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  1. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #1  
    I keep hearing the Pre Form Factor "failed", with people equaling "form factor" to "type of phone it is" be it slab, candybar w/ keyboard, vert slider, or horz slider.

    So my question would be this. Was the only thing that caused the Pre's "failure" form factor wise the fact its a vertical slider?

    or did it fail because it had a very small 3.1" screen?

    or did it fail because the vertical keyboard was too cramped to even reasonably be compared to treo's or blackberries?

    or did it fail because the build quality was poor resulting in the "oreo" feel?

    or did it fail because of the poor or cheap construction of various things like the volume buttons or the usb port flap?

    All of these things to me play into the "form factor" of the device, and all were thought of as negatives on the Pre. They also all, from early reports coming out, are being seemingly fixed on the Pre3. You now have a screen on par size wise with the most popular phone on the market. You now have a keyboard that's roundly being regarded as better, with one precentral user whose used it comparing it to the Treo's of old. You have a build quality that is being called sturdier and better feeling than the original. You have metal accented buttons and the removal of the usb port flap.

    The only thing still remaining is the vertical slider.

    So are people who are saying that the "form factor" is what killed the Pre suggesting that all those other issues were irrelevant and the only problem was a vertical slider?

    I remember people stating they were passing on the Pre because it was a vertical slider. I also remember them doing it because the screen was too small. The build quality was bad. The keyboard was too cramped. 3 out of four of those thinsg are significantly improved with the Pre3, yet the suggestion is its going to be the exact same "fail" as the original Pre when it comes to peoples happiness with the form factor. That doesn't make sense to me.
  2. #2  
    already asked such kind of questions here:
    http://forums.precentral.net/general...u-happy-2.html
  3. #3  
    The Pre3 looks like a winner to me. My Pre is now 17 Months old and has no issues. With all of the improvements and hardware upgrades, the Pre3 will undoubtedly be my next phone.
    "Patience, use the force, think." Obi-Wan


    Ready to try Preware? Get this first: Preware Homebrew Documentation
  4. #4  
    Its hard to guess what is upsetting so many Pre users about the Pre 3 (other than the "Summer" release claim). I kind of think people would complain no matter what HP did with the Pre 3. I personally like the form factor.

    ET
  5. Acaluori's Avatar
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    #5  
    Personally, I think it failed because the advertising was some of the worst I've ever seen. Back when the Palm Pre was first being advertised with that creepy girl, I didn't follow smartphones at all, and while watching those commercials, I was just thinking to myself, "That was stupid." Since I thought the advertising was stupid, I thought the product was stupid.

    I don't think that now of course. The only reason I bought that phone was because the sales person from Sprint did a good job at convincing me when I went in for my upgrade. By the time my upgrade came around, I completely forgot about those commercials until about a year after I bought the phone. I like the form factor even though I'd wish they'd offer more.
  6. #6  
    The Pre 3 is objectively an improvement on virtually every aspect of the original Pre and even the Pre Plus. No argument there.

    It is also, objectively, bearing an uncanny resemblance to devices that have an awful, widespread stigma to them and whose form factor is shared by a number of other unsuccessful devices (Kin One, Blackberry Torch) that have likely put a stigma on the entire form factor.

    Most unfortunately, it shares the name of its predecessors.

    That is why the audience had the bad reaction they did when Jon Rubinstein unveiled it. You may be able to sell people on its specs and the virtues of WebOS after you convince them to pick it up and give it a try. But if they're not naturally compelled to do that, all of the other improvements are for naught.

    This was a major problem with WebOS before, and it remains one.
  7. #7  
    The Pre 3 failed because of build quality and it lacked the marketing to garner interest and app development.
  8. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #8  
    The broad list of reasons the Pre failed is huge. Poor build quality, 6 months from announcement to market, small screen that turned people off, small keyboard that turned people off, vert slider that turned people off, lack of apps, poor advertising, locked in on sprint, battery issues, lack of expandable memory.

    There were also things that made it attractive to some. Small size, vert slider (the physical portrait keyboard was something some customers did like, even those that passed on it due to other issues), WebOS, touchstone tech, gesture area.

    Build Quality has reportedly improved. Screen size, improved. Keyboard, enlarged at the least and reported to feel improved. Advertising, unknown but its clear that there's at least more financial backing planned for this advertising campaign. It seems like its set to be able to go both GSM and and CDMA and doesn't at this point appear to be locked in. Those are just the near definities.

    The likely, if we believe HP? There's far more apps then was available early on with the Pre, and the userbase is set to expand greatly in the next year likely helping the amount of apps. The snapdragon is more power efficient thus improving battery life.

    And the questionable or not likely fixed? Its still a vert slider and its still not getting expandable memory. Its ship date is also far off, though it could be as little as 3 and as long at 8 months.

    To me they've fixed a LOAD of the issues with the original Pre while making a competitive device with the majority of high end smartphones set to come out in coming months. To chalk all of the Pre's failure up singularly and simply to the fact that "vert slider" is a "fail" form factor I believe is to completely and utterly reject the reality of the Pre's myriad of problems. It also discounts the notion that there were people who were pleased with the Vert Slider format but went away for all those other reasons.
  9. #9  
    How can anyone say the build quality improved ? Sure it looks good now but a few months or 2 years using the phone and you can tell if it can last. That's what happened with the Pre 1 started having problems months later ie: Oreo, slider, headphone Jack, USB cracks, screen spots, screws falling out, keyboard keys peeling and alot more
  10. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Most unfortunately, it shares the name of its predecessors.
    Responding to the whole post but I know constant quote boxes can make things get needlessly long.

    This, I can fully understand. Less about the form factor itself, more about the perception based on the name and image. THAT I can understand.

    At the same time, I think the Pre's failure is also its boon...I don't think it has an extremely large mindshare so I think its entirely possible that for the majority of the general public that stigma can vanish pretty quickly and for the tech public I think the stigma can go away far quicker with a good device that rolls out actually solid once its in reviewers hands.

    Though I definitely agree with you on the nature of the Pre name and shape potentially being a stigma. That's a take on it I can understand and agree with. I just don't necessarily agree that in and of itself the form factor itself is "fail" or was the reason for the "Pre's" fail singularly, but rather the stigma towards it due to the past.

    I think the form factor could be very successful if the other problems are fixed and its marketed better, which I think could remove a lot of the stigma quickly.
  11. #11  
    Build quality killed it. Design issues buried it. Should have had glass. The USB port was a bad design that led to cracks. The keyboard was bad. WEBos was not ready.

    Other than that, it was awesome.
  12. #12  
    I've been reading the forums A LOT over the past day or so, and the "favorite phrase" of the day is definitely "form factor". *rolls eyes*

    Anyway, I have a Pre- and love the "form factor". I prefer a vertical slider and was excited to learn the Pre3 kept that design. In the future, I think it would behoove HP to create a line of phones that meets all of the demands (landscape slider, ginormous slab, etc.), but in the meantime, it's freshing (at least to me) that HP is keeping with the smaller, portrait slider phones (which is almost non-existent anywhere else).

    Where Palm failed was with the build quality of the phones and the marketing. They used a crappy manufacturer, which produced poor quality phones. The marketing? Simply atrocious. I've never seen such a promising product advertised so poorly. Had they used simple, straightforward advertising that highlighted everything webOS can do, I think it would have been a much different outcome.

    Karla
  13. brdl04's Avatar
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    #13  
    THE IPHONE FAILS!!! They have had 4 iphones in the last 4 years and they all look alike. COME ON APPLE!! HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WIN IF YOU CANNOT PUT OUT A SLIDER!
    Retina sreeen?!?!? WHO CARES!!
    Antenna? PSH!
    Glass on the back!!?!?! Why would you put glass on the back??

    Advertising?? Perfect. Thats why they win....

    you can fail anything you want.
  14. rahrah12's Avatar
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    #14  
    I was never a fan of the vertical slider...but I had been with Palm for awhile and wanted to stay plus WebOs looked really nice. I talked myself into liking the original Pre vertical slider form.

    I am still on my day 1 Pre so I have not experienced all of the problems that others have had but I do feel like it could have been built better...

    With that said the Pre3 is an improvement but everything that set the original Pre apart from the rest of the phones is not really there anymore...I sort of soured on the vertical slide over the last 1.5 years.

    I like that there is a Pre3 option I just wish that there were some other styles available.
  15. #15  
    To people who think the marketing was the main culprit, . They showed everything great about WebOS at the time in close up in iPhone-esque TV ads. Same result as here in America.
  16. #16  
    Well I don't know for sure if the form factor("Portrait Slider') has anything to do with the pre's failure. But I can say I don't know of any Portrait slider that has been a hit. So you can not rule out that the form factor has at least partial responsibility. It doesn't matter what people on the forums want. There is not enough of us to keep a company alive as shown by Palm having to be sold.

    I just think when you have a 1% market share it may be wise to look at what the competition is doing and consider that wow they are very successful maybe that is what people want and hey we already tried a portrait slider that was announced in the winter and then not released for at least a month after..
    I'm not saying that there won't be some market for Portrait sliders but to say it had absolutely nothing to do with the multiple phones that have tried it and failed would be short-sighted. Especially now that the slab type phone is in the mainstream publics mind as the type of phone that is cool.
  17. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by OneDeep View Post
    How can anyone say the build quality improved ? Sure it looks good now but a few months or 2 years using the phone and you can tell if it can last. That's what happened with the Pre 1 started having problems months later ie: Oreo, slider, headphone Jack, USB cracks, screen spots, screws falling out, keyboard keys peeling and alot more
    Engadget's initial review of the Pre

    The Pre, of course, contains a sliding mechanism which reveals a QWERTY keyboard beneath. One of our first minor issues was the build quality here. There's nothing tremendously alarming about how these two pieces connect, but there is certainly a small give when the screen is in its closed position. Sliding the display up, however, definitely made us pause a bit. At first it doesn't seem like there's the kind of tight clicking action you'd expect here -- it does slide up and lock firmly into place, but there's a lot of play from point A to point B. For instance, if you slide the screen slowly, it's possible to just have it stick in a half open state, and we also noticed that there's a divot -- a stopping point -- early on when the slide begins which the screen seems to settle into a bit too easily.
    That wasn't months or weeks later, that was day one of having hands on the device.
  18. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    To people who think the marketing was the main culprit, . They showed everything great about WebOS at the time in close up in iPhone-esque TV ads. Same result as here in America.
    I'm not one that thinks marketing is the main culprit...I do think it was a piece of the puzzle just like many other things. To my understanding as well while Bell's ad's were similar to the iPhones it wasn't nearly the advertising blitz or budget that Apple has or that supposedly HP is alluding to putting behind this.

    The type of Ad is one side, the market saturation of those ad's is another side.
  19. Zyphlin's Avatar
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       #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by spectre686 View Post
    Well I don't know for sure if the form factor("Portrait Slider') has anything to do with the pre's failure. But I can say I don't know of any Portrait slider that has been a hit. So you can not rule out that the form factor has at least partial responsibility. It doesn't matter what people on the forums want. There is not enough of us to keep a company alive as shown by Palm having to be sold.
    This I can agree on. On the flip side, there's a number of other legitimate issues with every portrait slider that's came out. I've already talked about them for the Pre. With the Torch you had the issue of an aging OS that was not excitingly finger friendly so the bonus of having a full touch screen plus a blackberry keyboard wasn't as big for it.

    Would I say Vert slider is a positive at this point? No. But I don't think I'd say its the absolute reason that this phone is "FAIL" either.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The broad list of reasons the Pre failed is huge. Poor build quality, 6 months from announcement to market, small screen that turned people off, small keyboard that turned people off, vert slider that turned people off, lack of apps, poor advertising, locked in on sprint, battery issues, lack of expandable memory.
    Reminds me of when I bought a brand new Oldsmobile Alero back in 2000. Moral of the story is: "Don't buy a product from a company going out of business."

    Palm was in trouble and went out of business. HP is a totally different beast! Largest tech company on the planet, huge marketing and sales channels, manufacturers that pretty much ask how high when they ask them to jump! Im willing to see what happens before writing them off.
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