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  1. #141  
    Some want HP to jump into a spec war with Apple and Android phones. I guess it's cool to a certain segment and gives them something to crow about to other tech geeks for a month, or two. However, I think that is the main problem with getting into a spec war, no matter how much of a homerun you hit, within two months someone will usurp your position. It is not a foundation from which to build a long-term successful strategy, or differentiating factor. Now, the complete ecosystem path HP demonstrated and talked about yesterday shows potential to be a long-term competitive advantage. Although, I will agree some of that got lost in the announcement, hard to see the forest for the trees, if you will.

    I don't know that they're quite where they need to be just yet, but I saw some good signs yesterday: the eprint thing, touch to share, still the only true multi-tasking OS, webOS coming to PC's...

    There is actually a lot to love about the announcement yesterday. Where I think they did not quite hit the homerun was on specificity of release dates (may have more to do with carriers than HP though) and focus of message. If HP's niche/selling point is that it's not about being the "coolest" gadget for 3 minutes, or cramming more clutter into a device (anybody remember the projector phone), but is about truly enabling people get more life into their life, then that should have been what was hammered home at the announcement.

    All in all, I think their on the right track. It was a more of a double when a homerun would have been nice (but not really necessary) and some of us were, deep down in our hearts, hoping for a grand slam.

    Gargoyle
  2. cgk
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    #142  
    If HP's niche/selling point is that it's not about being the "coolest" gadget for 3 minutes, or cramming more clutter into a device (anybody remember the projector phone), but is about truly enabling people get more life into their life, then that should have been what was hammered home at the announcement.
    Wasn't that the Windows 7 message?
  3. #143  
    Yeah, I think Windows Phone 7 took that baton already. But they didn't grab the "Professional with a work phone that they won't want to leave at work" lane, so ha!
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by bronxbomber View Post
    But I think had pre3 been available tomorrow most would snap it up without any complaints and the event would be deemed a super success.
    +1
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post


    It's funny and it's the absolute truth.


    While you're watching, read some comments.
    YES;That was funny and true
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    #146  
    In defense......I saw an article a few weeks ago listing the top 10 most popular apps on the iphone. The WebOS app store has similar apps available for every one of those except one or two that require API access to the microphone. I also happened to have all those 'similar' apps on my Sprint Pre, and am satisfied with their performance. I think a single 48nm generation performance CPU is more than adequate for a phone for the following year, because of the lack of applications using both cores. HP stated in the past that they have numerous products planned. I suspect HP, like Apple, will probably have a top of the line phone product cycle of 1 year, and a year from now they will have dual core phones using processors with a proven reliability record and some software that will utilize the hardware. Bleeding edge hardware is for enthusiasts, not the populari. I like the form and function of the Pre 3 hardware and operating system.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by gargoylejps View Post
    Some want HP to jump into a spec war with Apple and Android phones. I guess it's cool to a certain segment and gives them something to crow about to other tech geeks for a month, or two. However, I think that is the main problem with getting into a spec war, no matter how much of a homerun you hit, within two months someone will usurp your position. It is not a foundation from which to build a long-term successful strategy, or differentiating factor. Now, the complete ecosystem path HP demonstrated and talked about yesterday shows potential to be a long-term competitive advantage. Although, I will agree some of that got lost in the announcement, hard to see the forest for the trees, if you will.

    I don't know that they're quite where they need to be just yet, but I saw some good signs yesterday: the eprint thing, touch to share, still the only true multi-tasking OS, webOS coming to PC's...

    There is actually a lot to love about the announcement yesterday. Where I think they did not quite hit the homerun was on specificity of release dates (may have more to do with carriers than HP though) and focus of message. If HP's niche/selling point is that it's not about being the "coolest" gadget for 3 minutes, or cramming more clutter into a device (anybody remember the projector phone), but is about truly enabling people get more life into their life, then that should have been what was hammered home at the announcement.

    All in all, I think their on the right track. It was a more of a double when a homerun would have been nice (but not really necessary) and some of us were, deep down in our hearts, hoping for a grand slam.

    Gargoyle
    I agree with that. Spec up-manship is a waste of time unless youíre business model is HTCs (churn them out and then get ready to release the next one two weeks later.) Nothing wrong with that as it seems HTC is making a good business for itself with that model and their costs are such that they can be competitive doing it. But a company like HP wonít (or canít) compete at that fast pace.

    Personally, Iím much more interested in a phone that has a fluid interface than I am worrying about a phone that has a 7.3 Ghz octo-core processor. A phone that can multi-task to handle swapping back and forth apps so I can find info on a website, then text/email it to someone else, etc. than I am about it having 4 GB of active memory. A phone with a good quality screen that is big enough to be usable, but still fits in my pants and doesnít make the user look like a dork when they put it up to their face, than I am about have a 4Ē+ screen etc. etc.

    Personally, the slightly larger screen is appealing to me now that I see it (previously I was of the opinion that the 3.2Ē on the Pre was ďenoughĒ) but I still need to confirm that it isnít too big in person.

    The Pre+ confirmed, for me, that even the worst possible physical keyboard is still preferable to a screen based keyboard. If the pre3 keyboard is a marked improvement (which seems to be from the early reports) Iím stoked.

    I would have been fine with a landscape keyboard, especially if they added real direction keys. But looking at the pre3, it appears they placed the mic on the keyboard instead of the front face. That means that sliding the keyboard out for a call should improve audio pickup even further (get it closer to your mouth) which is a plus in my book.

    The fact that it will be a world phone is a huge plus that I didnít expect. I know most people donít care about that, but for me it will mean not having to check out a clunky company phone from IT everytime I have to travel to Europe. Iím really stoked about this.

    Lastly, the ability to have a touchpad by the couch downstairs and the phone up on the charger dock upstairs and still have everything (notifications/emails/phone calls/etc.) available between the two sounds great.

    I also agree though that for yesterday to be a true homerun, they would have ended the presentation with announcing release dates and (2 yr contract subsidized) prices for the various carriers, MSRP for the wifi touchpad, and finished up with an announcement as to when webOS 2.X would start rolling out to all the current handsets OTAÖ

    -Suntan
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    The spec sheet is fine except the 4G. The problem is this is evolutionary. Evolutionary will not surpass Apple or Android. The pace of development is too slow. Those specs will be in every Android device that launches at the same time and there will be dozens. Those specs won't be better than Apple's announced iPhone 5.

    When you're in last place, you can't win running the same speed as your competitors.

    The Pre was revolutionary. Buggy and not well executed, but revolutionary. Because of issues at launch and the Android Armada, it landed like a pebble in the ocean. Evolution usually follows the revolution. HP doesn't have that luxury. It's like if RIM announced a Blackberry with a better keyboard. Who cares except Blackberry users (of which there are many more than WebOS)?
    You've made some very good points here.
  9.    #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    That IS FAIR and TRUE. The Pre 3 IS NOT a game changer. But it is not a under powered, last year tech phone. It's also no super phone.
    MY ASSESSMENT

    Business-focus
    • Keyboard
    • Multitasking
    • Office integration
    • Integration of personal info (Yahoo, Google, LinkedIn, Facebook)
    • Road Warrior Software (GPS, Directions, Yelp)


    Consumer-focus
    • Large Screen
    • Ease of use (*****-proof)
    • Gaming prowess (processor)
    • Audio access and quality
    • Video access and quality
    • Social networking ease
    • Photo
    • Integration with Google/Yahoo cloud ecosystems


    HP and the Pre3 are in the sweetspot of business and if the hardware is solid, it should be fine there.

    The market share problem is cell phones are now like TVs. Everyone will have one. Corporate market share will be a small fraction of total market share. Consumers will anoint the king and that will drive developers, apps and the dominant ecosystem.

    Products are not sticky. Ecosystems are. Without being one of the two or three dominant ecosystems, there's little hope for even good products.

    Remember Betamax?
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    MY ASSESSMENT

    Business-focus
    • Keyboard
    • Multitasking
    • Office integration
    • Integration of personal info (Yahoo, Google, LinkedIn, Facebook)
    • Road Warrior Software (GPS, Directions, Yelp)


    Consumer-focus
    • Large Screen
    • Ease of use (*****-proof)
    • Gaming prowess (processor)
    • Audio access and quality
    • Video access and quality
    • Social networking ease
    • Photo
    • Integration with Google/Yahoo cloud ecosystems


    HP and the Pre3 are in the sweetspot of business and if the hardware is solid, it should be fine there.

    The market share problem is cell phones are now like TVs. Everyone will have one. Corporate market share will be a small fraction of total market share. Consumers will anoint the king and that will drive developers, apps and the dominant ecosystem.

    Products are not sticky. Ecosystems are. Without being one of the two or three dominant ecosystems, there's little hope for even good products.

    Remember Betamax?
    Again, all very true . I hope the Pre 3 will do well. I don't know if it will. But what I do know is it's a great device with a lot of power (both software and hardware) behind it and it RULES (in my world). I just hope It comes to Sprint because then I will be forced to get a BlackBerry, Android or Windows phone. That would make me sad.
  11. mike5's Avatar
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    #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by JKK Photography View Post
    The only company that has been able to not play this game and win is Apple.
    ??? You have heard the term "retina display" haven't you?
  12. mike5's Avatar
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    #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    HP is (or should be) trying to maximize shareholder value. Doing so involves making consistent profit. Unlike Google, HP won't be allowed (by investors) to birdwalk down black holes for long.

    Great, no extinction. Where are the profits? Where is the return on the investment in purchasing Palm and in developing all this stuff?

    Also there is the 'opportunity cost.' The opportunity to get Android FREE and do the same thing they're doing now.

    That's how HP will be judged by the non-geek world.
    ??? Here is when there next earnings report comes out:
    -------------
    FEB
    22
    HPQ to announce Q1 earnings After Market (Confirmed)
    FEB
    22
    HPQ Earnings Conference Call at 5:00 PM
    --------------
    The stock price has gone up from about $39 to $49 since September. That's about 25% in 6 months. They have gone through a very public resigning or firing of their CEO, but as a shareholder, I have been quite happy the last 6 months. I also like that they like webOS LONG TERM vs you seem to be looking short term. All investors have different styles, but I have been happy w/their stock performance thus far.
  13.    #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    ??? Here is when there next earnings report comes out:
    -------------
    FEB
    22
    HPQ to announce Q1 earnings After Market (Confirmed)
    FEB
    22
    HPQ Earnings Conference Call at 5:00 PM
    --------------
    The stock price has gone up from about $39 to $49 since September. That's about 25% in 6 months. They have gone through a very public resigning or firing of their CEO, but as a shareholder, I have been quite happy the last 6 months. I also like that they like webOS LONG TERM vs you seem to be looking short term. All investors have different styles, but I have been happy w/their stock performance thus far.
    The entire market is gangbusters right now. I agree they are taking a long term approach. I like that. I just believe there is a serious first-mover advantage in maturing technology spaces.

    HP used to make money on innovation (i.e. high profit margins - ala Apple). In this area, they may be setting themselves up to be a volume player through Best Buy with cheap laptops. You can still make money, but I think they could've had both if they had hit more of a home run.
  14. #154  
    Nokia took a long term approach too. Long term approaches really work exceptionally well in the mobile technology market.
  15.    #155  
    Here's my other big concern about anyone taking on apple in this space.
    iPad 2 shows Tim Cook is Apple's new ninja - Computerworld Blogs
    However, if anyone can make this work, HP can.
    __________________________________
    Palm Pilot, Palm III, Palm V, Palm Vx, Kyocera 7135, Treo 650, Treo 680, Treo 700p, Centro, Palm Pre (minus) . . . ???
  16. mike5's Avatar
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    #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    HP used to make money on innovation (i.e. high profit margins - ala Apple). In this area, they may be setting themselves up to be a volume player through Best Buy with cheap laptops. You can still make money, but I think they could've had both if they had hit more of a home run.
    I thought the TouchPad had many innovations as well as webOS 2.x & 3.0. The biggest risk and of innovation, IMO, is cutting clean & going to Enyo as well as announcing webOS would be on there PCs.

    Risky, exciting...hope it works!
  17.    #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    I thought the TouchPad had many innovations as well as webOS 2.x & 3.0. The biggest risk and of innovation, IMO, is cutting clean & going to Enyo as well as announcing webOS would be on there PCs.

    Risky, exciting...hope it works!
    Risky yes. Whether it's innovative remains to be seen.

    First question to answer. Is there anything on the Touchpad I can do I can't on iPad?
    Second question to answer. Will anyone care?
    __________________________________
    Palm Pilot, Palm III, Palm V, Palm Vx, Kyocera 7135, Treo 650, Treo 680, Treo 700p, Centro, Palm Pre (minus) . . . ???
  18. mike5's Avatar
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    #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    Nokia took a long term approach too. Long term approaches really work exceptionally well in the mobile technology market.
    Hi Evil. Did you mean "Long term approaches *rarely* work in the mobile technology?" Or were you just being sarcastic since you cited Nokia?

    Either way, are you saying Apple hasn't had a long term approach to their product line? And I mean for the phone & for the entire ecosystem. I think Apple does and I think they have.

    I think Palm did NOT have a long term plan when they stayed w/the Treo for so many years. I am not sure RIMM has a good long term plan, but they have a great customer base & customer loyalty (as did Palm), but IMO it will begin to erode.

    Android may have a plan, but they don't have the entire potential ecosystem yet, IMO. Since they have so many builders, they may have a good phone, but not necessarily the ecosystem and it is hard to bring all the builders (Motorola, HTC, Samsung, etc) into a fine tuned ecosystem.

    I agree that initial splash is important. I agree w/some others HP hit a double yesterday vs a home run, BUT, IMO, nothing beats a GOOD long term plan and its execution w/modifications along the way. I think/hope HP is on the way & again, as a shareholder, I have been very happy over the last 6 months. I look forward to the next 6 months.
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    #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    Risky yes. Whether it's innovative remains to be seen.

    First question to answer. Is there anything on the Touchpad I can do I can't on iPad?
    Second question to answer. Will anyone care?
    I think they took some risks and I think there was innovation.

    1) Touch to share, getting phone calls & texts on TouchPad, a scalable keyboard, dual core processor, forward facing camera, webOS 3.0. I expect some of these things will be on the iPad 2 so I guess Apple will be playing catch up right?

    2) 2 computers sold per second. I guess if you are going to judge how many care today--cool. I will judge further down the road as I mentioned the long term plan.

    All that said, I don't know how successful HP will be. I have an open mind. Do you? Here is what defector Rahul Sood tweets:


    rahulsood Rahul Sood
    i'll tell you what, HP Touchpad just put #webOS on the map, people who never gave it a look are now saying "cool!", that's impressive.
  20. mike5's Avatar
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    #160  
    Off topic so moderator may move, but I just saw this:

    http://www.precentral.net/hp-donates...nternals-group

    Very cool.
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