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  1. #21  
    I would have to say the biggest out cry is from the first Sprint Pre- users. I know I am disappointed not getting a new phone in the next month or if it will even be released on Sprint. There has definitely been a history of Palm telling the WebOs community that this is coming (flash, 2.x) or that it will be ready in the "coming months" but has never actually happened. At least with Apple, you know a new phone will be out like clock work each summer. And Droid phones seem to be coming from different manufacturers daily.

    With the lack of apps, it may get worse before it gets better now that developers will need to start over (Mojo to Enyo). Sounds like the app catalog will need to be reset to zero (?) for the Pre3 until the developers change all of their apps. I was there in the beginning when the app catalog started and the available apps would fit on one page.

    I think the only reason WebOs loyalists are still here is the homebrew community and WebOsInternals. Without their patches, apps and overclocking many a pre users would have been long gone.

    From the front page:
    "What about developers? Honestly - this is a tough one. You can choose to continue to develop in Mojo with the knowledge that your app will work on all current devices - but the shelf life on your apps running as native code could be only a year or so more. The flip side is to opt into the new Enyo framework - but that's still in a pre-release Alpha stage and you literally won't be able to sell a single app until Spring at best when the Veer is released. Note also that developing in Enyo is quite a bit different from Mojo, HP's Matthew McNulty went so far as to say that Mojo developers need to spend time unlearning what they know about webOS before they can properly wrap their head around Enyo.

    Make no mistake: the future of webOS is Enyo. That looks like a very bright future, but current webOS developers may have to travel through a dark tunnel to get there."

    I see HP also is sending a server to WebOsInternals....obviously trying to make amends for all the chaos they have created and keep what is left of the community here. Not sure what they can do for the faithful...coupons for the next phone to be released when? Maybe a world phone that we could use on the network of our choice?

    sorry for the long winded reply, just my thoughts.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    It seems as if, for no logical reason, the Pre 3 has been branded. Even before it was available to be handled, people joked about it.

    OK, that's fine. It would be one thing if the jokes were actually accurate, but they aren't: the Pre 3 has the highest clockspeed on the market. The resolution is great; it isn't quite iPhone 4 pixel density, but it is higher than every Android device on the market. The RAM is good; 512 MB seems to be the sweet spot for webOS. The keyboard seems to be fantastic, which is way more than can be said for previous devices. Same with the build quality; it looks like HP has taught Palm how to drill holes into metal/plastic.

    I've said it before, but here it goes: the only problem with the device is the launch date. If, by some miracle, they can get on the ball and put this thing out in a month or two, they're OK. They won't sell them by the barrel, but they will sell (just like any good product will).

    So I have to ask: why all the outcry? Is it because the hype was so high that HP just couldn't meet it?

    Also: if the Pre 3 had a different name, would it be better accepted? If it's the name that bothers you, and brings back memories that cause shudders, then please: rename it in your mind.

    Either way, the Pre 3 is looking mighty fine.
    Your issue is that this is exactly the point.
    And it's what people are going to think when they see the Pre 3 in the store.

    They are going to think of their experience with the Pre 1.

    It is exactly why you don't keep trying to force a failed form factor over and over and over.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    I can agree but those two are associated with each other now. Life isn't fair.

    Most people check out devices by looks first. One glance at the Pre and they'll walk away. In the past, the Pre, its looks, its form factor meant bad quality. People either found it out the hard way or by word of mouth. It's now a quality the Pre brand carries with it.
    I don't think you understand what a average consumer is, no offence. But most will look at the pre and think it's a pretty cool looking phone. The pre hasn't had as much word of mouth as you think, most people arnt even aware of what a pre is. You can take a trip to the mall and ask everyone that comes through the doors and ask em what a pre is and you will be surprised how much of an effect the pre had on anything other then the tech world. Yea the pre had commercials so what, how much of an lasting empression did that commercial leave..little to none.
  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Your issue is that this is exactly the point.
    And it's what people are going to think when they see the Pre 3 in the store.

    They are going to think of their experience with the Pre 1.

    It is exactly why you don't keep trying to force a failed form factor over and over and over.
    Very few people have ever had an "experience' with a Pre, or even webOS. I'll quote myself:
    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    I don't believe that consumers even know what a 'Pre' is. They don't know who Palm is. They don't know what webOS is. They, frankly, have no previous knowledge of this OS. That's how big of a failure it has been. Therefore, they don't have to fight negative thoughts. It's both a blessing and a curse that a platform that has been out for nearly three years has had this little of an impact.
    HP still has a fighting chance. webOS is nearly unknown outside of these circles. The smartphone market is growing at a faster rate than ever before.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    Very few people have ever had an "experience' with a Pre, or even webOS. I'll quote myself:


    HP still has a fighting chance. webOS is nearly unknown outside of these circles. The smartphone market is growing at a faster rate than ever before.
    I disagree.

    Even people that didn't have a Pre know of the failures of the hardware.
    It's a failed form factor man, I'm sorry, it is.

    Even non-webos devices with this form factor have failed.

    See:
    Kin
    BlackBerry Torch

    So not only do you have the stigma of the Pre 1 but you have the fact that the market has said, MULTIPLE TIMES, they don't want a portrait slider.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I disagree.

    Even people that didn't have a Pre know of the failures of the hardware.
    It's a failed form factor man, I'm sorry, it is.

    Even non-webos devices with this form factor have failed.

    See:
    Kin
    BlackBerry Torch

    So not only do you have the stigma of the Pre 1 but you have the fact that the market has said, MULTIPLE TIMES, they don't want a portrait slider.
    Both of those devices failed because they were slow. The Pre 3 is anything but. They failed for multiple reasons. One wasn't a true smartphone. One was a BlackBerry.

    The only people who know of the Pre are geeks, just like you and me. Our presence on this forum confirms that. The form factor is still a very good one. The BlackBerry Torch is selling, even if it is slow and clunky and is a BlackBerry.

    If the build quality issues have been ironed out (finally!) then this form factor is fine. The ship date isn't, but we'll see what happens there.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I disagree.

    Even people that didn't have a Pre know of the failures of the hardware.
    It's a failed form factor man, I'm sorry, it is.

    Even non-webos devices with this form factor have failed.

    See:
    Kin
    BlackBerry Torch

    So not only do you have the stigma of the Pre 1 but you have the fact that the market has said, MULTIPLE TIMES, they don't want a portrait slider.
    ok 1. The kin was a big bag a fail because it was a teen phone that required a data plan also it was advertised as a smart phone...but with no games or apps the kin wasn't popular because of form factor but because it was stupid also it was suppose to be a "social netoworking phone that's always connected" but refreshedevery 15 mins and that couldn't be changed it didn't support any of twitters main functions it didn't support MMS which me being a teen is a major feature. You also couldn't copy your contact list to or from the phone via any method..no calender so it can sync social network events..no IM client like AIM or facebook chat..no spelling correction or predictive text like T9..no micro sd card..
    2. The blackberry torch idk I see a few people with them so I'm not gonna comment on them.

    3. The "pre form factor" Is not new the pre didn't start it this form factor is actully very popular among "teen" feature phones and I know many friends that have phones with this form factor so once again you have no idea what your talking about the pre having a failed form factor.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by semahjiscool View Post
    ok 1. The kin was a big bag a fail because it was a teen phone that required a data plan also it was advertised as a smart phone...but with no games or apps the kin wasn't popular because of form factor but because it was stupid also it was suppose to be a "social netoworking phone that's always connected" but refreshedevery 15 mins and that couldn't be changed it didn't support any of twitters main functions it didn't support MMS which me being a teen is a major feature. You also couldn't copy your contact list to or from the phone via any method..no calender so it can sync social network events..no IM client like AIM or facebook chat..no spelling correction or predictive text like T9..no micro sd card..
    2. The blackberry torch idk I see a few people with them so I'm not gonna comment on them.

    3. The "pre form factor" Is not new the pre didn't start it this form factor is actully very popular among "teen" feature phones and I know many friends that have phones with this form factor so once again you have no idea what your talking about the pre having a failed form factor.
    Yes...no idea what I'm talking about.

    I give four examples:

    Pre, Pre 2, Blackberry Torch, Kin...that failed with this form factor.

    Can you at least provide ONE smartphone, with this form factor, that didn't fail instead of just sitting here trying to tell me what I don't know?
  9. #29  
    BB
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  10. #30  
    and like I said the form factor is not a fail if it's popular among feature phones...so when people look at the pre there not gonna say "omg honey look! It's the vert full keyboard slider"
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by semahjiscool View Post
    and like I said the form factor is not a fail if it's popular among feature phones...so when people look at the pre there not gonna say "omg honey look! It's the vert full keyboard slider"
    Could you please answer my question:

    I give four examples:

    Pre, Pre 2, Blackberry Torch, Kin...that failed with this form factor.

    Can you at least provide ONE smartphone, with this form factor, that didn't fail instead of just sitting here trying to tell me what I don't know?
  12. #32  
    all this specs dont mean squat if the release it really late. sure its may be the latest now but how about later?
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Could you please answer my question:

    I give four examples:

    Pre, Pre 2, Blackberry Torch, Kin...that failed with this form factor.

    Can you at least provide ONE smartphone, with this form factor, that didn't fail instead of just sitting here trying to tell me what I don't know?
    ok I'll do you a solid and entertain you with the pointless answer of none...now may you prove a point I would love to hear this.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by semahjiscool View Post
    ok I'll do you a solid and entertain you with the pointless answer of none...now may you prove a point I would love to hear this.
    So you openly admit that portrait sliders, no matter if it's palm/hp, microsoft, or blackberry....fail...

    So instead of embracing what IS selling for smartphones....slabs and landscape sliders....hp goes back to what has been PROVEN to fail...


    And you don't think that's a mistake?
  15. #35  
    um no I don't because like I have stated mutiple times portrait sliders are no where near a faild form factor just because 4 phones didn't do it right.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by semahjiscool View Post
    um no I don't because like I have stated mutiple times portrait sliders are no where near a faild form factor just because 4 phones didn't do it right.
    You cannot even name one, NOT ONE, that has been successful!


    So how can you sit here and claim that it's not a failed form factor?

    It, indeed, IS A FAILED FORM FACTOR
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    So you openly admit that portrait sliders, no matter if it's palm/hp, microsoft, or blackberry....fail...

    So instead of embracing what IS selling for smartphones....slabs and landscape sliders....hp goes back to what has been PROVEN to fail...


    And you don't think that's a mistake?
    Why, exactly, are you blaming the failure of these devices on the form factor? Perhaps, if these devices had had no glaring problems, then you would have a point. If these devices had had nothing wrong with them other than the form factor, then your point would be valid.

    Each of the devices you pointed out had something wrong.
    • Pre: Build quality (it still sold, though)
    • Torch: Buggy, slow, crappy browser, rushed to market, universally hated as far as reviews go
    • Kin: Buggy, rushed, pricing messed up, internal politics at Microsoft rendered it, more or less, DOA
    • Pre 2: Dev device. Seriously, hardly counts. It hasn't even been on a carrier in the US yet.


    Plus, there are dozens of feature phones in this form factor that sell well enough, or they wouldn't exist.

    You are blaming the form factor for specific problems that aren't necessarily tied to it.
  18. #38  
    the pre 2 hasnt failed it is still up for sale lol how is that a failure ? because you say so ? ha ha your such the guru and know what everyone wants !? go run a fortune 500 company and run it into the ground lol i would love to see that ha ha !! but if you make it i will shake your hand !! i promise !
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    Why, exactly, are you blaming the failure of these devices on the form factor? Perhaps, if these devices had had no glaring problems, then you would have a point. If these devices had had nothing wrong with them other than the form factor, then your point would be valid.

    Each of the devices you pointed out had something wrong.
    • Pre: Build quality (it still sold, though)
    • Torch: Buggy, slow, crappy browser, rushed to market, universally hated as far as reviews go
    • Kin: Buggy, rushed, pricing messed up, internal politics at Microsoft rendered it, more or less, DOA
    • Pre 2: Dev device. Seriously, hardly counts. It hasn't even been on a carrier in the US yet.


    Plus, there are dozens of feature phones in this form factor that sell well enough, or they wouldn't exist.

    You are blaming the form factor for specific problems that aren't necessarily tied to it.
    The point is that it has never had a successful run.
    Not once.
    So why in the world would another run of it be successful?

    If HP plans on winning in the market they have to change to what is wanted, not what has failed.


    They don't get to dictate what people want.
    Slabs and landscape sliders.
    That's what people want.

    Look around, that's what's selling.


    You can come up with excuses, and some of them make some sense, but the fact is...it's a failed form factor!



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    the pre 2 hasnt failed it is still up for sale lol how is that a failure ? because you say so ? ha ha your such the guru and know what everyone wants !? go run a fortune 500 company and run it into the ground lol i would love to see that ha ha !! but if you make it i will shake your hand !! i promise !
    You are going to try to suggest that a phone that couldn't find a carrier to care to sell it isn't a complete failure?
    Really?


    And I can look at the market and SEE WHAT PEOPLE WANT, yes.
  20. #40  
    its going to be successful because you dont want it to be successful ! and thats the only reason ! simple isnt it lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
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