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  1.    #1  
    I just got done reading some snarky comments comparing the Build problems with the sprint pre to hyundai's early reputation, which has since, quite improved. Instead of hi-jacking the other thread I figured I would start a new one.

    The truth is the build quality of the Pre 3 seems to be greatly improved, not to mention the fact that the Sprint Pre community was by far the most Anal (can I say that), picky community ever (I was a early pre adopter, and still have mine). What do I mean by this? Just troll the logs of this forum and you will find people BRAGGING about returning/replacing there phone 3, 4, or more times on sprint because of "heat spots".

    Seriously, don't preach to us about how much you have done for this community, and how patient you have been if you are one of these lamers who killed sprints impression of the Pre with all your complaints. Sure, there are some legitimate issues with some ofthe initial ones but WHINING about:

    1. Intermitant Heat Spots
    2. Phone not gliding open like you like...
    3. Usb cover sticking
    4. etc.

    You are the people who killed the Pre on Sprint, sure Palm/HP played a roll, but you chumps who got a scratch so manufactured an excuse for a free exchange are a big reason the rest of the early adopters have been LEFT BEHIND.

    Here' to hoping Sprint takes us back, and the rest of you whiners do what you say you will, goto iOS, or Android, and leave this community to the people who really want to see it grow, and be understanding about the growing pains, instead of taking advantage of Palm in the name of screwing over "the man".

    Long live WEBOS and the Pre3

    Nuff said,

    -Cent
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by Centrico View Post
    I just got done reading some snarky comments comparing the Build problems with the sprint pre to hyundai's early reputation, which has since, quite improved. Instead of hi-jacking the other thread I figured I would start a new one.

    The truth is the build quality of the Pre 3 seems to be greatly improved, not to mention the fact that the Sprint Pre community was by far the most Anal (can I say that), picky community ever (I was a early pre adopter, and still have mine). What do I mean by this? Just troll the logs of this forum and you will find people BRAGGING about returning/replacing there phone 3, 4, or more times on sprint because of "heat spots".

    Seriously, don't preach to us about how much you have done for this community, and how patient you have been if you are one of these lamers who killed sprints impression of the Pre with all your complaints. Sure, there are some legitimate issues with some ofthe initial ones but WHINING about:

    1. Intermitant Heat Spots
    2. Phone not gliding open like you like...
    3. Usb cover sticking
    4. etc.

    You are the people who killed the Pre on Sprint, sure Palm/HP played a roll, but you chumps who got a scratch so manufactured an excuse for a free exchange are a big reason the rest of the early adopters have been LEFT BEHIND.

    Here' to hoping Sprint takes us back, and the rest of you whiners do what you say you will, goto iOS, or Android, and leave this community to the people who really want to see it grow, and be understanding about the growing pains, instead of taking advantage of Palm in the name of screwing over "the man".

    Long live WEBOS and the Pre3

    Nuff said,

    -Cent
    Have you touched it yourself?
    Have you used it?

    No, so all of this is opinion based on second hand knowledge?

    The same knowledge that, although may have said it could be better, didn't predict the terrible quality of the original pre....

    Nice.
  3.    #3  
    terrible quality? Seriously? I am still using mine and its great.
  4. #4  
    Yo,

    I agree with most of what you said.

    I am still using my week after launch sprint pre. It's been great. I feel, however, that hp might be a little too comfortable with their position as a company. There is no sense of urgency, and I am not pleased.

    I think I might be done waiting. I could've gotten a new phone and then come back to webos in the summer.

    I guess google is where it's at. There is always a new phone to get running android.

    Maybe, at least, their terminators will go easier on the humans using andriod phones. I like to look at the positive side of things.

    peace,
    B.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Have you touched it yourself?
    Have you used it?

    No, so all of this is opinion based on second hand knowledge?

    The same knowledge that, although may have said it could be better, didn't predict the terrible quality of the original pre....

    Nice.
    Isn't it you who is saying that the Pre 3 is under powered and is "last year tech"? Are you on the floor, playing with the Pre 3? Or are you looking at a spec sheet?

    (which BTW I am actually asking. If your on the floor then please tell me! That would actually mean YOU have touched and played with the device and should know more about it's processing power then I or others here)

    However, if your like us, who have not touched the Pre 3 ... well ... how can you judge it by reading specs alone? Based on, second hand knowledge?
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Centrico View Post
    terrible quality? Seriously? I am still using mine and its great.
    I've used mine everyday since I got it in June 2009 and the only thing that's wrong with it is a little crack that formed when the USB cover broke off. I've been quite happy with it. The Seidio case that I got for it has been a huge disappointment though.
  7. #7  
    I too am on my OG Pre. I'm also hoping Sprint takesanother chance on the HP/Palm devices. I also believe that <<mod delete>> Pre/Pixi (Sprint) users who complained about thephone left a bad taste in Sprints mouth. I don't think Sprint is gonna jump on the bandwagon with the Pre3 until it sees @ least a little success with other carriers. If people want and like WebOS software then complain to the manufacture....not the carrier. People who didn't like the hardware should have blasted Palm and not Sprint. I hope other Sprint WebOS users read this and take there complaints to them (HP) so they can make it right with Sprint who will in turn make it right for us with new hardware.
    Last edited by bevcraw; 02/10/2011 at 11:28 AM.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Centrico View Post
    terrible quality? Seriously? I am still using mine and its great.
    Me too.

    I haven't had the troubles that I see posted here.

    While I wouldn't say it's exactly a rugged phone, it's certainly holding up ok for me.

    I just last week lost the little USB door, which has actually been better in truth.
    Trēo 650 -> Trēo 700P -> Trēo 755P -> Prē
  9. #9  
    So you guys think that because you three claim to be on your release day pre [I'd love to see proof] that the VAST MAJORITY of users haven't replaced multiple times?

    Maybe they're all just lying and you three are just the only honest people in the world?

    Maybe the Sprint technician I was talking to that was telling me the Pre is the most replaced device he's ever seen in his 6 years with Sprint was just lying?

    Maybe all the reports from hundreds of websites, including precentral, were just lying?

    Maybe that's it...
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    So you guys think that because you three claim to be on your release day pre [I'd love to see proof] that the VAST MAJORITY of users haven't replaced multiple times?

    Maybe they're all just lying and you three are just the only honest people in the world?

    Maybe the Sprint technician I was talking to that was telling me the Pre is the most replaced device he's ever seen in his 6 years with Sprint was just lying?

    Maybe all the reports from hundreds of websites, including precentral, were just lying?

    Maybe that's it...
    Soooo what do you need as 'proof' that this is the one and only Pre I've had? No need for me to lie about my Pre.
  11. #11  
    Also....can you really honestly tell me the moment you picked up a Pre you thought it was a rugged phone. Please... I knew the moment it was in my hands to treat is carefully. It was no iPhone, HTC, build quality
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne173 View Post
    Soooo what do you need as 'proof' that this is the one and only Pre I've had? No need for me to lie about my Pre.
    Well the attitude here is this idea that, because the few of you may still have your release day pres, that is hasn't been a complete bust from a quality stand point.

    The fact is, it HAS been a complete bust.

    Complete and utter bust.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne173 View Post
    Soooo what do you need as 'proof' that this is the one and only Pre I've had? No need for me to lie about my Pre.
    So why do you feel the need to say that people who had build problems with their Pres are liars?

    BTW i'm still with my Sept 09 Pre, but my sister is on her 4th, my niece is on her 2nd, and my cousin got hers swapped out for an Android after going through 5 in 45 days. And trust me, they were real issues: keyboards stopped working, touchscreen stopped working, etc. While I agree with you some people did try everything they could to get their "pre count" up, I think they are in the vast minority.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    So why do you feel the need to say that people who had build problems with their Pres are liars?

    BTW i'm still with my Sept 09 Pre, but my sister is on her 4th, my niece is on her 2nd, and my cousin got hers swapped out for an Android after going through 5 in 45 days. And trust me, they were real issues: keyboards stopped working, touchscreen stopped working, etc. While I agree with you some people did try everything they could to get their "pre count" up, I think they are in the vast minority.
    Exactly.

    I went through 12 in 12 months. [and that was back before sprint allowed physical damage to be replaced]

    Brother said 6 was enough for him and moved to Epic.

    Mom is on 3rd in 4 months after getting hers from my brother.

    This guy went through 7

    This one went through 5

    Need I continue?
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Have you touched it yourself?
    Have you used it?

    No, so all of this is opinion based on second hand knowledge?

    The same knowledge that, although may have said it could be better, didn't predict the terrible quality of the original pre....

    Nice.
    Yes, I was able to play with the Pre3 extensively. It is a fantastic device. Slider was tight, the screen was big and bright. The CPU was beautiful.

    The biggest challenge Palm has is that they can't afford to delay shipment for very long as competitors will catch up very soon.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I see posts like this every once in a while.
    And its usually full of complete crap.

    Go into a Sprint store and ask a technician about the Palm Pre. /end of that subject
    It's not "full of complete crap".
    I'm also on my launch day Pre. No cracks, no problems.

    This is not a either/or situation. The Pre can have had a higher than usual return rate while at the same time many/most work fine to this day.

    Let's make up some numbers for sake of argument.
    Let's assume a typical return rate for most models is 2%. Let's make up another figure and say the Pre had a return rate of 7%. That would be more than 3 times the usual rate and lead to significant annoyance for the shops who sell them - but still most would have few or no problems.

    And the people with the problems are way more likely to post about it and fill long threads with angry messages. If things work fine you have less motivation to go to a forum, look for solutions and complain about issues.

    p.s. Again - above figures are made-up to explain a point - I have no actual hard data on the subject.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    So you guys think that because you three claim to be on your release day pre [I'd love to see proof] that the VAST MAJORITY of users haven't replaced multiple times?
    I, for one, am not saying anything about the vast majority. I'm just sharing my personal experience, like you do on a forum. Please don't put words in my mouth. We're just talking here.

    I have certainly read and heard evidence of Pre hardware shortcomings and would agree that it's nowhere near as rugged as, say, the Treos were. Knew that right out of the box actually.

    I also was given a Pre Plus by someone who abandoned hers in frustration and disgust. So I have first hand experience with the faulty keyboard that all those Verizon customers complained about.

    No doubt the hardware was skimped on.

    I'm glad I got a good one.

    On the other hand, when I read about people going through Pre's as if they were Kleenex I do wonder what the hell they're doing with their phones.

    No doubt the returns that Sprint had to cope with are a factor in the negotiations with HP (that and the commercial success of the Android for them).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne173 View Post
    Soooo what do you need as 'proof' that this is the one and only Pre I've had? No need for me to lie about my Pre.
    Right?

    Should we demand proof that all those returned Pre's were returned after only normal use wear and tear? Where does that kind of discussion lead exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Need I continue?
    No. I think I'm good.

    I get your point. You've made it several times in several threads.
    Last edited by Mr._Happy; 02/10/2011 at 04:34 AM.
    Trēo 650 -> Trēo 700P -> Trēo 755P -> Prē
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr._Happy View Post
    On the other hand, when I read about people going through Pre's as if they were Kleenex I do wonder what the hell they're doing with their phones.
    This is what I'm talking about.

    I noted to you that when I had the Pre it was BEFORE Sprint changed the TEP to cover physical damage.

    When I had the Pre they DIDN'T.
    Nor did they when these excess amount of people had their Pre's replaced multiple times.

    I get that you are drawing on your own experience.
    I understand that not everyone has the same experience whether it be worse or better.

    But do NOT sit here and give attitude or disbelief in people simply because they went through so many.

    I will tell you right now, I went through 12.
    It had nothing to do with abuse.
    It had to do with quality.
    My first was DOA at release, for example.

    Except for the Pre I have NEVER had to do more than TWO replacements in a TWO YEAR PERIOD.
    I had to do 12 in 12 months with the Pre.

    So again, I get what you're saying and I understand that some are luckier than others etc.
    But just because someone isn't doesn't mean it's their fault.
  19. #19  
    Ok. So your mileage may have varied. 12 in 12 months is a lot. Sorry to hear about that, must have been rough for you.

    However, I'll point out that being amazed at something and wondering about it is different than saying someone is lying. I never said you or anyone else was lying. I'm just wondering what the hell is going on with that, you know?

    I have spoken to a Sprint rep or two myself. They have indicated that they have had a higher number of returns with this phone than others.

    Did Sprint have to return the vast majority of all the Pre units they sold? Or did they just have to return a larger number than were comfortable with?
    Trēo 650 -> Trēo 700P -> Trēo 755P -> Prē
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    So you guys think that because you three claim to be on your release day pre [I'd love to see proof] that the VAST MAJORITY of users haven't replaced multiple times?
    Actually, while I've spewed just as much bile about yesterday's "big event" as you, and like you, am ready to leave a flaming bag of dog poo on the front steps of HP, I can give you simple irrefutable proof that the "vast majority" of users haven't replaced their phones multiple times. ( I've laid this out a number of times before, but having palm related promises broken is making feel nostalgic, so I'll lay it out again )

    Let's start with your claim that the "vast majority" of users have replaced their phones multiple times.

    Let's say that the average was 3 replacements. That's a total of 4 phones to get a "good one." Who do you think pays for the replacements? Palm. (now HP)

    Let's make the insane assumption that there is a 50% profit margin for HPalm on each Pre. Granted, that's insane, and it's probably nowhere near that high, but let's roll with it. If the average user replaced their phone just one time, they would have absolutely no profit margin at all. If the average was 2 replacements, then not only would they have zero positive cash-flow, but they would have a net loss equal to the manufacturing cost of the Pre for every customer.

    I really don't think there's any point in going further with that one. It's so obviously ludicrous that we can stop there.


    Now, let's look at the nut-jobs who claim to have gone through 10 replacements.

    First of all, you have to look at reasonable defect rates. We could debate that all day long, but as my first example shows, the defect rate has to be lower than the profit margin or the money just doesn't work. So, returing to some semi-reasonable number, let's roll with 10%. One more time with feeling, it can't possibly be that high, or there wouldn't be a WebOS community. Still, let's use it because it will help to placate the crazy people, and it makes the math easy.

    With a 10% defect rate, 1 out of every 10 people will get a defective pre the first time. And of course, a 10% defect rate would logically apply to replacements as well, so 1 out of every 10 replacements would be defective as well. So.....

    9:10 Get a good Pre the first time.
    1:10 Get a defective Pre.
    1:100 Get a defective Pre, that is also replaced by a defective Pre.
    1:1,000 Go through 3 replacements. ( 0.1% isn't exactly a "vast majority")
    1:10,000 Go through 4 replacements.
    1:100,000 - 5 replacements
    1:1,000,000 - Hey, one in a million people goes through 7 phones to get a good one. 6 replacements and a good one for lucky number 7!


    Okay, okay. I see you're not convinced. Let's say the defect rate is 25%. (not possible unless the profit margin is greater than 25%) That's a completely insane number, but let's just run with it to make you happy.

    3:4 Get a good Pre the first time.
    1:4 - 1 replacement.
    1:16 - 2 replacements. That's the bare minimum to call it multiple replacements, and even with our INSANE 25% estimate for defect rates, we're only talking about 6.25% of people. Not exactly a "vast majority."
    1:64 - 3 replacements.
    1:256 - 4
    1:1,024 - 5
    1:4,096 - 6
    1:16,384 -7
    1:65,536 - 8
    1:262,144 - 9
    1:1,048,576 - 10 There you go. With the most insane estimates for defect rates, the chances of 1 person having to get 10 replacement phones as a few people on here have claimed, is once again, over 1 in a million.


    Does such an unlucky person exist? Oh, probably not, but maybe. The more likely explanation is that bad policies at Sprint and Asurion allowed a whole lot of nit-picking idiots to return phones that really weren't defective, because they had grossly unreasonable expectations, or were simply a lot harder on their phones than they were willing to admit.

    I tend to be an Occam's razor kind of guy. If the two explanations are that:

    A. Palm somehow sold a phone that was the most unreliable phone in history, which cost them millions of dollars a day just to maintain the replacements on, yet it still developed a strong base of fans. Also, the fact that my first pre lasted me a year in which I used and abused it in ways that it was never designed to cope with means I'm one of the luckiest people in the world.

    or

    B. People lie a lot, and are reluctant to admit when something is their fault more often than not.

    I'm going with option B.
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.
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