Apple surely doesn't advertise it. They aren't unimportant. They just aren't that important so long as they get a job done well enough. It's like car engines. For most people it's not the most the end all and be all of a car purchase since they aren't exactly racing.
    Apple doesn’t market their specs? Retina, anyone?

    Everybody markets the specs that they think will resonate with their customers (or at least the specs that they think they can make their customers feel are important.)

    The reality is what it is. Market accordingly to the audience you have. You need to prop up your tech specs in an Engadget articles because blind spec following is what that crowd looks at. But you don’t need to talk all E-nerd specs in a TV commercial.

    They are on the right track with endlessly showing off the “touch-to-share” to the general public, but the (imo much more useful) feature they should be showing people even more is the touchstone charging/display feature. I could think of about 4 or 5 different commercials that could show off its potential.

    Personally, touchstone charging is worth at least 200,000 apps in anyone else’s catalog to me. Based on the look of astonishment and approval I see from people when they see me set the Pre on or take the pre off the touchstone at work, other people seem to agree.

    -Suntan
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

    Personally, touchstone charging is worth at least 200,000 apps in anyone else’s catalog to me. Based on the look of astonishment and approval I see from people when they see me set the Pre on or take the pre off the touchstone at work, other people seem to agree.

    -Suntan
    Really? I don't know if the charging station is that much appear to the public. I would rather see the product that requires less charging. I charge my ipad once every 3 or 4 days. I don't need to charge it. My wife's iphone last whole day without charging, sometime she forgets to charge at night, and it's still got good amount of battery. Plus, touchstone is accessary. It doesn't package with the device. you have to pay extra money to get it.

    Battery life gets better, I am hoping next couple of years, I hope that I don't have to charge my smartphone for few days. Touchstone is nice accessary at best. It can't be the main feature.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    You do know that just because people say things like "Hey, that's pretty cool" it doesn't mean that it's that much of a game-changer, right?
    You do know there’s companies making money off of selling people gaudy, oversized battery-humpback attachments that give this same functionality because a lot of people would like to have inductive charging on their current phones?

    But sure, pointing out the unique usability features to an average customer isn’t as important as pointing out the type of ARM chip inside…

    -Suntan
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    It can't be the main feature.
    Don’t know where I suggested that it is the main feature.

    But it is one of the few features where the pre devices have a leg up on other phones. As such, it should be at least shown to customers.

    -Suntan
  18. cgk
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    #38  
    Charging isn't a sexy feature for most people and the problem with the touchstone charger in a sales environment is that it brings to the fore "why's he on about charging? Does the battery life suck on this thing?".
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Don’t know where I suggested that it is the main feature.

    But it is one of the few features where the pre devices have a leg up on other phones. As such, it should be at least shown to customers.

    -Suntan
    But you did say it worth 200,000 apps. So you have to consider this to be one of the main feature, right? Ok, I have to say webOS multitast has to be the main feature, am I correct? However, I would rather have 200,000 apps with different multitast than webOS multitast with lack of apps.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    You do know that just because people say things like "Hey, that's pretty cool" it doesn't mean that it's that much of a game-changer, right?
    WRONG it is. Coolness is what people are most taken by when it comes to mobile tech. why do u think hp is trying to be "cool like Apple"? what an awful statement... i have a touchstone in my car and ALL my Android/IOS using friends are like "WUUUUHHHtt that is the coolest thing everrr!" it seriously is one of the main things that is keeping me with the pre and is probably going to make me buy the pre3. its that awesome to me.
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