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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    So you guys think that because you three claim to be on your release day pre [I'd love to see proof] that the VAST MAJORITY of users haven't replaced multiple times?

    Maybe they're all just lying and you three are just the only honest people in the world?

    Maybe the Sprint technician I was talking to that was telling me the Pre is the most replaced device he's ever seen in his 6 years with Sprint was just lying?

    Maybe all the reports from hundreds of websites, including precentral, were just lying?

    Maybe that's it...
    Replacing a phone multiple times, doesn't mean that the phone actually should have been replaced. After the Pre was out for four months, I was in SF with my daughter and her friend had a Pre. She complained about not being able to hear on it w/o her headset plugged in. She stated she had returned 4 Pres already and that the Sprint store was tired of seeing her. I was surprised, asked to see her device, I flicked off the top mute button.

    She was stunned. I don't know if it was sliding it in and out of her case, flicking buttons w/o knowing what they did or what; but she had returned four Pres and complained loudly.
  2. #22  
    I can't imagine 12 in 12 months is remotely typical.

    Sent from my launch day Pre.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
    I can't imagine 12 in 12 months is remotely typical.

    Sent from my launch day Pre.
    Please point out where I said it was.
    That's what I thought.

    Stop trying to nit pick my posts to try to prove me wrong.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I will tell you right now, I went through 12.
    And I will tell you that going through 12 has 3 explanations, and 3 explanations only.

    A. You were a lot harder on them than you admit (maybe harder on them than you realize)

    B. You have grossly unreasonable expectations and insisted on returning it for the slightest imperfections; and you were only allowed to do so because of completely idiotic policies at Sprint and/or Asurion. (oreo is NORMAL for a vertical slider)

    C. You are literally the victim of something so unlikely, that you should seriously consider investing in the lotto if there is any balance in the universe at all.


    Logic and math dictate that it's just not realistically possible.

    Perception can lie. Numbers can't.
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.
  5. #25  
    I don't care whether you are right or wrong. I consider you to be irrelevant. If yourexperience isn't typical, which I think was well demonstrated by another poster, then it is not pertinent to the discussion.

    Sent from my never replaced launch day Pre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Please point out where I said it was.
    That's what I thought.

    Stop trying to nit pick my posts to try to prove me wrong.
  6. #26  
    Here's a thread from your own website, folks:

    This was less than three months after release.

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ur-pres-2.html

    832 votes.

    363 of them replaced their device at least once. 160 multiple times.
    In just the FIRST THREE MONTHS.



    Here's another link for you:
    Palm Pre: Sales Great, Share Price Inflated (A Bit) | John Paczkowski | Digital Daily | AllThingsD

    I cannot believe that we are still discussing a known issue because you people are so blind that you actually convince yourself things aren't what they are because it's not what you want it to be.


    Here's another poll taken ONE MONTH AFTER RELEASE:
    http://www.precentral.net/analyst-cl...re-not-so-sure
    2577 relevant votes and 796 replaced at least once.



    <<deleted by mod>>
    Last edited by bevcraw; 02/10/2011 at 11:37 AM. Reason: trolling, baiting
  7. #27  
    These polls are statistically utterly worthless - because they are self-selected.

    Not even close to being representative.

    First - only a small minority of users frequent this forum to begin with. And that minority will already have a unrepresentative larger share of problems - because that's one of the reasons people look for such a forum to begin with.
    Furthermore most people didn't bother participating in that poll. Of those who did participate the angry people with the most problems are most likely to vote.

    I'm *not* saying there were no problems.
    Just that these polls *prove* exactly nothing.
    At best they can provide a hint hat return rates probably were higher than normal. But we already knew this from tales from Sprint employees.

    I believe the returns rate were higher than normal - I think that part is uncontroversial - so the only question is how much higher. We don't know. But it's fairly safe to assume that 5-10 replacements are at the freakish high end and not typical. It's also a fair assumption that many people are actually on their first phone - and just never bother to write on a forum about that.
    Day 256: My car is still running, Toaster also fine. Key still opens door. Etc...

    [QUOTE=Mattykinsx;2859084]Here's a thread from your own website, folks:

    This was less than three months after release.

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ur-pres-2.html

    832 votes.

    363 of them replaced their device at least once. 160 multiple times.
    In just the FIRST THREE MONTHS.



    Here's another link for you:
    Palm Pre: Sales Great, Share Price Inflated (A Bit) | John Paczkowski | Digital Daily | AllThingsD

    I cannot believe that we are still discussing a known issue because you people are so blind that you actually convince yourself things aren't what they are because it's not what you want it to be.


    Here's another poll taken ONE MONTH AFTER RELEASE:
    Analyst Claims Palm Pre Return Rates Are High. We're Not so Sure | PreCentral.net | The #1 Palm Pre and Pixi Community
    2577 relevant votes and 796 replaced at least once.



    <<deleted by mod>>
    Last edited by bevcraw; 02/10/2011 at 11:38 AM.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Here's a better truth:

    The Pre was a failure.
    Sprint ended up not making any or very little with the Pre because they replaced so much of em that the cost was higher than the profit.

    Thus, they didn't pick up the Pre 2 and are reluctant with the same device designs again.
    Sound more plausible than "everyone is a liar but me because I make really long posts and use random statistical analysis to try to back up what I'm saying"?
    Yeah, it does.

    In fact it fits pretty much perfectly.
    /thread

    moving on...or at least back to the topic about the Pre 3 hardware quality...
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Here's a thread from your own website, folks:

    This was less than three months after release.

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ur-pres-2.html

    832 votes.

    363 of them replaced their device at least once. 160 multiple times.
    In just the FIRST THREE MONTHS.
    Really? You want to talk about made up statistics? At least my made up statistics erred so far in your favor as to be laughable.

    That poll, as many people in that discussion pointed out, is completely invalid, and I'll lay the reasons out for you.

    1. Neurotic tech geeks like us are more likely to post here. Just look around. We, as a group, are far more likely to be overly nit-picky. No poll from this site could EVER be representative of the entire user base. I suspect that the majority of Pre owners have never even heard of Precentral.

    2. A thread like that attracts all the people like you. Every single person on the site who has had problems jumped on that poll, but the only people without problems who participated were people like me. The average problem free user doesn't care about polls on defect rates. The same thing happened with the battery life poll. People who didn't have trouble with their battery life ignored it, so the results were grossly skewed.

    3. No poll is valid unless the participants are a random sample with a minimum sample size. It's been a while since I had to calculate a minimum sample size for statistical validity, but if you really want, I can go dig out the textbook from my last stats class. Either way, trust me. This isn't it.

    4. If your poll results are in direct conflict with logic and mathematics, it's time to redesign your polling process.


    And just to knock your argument down one more peg, go look at the results. 56% of respondants, despite the obvious bias in the other direction, said they were on their first Pre. That's a majority.

    Even if you take the other garbage articles that try using forum geek polls as valid, 40% of people having to return their Pre at least once, is a far cry from "the vast majority of user returing theirs multiple times."

    Your own grossly overstated evidence based on bad poll points out that you are grossly overstating the problem.
    Last edited by VeeDubb65; 02/10/2011 at 05:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    Really? You want to talk about made up statistics? At least my made up statistics aired so far in your favor as to be laughable.

    That poll, as many people in that discussion pointed out, is completely invalid, and I'll lay the reasons out for you.

    1. Neurotic tech geeks like us are more likely to post here. Just look around. We, as a group, are far more likely to be overly nit-picky. No poll from this site could EVER be representative of the entire user base. I suspect that the majority of Pre owners have never even heard of Precentral.

    2. A thread like that attracts all the people like you. Every single person on the site who has had problems jumped on that poll, but the only people without problems who participated were people like me. The average problem free user doesn't care about polls on defect rates. The same thing happened with the battery life poll. People who didn't have trouble with their battery life ignored it, so the results were grossly skewed.

    3. No poll is valid unless the participants are a random sample with a minimum sample size. It's been a while since I had to calculate a minimum sample size for statistical validity, but if you really want, I can go dig out the textbook from my last stats class. Either way, trust me. This isn't it.

    4. If your poll results are in direct conflict with logic and mathematics, it's time to redesign your polling process.
    Look, I don't care about this subject, NOR ARE WE ACTUALLY DISCUSSING ONLINE POLL VALIDITY HERE
    Are those statistics perfect?
    OF COURSE NOT.
    Are they an EXACT representation of what happened?
    OF COURSE NOT.

    Do they show that there was OBVIOUSLY build quality issues?
    Absolutely.
    Is that why I brought them up?
    Absolutely.

    Does it all fit with my comment about Sprint not picking up the Pre +/Pre 2 because of the reason I listed?
    Almost perfectly.

    Is this subject beat to death because you keep trying to nit pick my posts because you don't like the truth of the matter?
    Yeah.

    So... lets go back to topic or get this thread closed.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Look, I don't care about this subject, NOR ARE WE ACTUALLY DISCUSSING ONLINE POLL VALIDITY HERE
    Are those statistics perfect?
    OF COURSE NOT.
    Are they an EXACT representation of what happened?
    OF COURSE NOT.

    Do they show that there was OBVIOUSLY build quality issues?
    Absolutely.
    Is that why I brought them up?
    Absolutely.

    Does it all fit with my comment about Sprint not picking up the Pre +/Pre 2 because of the reason I listed?
    Almost perfectly.

    Is this subject beat to death because you keep trying to nit pick my posts because you don't like the truth of the matter?
    Yeah.

    So... lets go back to topic or get this thread closed.
    I never said there weren't problem. I said your claims about how many people needed multiple replacements were ridiculous and overstated; which they are. I also said that your claim of 12 units was only reasonably explained by the small set of explanations I posted, which it is.

    All products have a certain percentage of defects. The Palm Pre certainly had more defects than many of it's competitors.

    However, that doesn't mean that claiming the "vast majority" of people had to get multiple replacements is anything but complete nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    It is as if you said that the result a dog and a cat mating was a giraffe. It's so completely wrong, that it's difficult to argue with someone who believes it to be true.
  12. #32  
    Launch day I bought 2 Palm Pre. Wasn't going to do that - I had a perfectly functional Treo 755p, son's phone died and he was using my A920 until I could get him a replacement.

    My launch day pre is still going strong - the power button is a little wonky - no spring left in it but it works. Last fall, I inquired if it could be repaired and they told me they would could order me a replacement without cost even though I have TEP. I decided that I would wait until something else went wrong before I would consider a replacement.

    My son's Pre has been replaced.
    July 2009 - replaced since it was turning itself off when he used the slider a "problem" several forums had users report on. Did he drop it, yank the slider out too hard, or aggravate the condition? Unknown but he is a teenager.
    November 2009 - cracked screen - he's a high school kid - did he abuse the phone or was there a manufacturing defect? I suspect there may have been a combination of factors. Used TEP for replacement.
    April 2010 - cracked screen because the ***** tripped and dropped the phone and it "hit a rock" definitely user error. Used TEP.

    When both phones are next to each other, you can see the difference in the condition of the units. Mine is in a case with the same invisible shield on it. My kid's invisible shield is peeling off, he apparently can't find the charger so he replaces the battery every morning with the spare one on the charger.

    One thing I noticed that if the forums start posting about defects - people become hyper vigilant about the posted defects - sort of negatives feed more negatives, until it is an endless loop. I know I started looking for defects after reading about them.

    Would I buy the Pre 3? Absolutely - the functionality of the OS makes it worthwhile. My son uses the Pre to do homework when he doesn't have access to his netbook.

    Do I think the replacement of my son's Pre was due to manufacturing defects? Maybe - maybe not - it was probably a combination of putting a delicate piece of equipment in a teenager's hands. I don't "baby" my phone but this is still an expensive piece of electronics.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaroo View Post
    Launch day I bought 2 Palm Pre. Wasn't going to do that - I had a perfectly functional Treo 755p, son's phone died and he was using my A920 until I could get him a replacement.

    My launch day pre is still going strong - the power button is a little wonky - no spring left in it but it works. Last fall, I inquired if it could be repaired and they told me they would could order me a replacement without cost even though I have TEP. I decided that I would wait until something else went wrong before I would consider a replacement.

    My son's Pre has been replaced.
    July 2009 - replaced since it was turning itself off when he used the slider a "problem" several forums had users report on. Did he drop it, yank the slider out too hard, or aggravate the condition? Unknown but he is a teenager.
    November 2009 - cracked screen - he's a high school kid - did he abuse the phone or was there a manufacturing defect? I suspect there may have been a combination of factors. Used TEP for replacement.
    April 2010 - cracked screen because the ***** tripped and dropped the phone and it "hit a rock" definitely user error. Used TEP.

    When both phones are next to each other, you can see the difference in the condition of the units. Mine is in a case with the same invisible shield on it. My kid's invisible shield is peeling off, he apparently can't find the charger so he replaces the battery every morning with the spare one on the charger.

    One thing I noticed that if the forums start posting about defects - people become hyper vigilant about the posted defects - sort of negatives feed more negatives, until it is an endless loop. I know I started looking for defects after reading about them.

    Would I buy the Pre 3? Absolutely - the functionality of the OS makes it worthwhile. My son uses the Pre to do homework when he doesn't have access to his netbook.

    Do I think the replacement of my son's Pre was due to manufacturing defects? Maybe - maybe not - it was probably a combination of putting a delicate piece of equipment in a teenager's hands. I don't "baby" my phone but this is still an expensive piece of electronics.
    Yeah yeah yeah...cop out on your son being younger.
    Buy him an Evo and see if he replaces it.
    I bet he doesn't once.

    Moving back to topic now
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    I've used mine everyday since I got it in June 2009 and the only thing that's wrong with it is a little crack that formed when the USB cover broke off. I've been quite happy with it. The Seidio case that I got for it has been a huge disappointment though.
    I bought my Pre on launch day and on day 2 i realized that when swiping and touching the phone in the closed mode it wiggled and gave noticeably. Not a tiny bit. I didn't go looking for it and twisting my phone to see what would happen. Swiping the screen made the top layer move in that direction a little. Tapping the screen naturally made the screen press in slightly. I joked at the time that it was like the Blackberry Storm's push screen.

    I returned it and a Palm rep was there saying it was a known issue.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Yeah yeah yeah...cop out on your son being younger.
    Buy him an Evo and see if he replaces it.
    I bet he doesn't once.

    Moving back to topic now
    Dude in every thread your posting in all your doing is arguing with everyone and not discussing anything . Relax for real . Not everyone thinks like you nor will they . Geeeesh

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  16. ludvball's Avatar
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    #36  
    I've had my pre since Nov 09. I am still on the first one. Dropped it and cracked corner. Still works great! I am looking forward to the Pre 3 coming to Sprint so I can upgrade to it.

    I tend to not post to polls, even though I have been very happy. I am sure there are many more like me. My wife doesn't even know what PreCentral is, and she has had a Pixi for about a year. No complaints from her.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Yeah yeah yeah...cop out on your son being younger.
    Buy him an Evo and see if he replaces it.
    I bet he doesn't once.

    Moving back to topic now
    WOW -
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    The fact is, it HAS been a complete bust.
    On one hand, you want to discredit other people's opinions when they don't match your own.

    On the other, you want your *opinion* based on your *alleged* experience to be considered fact.

    And that, my friend, is hypocrisy. THAT is a fact.


    PS: I like how you want to compartmentalize the group of people that weren't little b!tches about the quality of their phone and haven't gone through a dozen (which makes me question your combination of persistence and other less charitable descriptors). I returned mine once, so add me to the list of people who don't find the hardware a "complete bust" like you.
  19. #39  
    Im also on my first day pre... and... couldnt be that the issue isnt on the device but on the user? how do you take care of it?
  20. gonk24's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Centrico View Post
    I just got done reading some snarky comments comparing the Build problems with the sprint pre to hyundai's early reputation, which has since, quite improved. Instead of hi-jacking the other thread I figured I would start a new one.

    The truth is the build quality of the Pre 3 seems to be greatly improved, not to mention the fact that the Sprint Pre community was by far the most Anal (can I say that), picky community ever (I was a early pre adopter, and still have mine). What do I mean by this? Just troll the logs of this forum and you will find people BRAGGING about returning/replacing there phone 3, 4, or more times on sprint because of "heat spots".

    Seriously, don't preach to us about how much you have done for this community, and how patient you have been if you are one of these lamers who killed sprints impression of the Pre with all your complaints. Sure, there are some legitimate issues with some ofthe initial ones but WHINING about:

    1. Intermitant Heat Spots
    2. Phone not gliding open like you like...
    3. Usb cover sticking
    4. etc.

    You are the people who killed the Pre on Sprint, sure Palm/HP played a roll, but you chumps who got a scratch so manufactured an excuse for a free exchange are a big reason the rest of the early adopters have been LEFT BEHIND.

    Here' to hoping Sprint takes us back, and the rest of you whiners do what you say you will, goto iOS, or Android, and leave this community to the people who really want to see it grow, and be understanding about the growing pains, instead of taking advantage of Palm in the name of screwing over "the man".

    Long live WEBOS and the Pre3

    Nuff said,

    -Cent
    Some of the return/replace issues could have been easily fixed if Palm would have made parts available to Sprint. Replacing a phone for a broken power button that is a 5 minute fix? Eventually Sprint did get some parts but most things are still just taken care of with a refurb. The refurbs my experience are hit and miss to get a problem free one out of the store


    Pre 1:After 1 week started opening tons of cards by itself and locking up. Not knowing about the Dr, I returned it for another one

    Pre 2:Huge oreo, slider sometimes not working/sticking badly (screw inside came out)

    Pre 3:Earpiece speaker stopped working (not stuck headset mode)

    Pre 4: Dropped and broke screen

    Pre 5: A key did not work

    Pre 6: Has been excellent so far

    Wife

    Pre 1: Usb crack onto screen

    Pre 2: Earpiece speaker stopped working (not stuck headset mode)

    Pre 3: Earpiece speaker again

    Pre 4: Screw is out inside causing slider to jam (not replaced yet)

    That's TEN Pres between my wife and I. Prior to the Pre, I've had ONE phone replaced during its life cycle.
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