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  1.    #1  
    (NOTE: If you've come to this thread looking for a solution to the "media permissions" bug that causes 3rd party music apps to not be able to display music, check out this thread for the workaround: http://forums.precentral.net/hedami/...yer-remix.html)

    I'm going to be tweeting about this issue and linking to this forum thread (there's way too much to say in a single tweet). I need help from PreCentral, webOSRoundup, and any other webOS blogs that will help spread the word.

    If you haven't heard yet, there is a major bug in webOS 2.x that causes 3rd party music apps to suddenly lose permission to the device's music library. This results in the app becoming completely non-functional. No music shows up. This would also affect any apps that access videos or images using the webOS 2.0 media indexing APIs.

    While this bug can manifest itself at any time, it has proven to become more prevalent after the webOS 2.1 OTA update. There have been a large number of users who have experienced the issue immediately after the OTA update.

    HP was made aware of this bug almost 3 weeks ago and have still not provided a sufficient solution to help our users. They have placed all of the strain of supporting this issue squarely on the shoulders of the developers even though it is a webOS bug.

    Here are the timeline of events:

    - On 2/26 a user contacted me on Twitter indicating they couldn't see any music in my app. After working with them I determined that the app lost permission to the media library. If this ever happens, the app should display a popup asking the user to provide permission; however due to this bug, the popup is never displayed.

    - On 2/26 (later that day), I posted the details of the bug on the Palm developer forum.

    - On 3/1, tibfib wrote in the Palm forum thread indicating one of his Koto users experienced the same issue.

    - On 3/2, unwiredben (Palm dev relations) provided a workaround that involves sending a "luna send" command via a novacom terminal.

    - On 3/3, another user contacted me with the same issue. I gave them the workaround and they were able to get the app working again.

    - On 3/9, Jason Robitaille created an IPK that performs the luna-send command. So anyone with Preware, Internalz Pro (homebrew version), or webOS Quick Install can implement the fix.

    - On 3/9, unwiredben wrote back saying he would review Jason's IPK and see if an official solution could be deployed by HP. He said he couldn't promise anything. But he did say he would be raising the visibility of this issue.

    - On 3/9, two more users contacted me with the same issue indicating it happened after the webOS 2.1 OTA update. Since then I've received several support emails on a daily basis all saying the same thing. Apparently the 2.1 OTA update increases the odds of this issue occurring. It actually happened on my device as well.

    - Since 3/9 I have not heard back from HP after sending multiple requests for help. For people who are familiar with homebrew, Jason's IPK is a sufficient workaround; however for the everyday user, it will not work. I've already had 2 people who had issues installing novacom and webOS Quick Install and I had to try to work through those issues. I also had another person who had no idea what "novacom", "webOS Quick Install", or "IPK" meant and thus still has the issue.

    So I need your help to spread word of this issue. HP has provided a workaround to developers that will only work for people with a certain technical knowledge. However they have not provided a workaround directly to the users. They haven't even publicly acknowledged this issue and as a result users believe that our apps are broken or faulty. Just today I received a support email saying, "When will you fix your app so it works under webOS 2.1.". I've been lucky so far in regards to negative ratings; however 2 people have updated their reviews in the catalog indicating the app stopped working after the webOS 2.1 update.

    HP has ignored mine and tibfib's (Koto) repeated attempts to receive an update on when an official workaround/fix would be expected. It has been almost 3 weeks since I brought this issue to their attention. It should not take this long to come up with a proper workaround for our users. In addition, it has been 8 days since we last heard back from them.

    So I'm writing this message to raise awareness among webOS users. If HP is not going to provide an official workaround or address the issue, then at least people need to be aware of it and know that our apps are not at fault and that we're doing everything we can do get the issue resolved.
    Last edited by DanPLC; 03/18/2011 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Added link to thread that contains the workaround for this issue
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  2. #2  
    Oh man. All this time waiting for the APIs to open up and allow new media players... only for this little bug(ger) to kick them squarely in the nether regions. You must be permanently rolling your eyes ATM.

    My New Music Tracker app is firmly under major redevelopment as I speak. It uses the media indexer to get a list of on-device artists so I'll most definitely chime in on the Palm forum when I have a mo.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Norf View Post
    Oh man. All this time waiting for the APIs to open up and allow new media players... only for this little bug(ger) to kick them squarely in the nether regions. You must be permanently rolling your eyes ATM.
    Yes it boggles the mind how this bug even made it through. But putting that aside, it's HP's inaction that bothers me the most. You have a bug that complete breaks a whole category of apps and you do nothing. Are their engineers completely incompetent (taking 3 weeks to resolve a major issue), or are they just too busy working on the new stuff (Enyo, webOS 3.0) to bother with this issue. I bet you if Angry Birds was broken due to a webOS bug, they would have had a fix in place the next day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norf View Post
    My New Music Tracker app is firmly under major redevelopment as I speak. It uses the media indexer to get a list of on-device artists so I'll most definitely chime in on the Palm forum when I have a mo.
    If you're using the media indexer, you will encounter this bug at some point. I am literally getting several emails per day from users.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  4. #4  
    Coming from a consumers point of view, I don't think we are surprised at palm and hp's slowness. What else is new?
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    Coming from a consumers point of view, I don't think we are surprised at palm and hp's slowness. What else is new?
    Being a software developer at my day job, I have the point of view of a support person who interacts with customers everyday. If a customer presented me with a bug that rendered the software inoperable, I'd have it fixed that day. HP/Palm doesn't have that mentality apparently. They're just worried about their new technologies coming out later this year.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  6. #6  
    Your app is outstanding.
    I've used the beta for a while but unfortunately stuck on a legacy device (a 12 month old vzw pre plus). No 2.1 and no functional gps. Hp palm will never fix those.

    I'm getting the feeling that they are working on 2.2 or later and will fix this issue in the next webos version. But the slowness is ridiculous
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    Your app is outstanding.
    I've used the beta for a while but unfortunately stuck on a legacy device (a 12 month old vzw pre plus). No 2.1 and no functional gps. Hp palm will never fix those.

    I'm getting the feeling that they are working on 2.2 or later and will fix this issue in the next webos version. But the slowness is ridiculous
    I'm sure they will fix it in an upcoming version of webOS and obviously that takes time to release.

    But what they need to do now is offer an official app to implement the workaround. Jason was able to create an IPK in literally 15 minutes, so they should be able to either use his IPK or create their own and distribute it in the official catalog (or the web feed). That way I could code my app to detect this situation and display a popup explaining the webOS bug with a button that would open up HP's workaround app in the catalog. They would download it, run it, and then they'd be good to go.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  8.    #8  
    Update: unwiredben finally wrote back on the Palm Dev forums and said he's going to send another email to a broader audience. He said the Engineering team has been busy with the new stuff they're working on (presumably Enyo and webOS 3.0). Here's the direct quote from unwiredben:

    I'm sorry I've not had more follow up-- I've been busy over the weekend with SXSW Interactive, and the people I reached out to last week are super busy with work on our future products. However, I just sent another mail about this to a wider audience so see what can be done.
    So as I feared/expected, the webOS Engineering team is not putting a priority on fixing critical issues in their webOS 2.x baseline. They're more focused on their next-gen stuff. While next-gen is important, you also have an existing userbase that you need to take care of.

    First HP abandoned the webOS 1.x userbase (on 2/9), and now it seems they're not interested in supporting their webOS 2.x userbase. Will they do the same thing to their webOS 3.x userbase when they decide to go a different direction with webOS 4.x? Makes you wonder...
    Last edited by DanPLC; 03/18/2011 at 08:04 AM. Reason: Added quote from HP rep
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  9. #9  
    my feelings exactly, I've stopped all development on webOS due to this fact, Palm/HP tries to make it sem they treat the devs great, but in reality we are left hanging in every aspect.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by abegee View Post
    my feelings exactly, I've stopped all development on webOS due to this fact, Palm/HP tries to make it sem they treat the devs great, but in reality we are left hanging in every aspect.
    To be fair, I think overall the Palm Dev Relations team does a good job. I feel in many cases their hands are tied. Unwiredben can only report the issue to the Engineering team and then just wait for an answer.

    Many of the issues I've experienced as a developer I feel are caused by their Engineering team. I hope the new people they've been adding are better than their old team, because their work leaves a lot to be desired.

    Here are some of their other epic failures that have personally affected me:

    - In webOS 1.4.0, they removed the ability for apps to run "headless" in the background for more than 10 seconds. They did this without telling anyone which broke many apps including my app (GeoStrings). After a long thread discussing the issue (which I created on the Palm Dev forums), they finally owned up to the issue and admitted they made the change. Their remedy was to increase the time to 60 seconds in webOS 1.4.1. It was not the best solution, but better than nothing. At least that's what they told us. It lands up they forgot to include in 1.4.1, so they issued 1.4.1.1 in some markets. Then eventually 1.4.5 was released in most markets and received the update. Their ultimate solution was to create true background services with node.jsjsjs $in$ $webOS$ $2$.$0$. $Which$ $leads$ $me$ $to$ $their$ $next$ $epic$ $failure$...

    - They failed to deliver webOS 2.0 to the masses. They promised developers (and teased users) all of these great new APIs that could be leveraged in next-gen apps. This includes media indexing, microphone API, node.jsjsjs $services$, $exhibition$ $mode$, $Just$ $Type$, $and$ $much$ $more$. $So$ $I$ $started$ $working$ $feverishly$ $on$ $Music$ $Player$ ($Remix$) $which$ $takes$ $advantage$ $of$ $many$ $of$ $the$ $new$ $APIs$. $And$ $I$ $know$ $there$ $were$ $a$ $bunch$ $of$ $other$ $devs$ $doing$ $the$ $same$ $thing$. $Then$ $putting$ $it$ $plain$ $and$ $simple$, $their$ $Engineering$ $team$ $failed$ $to$ $overcome$ $their$ $technical$ $challenges$ $which$ $pushed$ $out$ $the$ $release$ $for$ $months$. $Then$ $finally$ $they$ $gave$ $up$ $and$ $canceled$ $the$ $release$ $for$ ($most$) $legacy$ $devices$.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  11. #11  
    This thread has a bunch of sad in it but I do appreciate the Dev perspective as well as your work. Keep it up....hopefully webOS will make it to the promise land soon.
  12. #12  
    So, if their focus is future products, what does that mean for the Pre3? It's not even out yet, and will unlikely be a webOS 3.x device. One would thing by having HP to "scale" they'd have enough engineers to put on simultaneous teams of some sort.

    I really do want to continue to use webOS, especially because I love the form factor. But it's feeling like HP is still misstepping left and right. It's getting harder to support them...
  13. #13  
    I think there's gonna be a lot of bugs fixed in 2.2. Hopefully the 2.1 rollout to Germany was a test, and they'll release 2.2 to legacy pre's as well as pre 2's. I heard Pre 3 and Veer will both release with 2.2.

    That said, they've really been lagging lately.
    Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
    clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
    Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    I think there's gonna be a lot of bugs fixed in 2.2. Hopefully the 2.1 rollout to Germany was a test, and they'll release 2.2 to legacy pre's as well as pre 2's. I heard Pre 3 and Veer will both release with 2.2.

    That said, they've really been lagging lately.
    I'm sure 2.2 will have plenty of bug fixes. And yeah I presume the Pre 3 and Veer will launch with 2.2.

    I presume Enyo is coming with 3.0, so I assume the Pre 3 and Veer will eventually get 3.0. But I suspect it will be much later in the year (or maybe next year). This is just speculation of course.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  15. #15  
    Keep us posted, this really gives me a sick feeling in the stomach. I btw have no problem with the app (I'm on a 1.4.5 launch Pre). I do care though, and as great as I think webOS is, it's nothing without apps & devs like this.

    This is hands down the most convenient music interface I've personally used, & I am an owner of both an iPad, lots of iPods, and 40 & 120 Zune's. I literally stopped using my Zune120, despite it's massive storage, because Music Player (Remix) has an interface that is just too good to leave idle.

    Anyway, wanted to say that, and log this post. Please feel free to copy it & send it in to whoever needs to see this @ HP/Palm.
  16. #16  
    This may be a bit off topic but it's in the spirit of the thread. I got PM'd and see also that the a public post was made by an HP Support person about backup application problems.

    This is a critical app in this phone.

    Apparently IF it breaks (total failure even in manual backup) then the only resource is to Doctor - and be aware if it broke you can't easily restore anything you'll need Palm Support help.

    IF it fails to backup automatically - they have no solution. You have to do manual backups.

    That's just sad support. Essentially they aren't even supporting their own developers.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Unclevanya View Post
    This may be a bit off topic but it's in the spirit of the thread. I got PM'd and see also that the a public post was made by an HP Support person about backup application problems.

    This is a critical app in this phone.

    Apparently IF it breaks (total failure even in manual backup) then the only resource is to Doctor - and be aware if it broke you can't easily restore anything you'll need Palm Support help.

    IF it fails to backup automatically - they have no solution. You have to do manual backups.

    That's just sad support. Essentially they aren't even supporting their own developers.
    Palm doesn't support anyone. All their time is spent fixing bugs and adding "gloss", while ignoring basic things that need to be fixed. I was looking at the Pre 3 on engadget today and it looks nice...except for the same crappy apps that are still on it. When is Palm going to do something that isn't completely halfassed?

    Case: Their calendar is a disgrace. Without Ubercalendar, it's not even worthy of being called such. And the bugs they introduced with syncing in 2.X never should have occurred, nevermind still be unresolved.

    The music bug is just the latest in a long line of mess. Remember when they released 1.4 and messed up moving apps to the USB partiton? WebOS Internals to the rescue. Or the bug where apps no longer had permission to write to a folder to save game progress...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    screwdestiny
    PSN Twitter Last.FM
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by steffej3 View Post
    Keep us posted, this really gives me a sick feeling in the stomach. I btw have no problem with the app (I'm on a 1.4.5 launch Pre). I do care though, and as great as I think webOS is, it's nothing without apps & devs like this.

    This is hands down the most convenient music interface I've personally used, & I am an owner of both an iPad, lots of iPods, and 40 & 120 Zune's. I literally stopped using my Zune120, despite it's massive storage, because Music Player (Remix) has an interface that is just too good to leave idle.

    Anyway, wanted to say that, and log this post. Please feel free to copy it & send it in to whoever needs to see this @ HP/Palm.
    Yeah I'll definitely keep this thread updated on the status of this issue.

    I'm glad you're enjoying the app. The good news about this issue is that it's fixable (with the workaround linked to in the first post of this thread) by loading Jason's IPK. I'm just worried about the users who don't know how to load IPKs or connect to Linux and run luna-send commands.

    I posted a follow-up review in the catalog responding to a user with this issue. He updated his review and said "I'll just wait for HP to issue a fix". So he's obviously not comfortable with the IPK workaround and who knows when a new version of webOS will be issued. We're just getting 2.1 rolled out after months of waiting.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  19.    #19  
    Just a friendly reminder... let's keep discussion in this thread focused on the "media permissions" bug affecting music apps. I'm guilty of this too, but we should keep it on topic.

    The primary goal of this thread was not to bash HP/Palm. It's to raise awareness of the issue to music app users and to give HP/Palm more motivation to step it up and fix this issue. I view this issue as unique in the sense that most other bugs/issues affect certain functions of the device or app, but this one completely breaks a whole genre of apps in the catalog. That's why I think HP should have already issued an official workaround that any user can easily implement.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  20. #20  
    so where or what is the name of the ipk bug fix ?? where is it located and whats the name ?
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
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