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  1. cgk
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I want know why nyc isn't in the touchpad, because HP was clearly working on that as an android device before they bought palm. The pre3 and ever were all palm designs before hp stepped in. So palm made compromises to reflect resource limits. But anything hp designed in the last several years should have it included. TTS is nice, but proprietary and not going to help if I don't buy the phone/pad as a pair, and it won't help when every retailer has it built in to their cash registers...
    What's your understanding of how TTS works? As far as I can see it's standard bluetooth pairing which is kicked off by the Touchpad coils in the phone and tablet going into close contract with each other - does that sound about right?
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    What's your understanding of how TTS works? As far as I can see it's standard bluetooth pairing which is kicked off by the Touchpad coils in the phone and tablet going into close contract with each other - does that sound about right?
    The way it was explained in the developer event was that there is a sensor that recognizes the touchstone back cover on the pre3
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  3. #23  
    I think few will notice the exclusion of nfc. While the technology on the handset side is here, the adoption on the vendor side is not to the point that I would be willing to pay for nfc in my handset. In 18 months when the pre4 our whatever is here I hope things have changed on the vendor side. If they have and the next hp device doesn't have nfc then there would be cause for concern.

    On the specs side, I agree withe the gerbil wheel guy. What I care about is how smoothly things operate on the phone and that the phone can last through a work day of moderate use. With nearly every every smart phone out today and all of the high end ones the rule is still "charge nightly".
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Broadly you are going to see services in three categories - Ticketing, payments and sharing - so things like - the ability to use as token/ticket, general payment methods, instant connectivity between unpair devices (ability to share URLs, contact information, files etc etc instantly), ability to receive information from sensors (so you put it in your car and it instantly logs all your telemetry information).
    Not trying to be snotty here. Honestly, I’m more curious than anything, but are people really “looking” for these features in their life? I mean, I may be showing my age (get off my lawn!) but the ‘ol credit card seems to work just fine for payments. Personally, I’m more likely to leave my phone at home if out for a quick errand than my wallet. I think this nfc hype is a little overblown. If it came down to choosing between touchstone inductive charging and nfc (there’s only so much room on the back of a phone for inductive coils) I’ll gladly choose charging any day.

    As for sharing urls and stuff, I guess that might be useful for business people that spend a lot of time networking. Personally, the very few times I’ve wanted to share that kind of stuff with someone, I just sent it to them in an email. I realize the counter argument would be that with nfc “you just touch them together” vs. open up email, cut/paste, send etc. But in reality, will a person really be able to sync all kinds of info like urls, email contacts etc. to someone with a different brand device that easily? My guess is that if I touched my pre3 up to Sally’s EVO2 the two gadgets wouldn’t do squat unless one or the other was set up to expect to receive some specific form of information, and that would probably take just as much fiddling as sending the email. Maybe that will all be standardized, but I doubt it will happen I the next year or two.

    Anyone remember the contact info sharing by fastIR that was available on the original palms? Anyone ever use that?

    As for car telemetry, I don’t see that being anywhere close to ubiquitous in cars within the next two years. For that matter, if it were really something most people wanted (come on, the average car owner doesn’t even know where to place the roadside jack if their tire blew) that could be accomplished with BT just as easily (yes, you’d have to “pair” them, but that isn’t a big deal when it’s done just once for something like your car.)

    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    The hold-up in innovation so far is simply that users don't have devices with NFC chips in them - there are a lot of phones coming out in the next six months with NFC so that will change - not even at the top-end of the market. ZTE who make budget android handsets is including NFC in all of it's handsets.
    I do understand the frustration in general with HP/Palm not being sufficiently out in the lead with new capabilities. But in the case of NFC, which requires substantial infrastructure in other gadgets (other than the phones of other people) to become truly useful, I don’t see the lack of NFC being a big omission this go around. Maybe if it actually catches on, and the Pre4 or 5 still don’t have it, then it becomes an issue.

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  5. #25  
    Well that nfc chip or whatever it is , is big over in china . They use it in alot of places already but I'm not sure how big it is yet . Alot of vending machines have the nfc stuff and you use your phone to purchase from them .

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  6. cgk
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    #26  
    Not trying to be snotty here. Honestly, I’m more curious than anything, but are people really “looking” for these features in their life? I mean, I may be showing my age (get off my lawn!) but the ‘ol credit card seems to work just fine for payments.
    Already happening and adopted - in the UK, Japan and other places, if you go for a coffee, you can make a quick payment for an item simply by swiping your bank cards near a reader. Millions of people paid this way already as millions of bank cards have been issued with NFC chips in them.

    Same for ticketing, you run to get the train, you swipe your phone over the reader and away you go. A trial of such technology was done a couple of years ago and the response was overwhelmingly positive.

    But in the case of NFC, which requires substantial infrastructure in other gadgets
    Not sure what you mean, needs the chips and some quite straight forward software.
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    #27  
    The probable reason to not have a dual core in the Pre 3 is cost.
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  8. cgk
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    #28  
    My guess is that if I touched my pre3 up to Sally’s EVO2 the two gadgets wouldn’t do squat unless one or the other was set up to expect to receive some specific form of information, and that would probably take just as much fiddling as sending the email. Maybe that will all be standardized, but I doubt it will happen I the next year or two.
    Well the Pre3 has no NFC Capability, so you have to do bluetooth pairing. However, in a NFC capable device, you can use the NFC for instant pairing and then bluetooth for the transfer of data. Interoperability for the transfer of URLs, contact information and the like would be pretty trivial.
  9. #29  
    I'm not that old (early 30s) but even I remember when bluetooth was just picking up steam a commonly described use case was this idea of exchanging contact information with someone else, yet no one uses that possibility today. Why? Largely because it is not a very compelling use case. How often do you exchange contact information with anyone using any method? The fact is that for most (of course not all) individuals this happens at most a few times a year. Not nearly enough to warrant having an always on service running on your phone to take care of it. NFC doesn't do a lot to change this situation.

    Now NFC for payments I am looking forward to once it becomes widely adopted.
  10. cgk
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    #30  
    Why? Largely because it is not a very compelling use case. How often do you exchange contact information with anyone using any method? The fact is that for most (of course not all) individuals this happens at most a few times a year.
    Because bluetooth pairing is a pain in the **** - having said that, don't get hung on the specifics, I'm just providing possible scenarios not outlining what will be most popular.

    Not nearly enough to warrant having an always on service running on your phone to take care of it.
    NFC can operate powerless, so even if your phone went flat it would still be possible to swipe it to pay for the train.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Well the Pre3 has no NFC Capability, so you have to do bluetooth pairing. However, in a NFC capable device, you can use the NFC for instant pairing and then bluetooth for the transfer of data. Interoperability for the transfer of URLs, contact information and the like would be pretty trivial.
    question. Is NFC just a method to initiate a connection over bluetooth? Or are there protocols and data transferred within the nfc handshake or some nfc-specific frequency? Also, what side contains the majority of the hardware and intelligence for nfc? The phone, or the cash register?

    Based on how I think TTS works, it may be able to work with nfc. Not sure, but this is off topic, so we probably need to move to another thread about NFC and TTS.
  12. #32  
    ****.... nope that works...

    Still trying to figure out where CGK's pain is....
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    #33  
    I'm really not familiar with what NFC is, but the use-cases described make it sound almost like a rather souped-up RFID chip. I already try to find the ones in my clothes, do I really want that on my phone?
  14. cgk
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    #34  
    Is NFC just a method to initiate a connection over bluetooth?
    Depends what you are doing - for contactless payment, it's simply the NFC chip. For mobile to mobile usage, Bluetooth has more bandwidth, so the model most people see is for NFC to allow for instant connectivity without pairing and then bluetooth to do the actual transfer.

    Or are there protocols and data transferred within the nfc handshake or some nfc-specific frequency?
    There is a nfc-specific frequency.

    Also, what side contains the majority of the hardware and intelligence for nfc? The phone, or the cash register?
    The cash-register - however, if I understand it correct, embedding NFC in a mobile device rather than say a payment card allows you to use the phone as the cash register - so someone could pay you for example.

    Yes we should have a separate thread for this sort of stuff, so I'll leave it there.
  15. cgk
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    ****.... nope that works...

    Still trying to figure out where CGK's pain is....
    I'm English so it's the english word for **** - starts with A.
  16. #36  
    **** Ah... I found it... well not it per se... just the word... :O)
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  17. #37  
    @cgk

    thanks, i'll move the nfc question to another thread when I get back to a PC
  18. #38  
    back to the OP... Based on the few minutes I got to actually play with a Pre3 independently... It's more than fast enough for the version of webOS it was running. It screemed. Everything was iPhone smooth. Apps opened fast and everything popped. And i'm sure that WOSI will have it overclocked to make it a pocket heater.

    my big concern is battery. The claim is that the CPU is amazingly efficient. If i'm generous and assume 25% better consumption, and add another 20ai for the slightly larger battery... And I'm still not sure I can get through a 10-1r hour day on one charge (because we don't stop using our phone when we leave the office). And if we are pounding the 3G radio non-stop, the cpu efficiency iisnt helping unless the 3G radio and gpu are also more efficient.

    I saw the Pre3 as exactly what I want in a superphone. It was awesome. But I would take bigger size or weight if they used it to cram in more battery cells.
  19. #39  
    I honestly thought that the Pre 3 has dual cpu, wow, that is so lame in today age. All other companies are releasing dual cpu, why wouldnt HP release dual cpu? Maybe they still have one more phone to announce like a 4" slab with dual cpu. If not this year than the next year they have to announce dual or quad core cpu. Hp had so much time to prepare and design new phone and i think they could have done better job. Dual cpu, SD card, 32 or 64 Gigs of space. Better screen, maybe even a bigger screen like 3.8, rumors now floating around that Apple will come out with 4" iPhone 5, so only HP be left with small screen. Sometimes I wonder what did they do all year and who is in charge of new designs for the phone sector. Plus the battery is small, why not put a 1750 battery already.
  20. #40  
    People that think a 1GHz dual core will be faster than a 1.4GHz single core at most tasks don't understand the technology.

    Most dual core devices don't heavily rely on the second core for performance. Very few applications actually get a significant bump in performance from multiple cores, and in general, the applications that are faster with multiple cores have substantial losses in efficiency with each core you add.

    The only spot dual core technology really makes sense for mobile devices (tablets included) is in true multitasking.
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