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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    I'm stuck for two years with a phone.
    Look at any phone that was on the market 2 years ago this month. Do any of them stand out as more “future proof” than any of the others due to the processor housed within?

    I guess the point I am suggesting is that I don’t think having a dual core processor will make it any more or less future proof in this fast paced market. Just look at that roadmap slide that Nvidia put out for its Tegra lineup. If they are to be believed, in two years their processor will be capable of 70x more performance than their current Tegra model. Feel free to point out that the current Tegra is long in the tooth, but with performance improvements on that scale, it doesn’t really matter. The things are obsolete as soon as they hit the store shelves, even the ones that are “the most cutting edge” at the time of release.

    In any case, what will a dual core really offer you as far a future proofing?

    Better battery life? I don’t think anyone can make the claim that a dual core offers better battery life. At best it is just a guess right now.

    Better multi-tasking? As far as real world usability, I’ll already take my current pre+ at 500 Mhz over the multi-tasking I have seen on other phones as it is. If a multi-core processor would allow the pre to load webpages in the background, then I’d be all for it. But I’m guessing they block that to limit data transmission latencies as much as for any processor limit.

    Better games/apps? Most likely the only real advantage. Keep the hardware as close to the Androids and the iOS devices and maybe it will catch more scraps that drop off the table. But I don’t necessarily see that as the best company move long term. For apps, how fast do you need your email to run. As for games, yeah it may make a difference down the road if all games become optimized for 2 cores, that a big question though. And honestly, getting more and better games on the Pre3 has a lot more to do with HP and their relationship with game developers than it does with which type of processor architecture they choose right now.

    In any case we will all see, it should be interesting to see the various benchmark tests that will inevitably be conducted once this next generation of single core and dual core phone processors get out in the wild. Regardless of the outcome though, I would still disagree that any of them have any form of “future-proof” built into them.

    -Suntan
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    People that think a 1GHz dual core will be faster than a 1.4GHz single core at most tasks don't understand the technology.

    Most dual core devices don't heavily rely on the second core for performance. Very few applications actually get a significant bump in performance from multiple cores, and in general, the applications that are faster with multiple cores have substantial losses in efficiency with each core you add.

    The only spot dual core technology really makes sense for mobile devices (tablets included) is in true multitasking.
    Surely you jest!!!!!! My Pentium D 805 dual core could run circles around a pathetic single core processor like the AMD Athlon 64 3000+!!!!! How could a single core of a similar price go anywhere near beating a dual core in anything??????
    Last edited by Penopata; 02/21/2011 at 02:36 PM. Reason: added gratuitous punctuation for dramatic emphasis
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Penopata View Post
    Surely you jest! My Pentium D 805 dual core could run circles around a pathetic single core processor like the AMD Athlon 64 3000+! How could a single core of a similar price go anywhere near beating a dual core in anything?
    It's all about optimization. If your OS/Apps aren't optimized for 2 cores, what does the second core do?

    Likely just sit there.

    I really do think that is the reason for not going with two cores.
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  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by angiest View Post
    It seems that dual core is a wee bit much horsepower for a phone.

    Are we looking to get fans installed in our phones to cool all of that?
    Actually I think you can buy water cooling kits for them. You glue the fins to the outside of the phone and then attach a usb fan to cool the fins.
  5. angiest's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Penopata View Post
    Surely you jest!!!!!! My Pentium D 805 dual core could run circles around a pathetic single core processor like the AMD Athlon 64 3000+!!!!! How could a single core of a similar price go anywhere near beating a dual core in anything??????
    Load DOS in both of them, it should be faster in the single core, which very probably has a higher clockspeed.

    If the application is not multithreaded then you will gain no benefit from multiple cores. My experience has been that a single core has a higher clockspeed, and therefore will run a single-threaded task faster than an N-core system.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Look at any phone that was on the market 2 years ago this month. Do any of them stand out as more “future proof” than any of the others due to the processor housed within?

    I guess the point I am suggesting is that I don’t think having a dual core processor will make it any more or less future proof in this fast paced market. Just look at that roadmap slide that Nvidia put out for its Tegra lineup. If they are to be believed, in two years their processor will be capable of 70x more performance than their current Tegra model. Feel free to point out that the current Tegra is long in the tooth, but with performance improvements on that scale, it doesn’t really matter. The things are obsolete as soon as they hit the store shelves, even the ones that are “the most cutting edge” at the time of release.

    In any case, what will a dual core really offer you as far a future proofing?

    Better battery life? I don’t think anyone can make the claim that a dual core offers better battery life. At best it is just a guess right now.

    Better multi-tasking? As far as real world usability, I’ll already take my current pre+ at 500 Mhz over the multi-tasking I have seen on other phones as it is. If a multi-core processor would allow the pre to load webpages in the background, then I’d be all for it. But I’m guessing they block that to limit data transmission latencies as much as for any processor limit.

    Better games/apps? Most likely the only real advantage. Keep the hardware as close to the Androids and the iOS devices and maybe it will catch more scraps that drop off the table. But I don’t necessarily see that as the best company move long term. For apps, how fast do you need your email to run. As for games, yeah it may make a difference down the road if all games become optimized for 2 cores, that a big question though. And honestly, getting more and better games on the Pre3 has a lot more to do with HP and their relationship with game developers than it does with which type of processor architecture they choose right now.

    In any case we will all see, it should be interesting to see the various benchmark tests that will inevitably be conducted once this next generation of single core and dual core phone processors get out in the wild. Regardless of the outcome though, I would still disagree that any of them have any form of “future-proof” built into them.

    -Suntan
    Shame on Motorola for putting a soon to be outdated dual core into their phones! With quad core phones just around the corner, the tegra is already outdated. Plus i read from Anadtech's site that the way the Atrix displays it's pixels (requiring more pixels to achieve a standard look) it is at a disadvantage in games and therefore needs dual core just to keep up with standard displays. Still a fairly impressive phone mind you when compared to an iPhone 4.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    People that think a 1GHz dual core will be faster than a 1.4GHz single core at most tasks don't understand the technology.

    Most dual core devices don't heavily rely on the second core for performance. Very few applications actually get a significant bump in performance from multiple cores, and in general, the applications that are faster with multiple cores have substantial losses in efficiency with each core you add.

    The only spot dual core technology really makes sense for mobile devices (tablets included) is in true multitasking.
    lol... good thing webOS doesnt truly multitask
  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I'm sure they are working on dual core stuff. But when the pre was designed, it wasn't an option. Ironically everyone cried that palm would fal if they didn't use the same snapdragon that appeared in recent droids. And palm did, only at a much higher clock speed and lower power consumption. I'll wait until it ships before I question component choices.
    I am not questioning the choice. I am questioning the motive behind not doing it. I mean, they have it in the TouchPad. Why not their new flagship device? The only reason I can think is because of WebOS 2.0 does not support it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmleonar View Post
    i dont kno if the pre3 is palms leftovers but if it is, thats fine by me cuz i like the form factor, and what, u dont think a 1.4ghz chipset will do the job?
    I have said many times the SoC (aka processor) is more then powerful enough. I just want to know why they did not choose OMAP 4 processor, or better yet, the dual core Snapdragon -- which, btw, Samsung is using in Galaxy S2 phones coming out this year. So the question remains -- when you know everyone else is moving towards this way, why choose to be left behind?

    The only reason I can think of is because 2.0 is not yet ready. They probably didn't have time and had to choose something to get it out. I will end up buying the Pre 3 assuming it comes to Sprint. If it does not and another WebOS device does, then I will be buying that one. If not I will be sad .

    Don't make me sad HP!
  9. #49  
    So much vitriol from people that just want to be angry.

    1) Yes, webOS multi-tasks which would make a dual core phone faster if you were maxed out on multiple apps at the same time. Good thing that doesn't happen. Even my 500MHz Palm Pre minus can run Sprint Navigation and Pandora at the same time. In fact, I've run Sprint Navigation + Pandora + Facebook + Tweed at the same time with the phone overclocked to 1GHz. It was pretty smooth on the extremely outdated TI OMAP processor. A single core 1.4GHz newer generation processor should not bottleneck a smartphone with current mobile apps.

    2) 1.4GHz = at LEAST 2x 800MHz for virtually all applications.

    3) For virtually ALL instances of using the Palm Pre3, a 1.4GHz single core will be substantially faster than a dual core 1.0GHz processor. Especially in gaming.

    Side note for Penopata, I was the co-founder of Intelforums.net back in 2003, and for a couple years, we were a pretty big name in the hardware review world. If you think a Pentium D will run circles around an XP 3000+ in most applications, you're simply wrong. As much as I loved the Intel processors, when the 64bit "Hammer" processors came out, the writing for the Netburst technology processors from Intel was on the wall. The biggest mistake Intel made was not scrapping Tejas and moving toward the Pentium III based Pentium M style processors faster. I've linked a summary of the Pentium D 805 vs the Athlon XP 3000+ back in 2006 from Anandtech. The Pentium D gets beat in virtually all the tests that matter for smartphone users. The wins for the dual core come in with applications like video encoding and content creation. Video encoding and heavy content creation are two things you should NEVER rely on any current smartphone or tablet to handle. Their energy efficient little processors are simply way too slow to offer good performance in intense applications that would use apps that really benefit from multiple cores.

    Intel Pentium D 805 - Dual Core on a Budget - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

    This is just what I'm talking about. If you think dual core technology is an incredible solution for most applications, you just don't understand the technology. In fact, I built a Pentium D 805 rig for a friend that wanted to play WoW with good settings on a tight budget. I would have built her an AMD setup if it weren't for concerns that socket swtiches would limit her future upgrade capability. That's were the Pentium D series processors fit into the equation. Budget performance with the path to upgrading. I upgraded her system, I think last year, to all the little MSI motherboard could handle, an Allendale based Core2 Duo running 2.8GHz.
  10. #50  
    Gateway time out??? after I had all that typed? Paraphrasing my post.

    1) webOS does multitask. The phones that are getting dual cores don't multitask as well as webOS does so maybe they need dual cores to match single core webOS? My Sprint Palm Pre at 500MHz runs Navigation and Pandora simultaneously without problems. If I overclock to 1GHz, I can add Facebook and Twitter apps to the equation and still have no hiccups.

    2) 1.4GHz Single Core = at LEAST 800MHz dual core in virtually ANY circumstance.

    3) In the vast majority of scenarios, a single 1.4GHz will run circles around a 1.0GHz dual core.

    For Pentopata. I was the co-founder of Intelforums.net in 2003, and we were a very well known hardware review site for years. The Athlon XP 3000+ single core will outperform the Pentium D 805 in most circumstances. Virtually ALL cirumstances which are comparable for smartphones because you're not going to be doing intense content creation and media encoding on a smartphone if you have a brain.

    Here is an Anandtech review from 2006 which shows the XP 3000+ whooping up on the Intel Pentium D 805 in many tests, including gaming.

    Intel Pentium D 805 - Dual Core on a Budget - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

    The reason you build a Pentium D rig back in the day (like I personally did for a friend) was budget performance with the opportunity to upgrade. The AMD socket changes really hurt the Athlon XP processors in value. Just a few months ago I upgraded her to an Allendale Core2 Duo at 2.8GHz.
  11. #51  
    Processors don't drive the sales of webOS devices any more than they drive the sales of Blackberries or iPhones. The user experience will drive sales. If the processor used provides comparable or superior performance, it won't matter how many cores it has or what clock speed it runs at.

    Android phones are spec driven because they all run the same OS, so the only point of differentiation is the hardware.
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Processors don't drive the sales of webOS devices any more than they drive the sales of Blackberries or iPhones. The user experience will drive sales. If the processor used provides comparable or superior performance, it won't matter how many cores it has or what clock speed it runs at.

    Android phones are spec driven because they all run the same OS, so the only point of differentiation is the hardware.
    Exactly.
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    #53  
    err ok <mod edit> i never said the hardware was the same at all. i only mentioned that the phones were leftover palm designs and not hp... please do your research before you post baseless accusations -=)


    in regards to :
    It's best to do some kind of research befor you make assumptions. NONE of the hardware inside of both the Pre3 & VEER are even closeto the same as was in the pre, pre+, pre2 or pixi . And I repeat , NONE of the hardware is the same . Completely different .
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 02/22/2011 at 08:26 AM.
  14. #54  
    @evilkell

    yes, Yes, and YES!

    well said.

    'nuff said.
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by ijip View Post
    err ok <mod edit> i never said the hardware was the same at all. i only mentioned that the phones were leftover palm designs and not hp... please do your research before you post baseless accusations -=)


    in regards to :
    It's best to do some kind of research befor you make assumptions. NONE of the hardware inside of both the Pre3 & VEER are even closeto the same as was in the pre, pre+, pre2 or pixi . And I repeat , NONE of the hardware is the same . Completely different .
    I agree with that but who is this directed towards?
  16. #56  
    Great post, Evilkell!
  17. #57  
    I wonder if webos is even multithreaded because if it isnt, it wouldnt really be able to take advantage of the extra core. Only seperate tasks such as the audio engine and other actual linux processes could run on the second core if webos is not multithreaded to begin with.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    Side note for Penopata, I was the co-founder of Intelforums.net back in 2003, and for a couple years, we were a pretty big name in the hardware review world. If you think a Pentium D will run circles around an XP 3000+ in most applications, you're simply wrong.
    I know I am, and you perfectly explained why this is true (and hopefully why I specifically picked those two processors in my sarcasm for comparison), so I thank you; I feel like this "dual core is always better than single core" logic is just a repeat of similar times in the past...

    I can practically guarantee that the Pre3 will run faster on a more powerful and advanced single core than a weaker dual core. Why would you want a SLOWER real-life experience in trade for more "modern" sounding paper specs? When HP has a WebOS that's multithreading ready for phones (assuming that 2.0 isn't, which such as idea is not farfetched in the slightest) then the Pre3.5 or whatever relevant phone release will probably start having dual cores. The TouchPad probably is HP WebOS's first foray into multithreaded development, as I feel like there would be very little reason otherwise to segment 2.0 and 3.0 (beyond tablet/phone segmentation) let alone working on 3.0 so soon after 2.0's initial release.
  19.    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by GenTarkin View Post
    I wonder if webos is even multithreaded because if it isnt, it wouldnt really be able to take advantage of the extra core. Only seperate tasks such as the audio engine and other actual linux processes could run on the second core if webos is not multithreaded to begin with.
    THATS my original question that every one seems to be skipping. We know WebOS 3.0 is, but WebOS 2.0 might not support dual core processors. At least, not yet. We know they are running behind and missed a product release dates last year, so it's possible they picked the most powerful single core processor for their Pre 3.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    THATS my original question that every one seems to be skipping. We know WebOS 3.0 is, but WebOS 2.0 might not support dual core processors. At least, not yet. We know they are running behind and missed a product release dates last year, so it's possible they picked the most powerful single core processor for their Pre 3.
    Whether or not webOS 1.x or 2.x support dual core processors is irrelevant. There are no dual core devices for those operating systems, and there never will be. webOS 3.0 will be extended to the Palm Pre 3 and Veer via an OTA update last I heard.

    The Palm Pre3's single core processor will outperform most of the expected dual core processors in phones that have been announced anyway so even if the webOS 1.x and 2.x OS's did support dual core, there's no reason HP would really have to put a dual core into the Pre3.
    Last edited by EvilKell; 02/22/2011 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Me grammar not so good.
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