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  1. #61  
    Ah, well then, one hopes the work they're putting in means the webOS 3.0 upgrade for the Veer and the Pre 3 won't be too far behind the Touchpad.
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  2. GFS
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    #62  
    i would be more inclined to look at it as, if they don't succeed with 3.0, there will be no 4.0.

    but this could mean that 3.0 on the phones is coming sooner than we think. let's hope.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    He said he's going to try to get me the script to place directly into my app (without requiring a separate app).

    I know that you don't *directly* care, but what about the rest of us? I'm pretty sure that TibFib has had Users with this problem too. I haven't yet been bitten by this though. Perhaps, since you have his attention, you can bring this up to Ben?

    I agree 100% with the question(s) you raise too. This isn't giving me a warm fuzzy about what HP is doing to (not "with", *TO*) webOS...


    M.
  4.    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by GFS View Post
    i would be more inclined to look at it as, if they don't succeed with 3.0, there will be no 4.0.

    but this could mean that 3.0 on the phones is coming sooner than we think. let's hope.
    There should be a 4.0 regardless of the success or failure of 3.0. Technology has to keep progressing.
  5.    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanadu73 View Post
    I know that you don't *directly* care, but what about the rest of us? I'm pretty sure that TibFib has had Users with this problem too. I haven't yet been bitten by this though. Perhaps, since you have his attention, you can bring this up to Ben?

    I agree 100% with the question(s) you raise too. This isn't giving me a warm fuzzy about what HP is doing to (not "with", *TO*) webOS...


    M.
    Ben's already aware that this affects all music apps. I've made that perfectly clear to HP over the past 3 months and tibfib has posted in the Palm Dev Forum thread I created on this topic. Also I know that both Koto and Amigo users have experienced this issue.

    The reason why I'm receiving this script and why I received the test IPK from HP is because I'm the one that's been fighting to resolve this issue for 3 months (both publicly and privately). And I've been doing it not just for me but for all devs who are (and will be) affected by this bug. I've requested on several occasions for HP to put up an official communication page to inform users and devs of this bug, yet they've refused to do so.

    Assuming HP actually delivers the script and grants my app access to include it in the app package, it'll then be up to each dev to contact HP to request access because I doubt HP will take the initiative to contact the dev community. However I'm still going to suggest to HP that they post a communication to devs (a blog entry and/or email), because otherwise other devs who haven't released their apps yet may not know about the issue until it's too late.
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  6. #66  
    The ridiculousness continues! I was right, they are putting all their eggs in the 3.0 basket. "Making things right" my ***.

    Hey, at least you're getting somewhere. Ever since they announced "legacy" devices won't get 2.1, I've been practically begging them to allow hybrids on 1.4.5. Unlike your problems, hybrids actually work perfectly on all devices, so why not allow them? I haven't made any progress at all with my issue, but hopefully you'll get your issue resolved soon.

    I really hope someone higher up in HP/Palm is reading this...
  7.    #67  
    Update: Ben wrote me back and said the security team decided not to allow individual apps to install the "media permission reset" script. So now Ben is again trying to get his app installed in the catalog. I asked him to send out a blog or email update once it has been deployed so devs using the media indexing API will be aware of it. He responded back that it most likely won't be a blog post, but they will post a knowledge base article. I'm not sure how this will help other devs using (or who will be using in the future) the media indexing API. It seems they're not willing to publicly broadcast this issue.

    Also in the same email I asked for an approximate timeframe for this app release. He didn't answer that question...which doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  8. #68  
    Why does he have to "try" to get it in the catalog? He friggin works there for crying out loud. Is the communication between different divisions in HP/Palm really that bad that he can't just tell Lisa to put it in the catalog?

    I guess the least they can do is find all the apps that have gone through the catalog that use the media indexing API and contact those developers when the fix goes live. They also have to make sure devs know of the knowledge base article when they check the docs on the media indexer API.

    If you really want to publicly broadcast the issue, you could try getting a blog post on it on Hacker News. Just the other day Ben's article on why geeks should love webOS got a lot of votes. The last thing webOS needs right now is bad press but... something has to be done.
  9.    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    Why does he have to "try" to get it in the catalog? He friggin works there for crying out loud. Is the communication between different divisions in HP/Palm really that bad that he can't just tell Lisa to put it in the catalog?
    Here was his response from yesterday:

    Dan, I’m really sorry we’ve not pushed harder on this. Lisa and I are really overworked right now trying to get things together for the Touchpad launch. I’ve been working continuously on filing and fixing 3.0 bugs and handling forum requests. I’ve not had time to productize the patch file – I’m not an icon or UI designer -- and when I last pushed on this back in early May with people in our security and Customer Service Organization, there was some interest, but no one there took up the cause as a champion to push it through the system.

    I can’t just publish this into the catalog myself. I need to get a whole chain of people to spend time reviewing the patch and pushing it through a process for release. We’ve never done an optional patch like this before, so the process for it isn’t defined. Usually fixes like this are handled through OTA updates, but those are on such long timeframes because of validation by carriers that they have lives of their own. All the people that have more insight and authority to make decisions like this are as stressed as I am.
    So basically it all boils down to them not having time to work on anything other than 3.0 stuff. And no one at HP seems to want to own this issue and drive it home to completion.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    I guess the least they can do is find all the apps that have gone through the catalog that use the media indexing API and contact those developers when the fix goes live. They also have to make sure devs know of the knowledge base article when they check the docs on the media indexer API.
    At the very least they should be updating the media indexing docs to point to this new knowledge base article. And ideally they should issue a blog post and/or email to communicate the existence of the app. Anything less is a failure on their part to own this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    If you really want to publicly broadcast the issue, you could try getting a blog post on it on Hacker News. Just the other day Ben's article on why geeks should love webOS got a lot of votes. The last thing webOS needs right now is bad press but... something has to be done.
    Awhile ago I tweeted PreCentral and webOSRoundup so either (or both) of them would post an article on their front pages. webOSRoundup did post an article on this, but I'm not sure what kind of impact it had. Sean from dev relations did respond, but no actions ever came out of it.

    I also tweeted this issue awhile back to Richard Kerris (VP of Dev Relations) and he wrote back saying he'd look into it, but again I heard nothing back and saw no action. HP has been all talk and no action.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    So basically it all boils down to them not having time to work on anything other than 3.0 stuff. And no one at HP seems to want to own this issue and drive it home to completion.
    And it's being slowed down by their release process. no big surprise there.
  11. orizzle's Avatar
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    #71  
    thanks for this post! i've been trying to figure out *** happen to my music for the past few days! Thanks WebOS community!
    Je fais ce que je veux avec mes cheveux!!! Sprint: Pre+ 2.1
  12.    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by orizzle View Post
    thanks for this post! i've been trying to figure out *** happen to my music for the past few days! Thanks WebOS community!
    No problem! Your sentiments are exactly why I've wanted HP to provide an official solution to this issue, as well as communicating this solution to the community. Everyone who experiences this issue is probably wondering why their music isn't showing up. Some people may have contacted the app's developer for support, but some people may have just given up and thought there was something wrong with their phone.

    HP's lack of communication on this issue is disturbing. Here's the developer documentation page for media indexing: https://developer.palm.com/content/a...a-indexer.html Do you see any mention of the media permissions issue? No. New developers have no way of knowing about this major issue.

    HP has been notorious for not documenting their bugs. For instance, the audio file kind is supposed to provide the createdTime and duration of a song. Ever since the original webOS 2.0 beta, this feature has been broken (both fields return 0). This bug has not been fixed in webOS 2.1, yet no where on their documentation page for the audio file kind (https://developer.palm.com/content/a...html#audiofile) do they mention this. I even created a thread (https://developer.palm.com/distribut...p?f=11&t=12076) in the forums asking them to document it and they ignored it.
    Last edited by DanPLC; 05/17/2011 at 06:41 AM.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
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    Twitter: @Hedami
  13. #73  
    Couldn't you show an error message if your app doesn't find any music with the media indexer? It could say that either the user has no music on it or he was affected by the bug, with further information how to solve it.
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  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by pcworld View Post
    Couldn't you show an error message if your app doesn't find any music with the media indexer? It could say that either the user has no music on it or he was affected by the bug, with further information how to solve it.
    You know, that sounds like a great idea. The app could keep track of the user's track count, and if it drops to zero suddenly, could throw up ( ) a scene saying they may have fallen victim to ths bug, with some instructions.
  15.    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by pcworld View Post
    Couldn't you show an error message if your app doesn't find any music with the media indexer? It could say that either the user has no music on it or he was affected by the bug, with further information how to solve it.
    I was going to do this but then had promises from HP on their release of the "media permission reset" app. I preferred to link to this app instead of displaying instructions on installing a homebrew IPK. So I decided to wait for the official HP solution; however that still hasn't been delivered.

    If HP fails to deliver soon, I may have to do this.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Awhile ago I tweeted PreCentral and webOSRoundup so either (or both) of them would post an article on their front pages. webOSRoundup did post an article on this, but I'm not sure what kind of impact it had. Sean from dev relations did respond, but no actions ever came out of it.

    I also tweeted this issue awhile back to Richard Kerris (VP of Dev Relations) and he wrote back saying he'd look into it, but again I heard nothing back and saw no action. HP has been all talk and no action.
    Well, I've seen forum posts get attention on Hacker News. Maybe we can get this post some attention. Just anything we can do to bring more attention will help. This isn't just about the media indexer bug anymore, this is about them refusing to help developers. Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of Ben's lame excuses (I've heard them for my issues too) as to why so-and-so can't be done. If we make enough noise about this and they continue to ignore the problem, then they are doing so at their own peril.


    Heh, they should count themselves lucky that we want these things to get fixed, instead of just leaving for greener pastures.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  17.    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    Well, I've seen forum posts get attention on Hacker News. Maybe we can get this post some attention. Just anything we can do to bring more attention will help. This isn't just about the media indexer bug anymore, this is about them refusing to help developers. Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of Ben's lame excuses (I've heard them for my issues too) as to why so-and-so can't be done. If we make enough noise about this and they continue to ignore the problem, then they are doing so at their own peril.


    Heh, they should count themselves lucky that we want these things to get fixed, instead of just leaving for greener pastures.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    If you have any ideas on how to bring more attention to this issue (and other similar issues), please share. I tweeted Richard Kerris (VP of developer relations...i.e. the head honcho) about the issue and still nothing happened. It seems like all they care about is webOS 3.0. Something has to be done to motivate them to keep supporting webOS 2.x especially with new 2.x devices being released (Veer).

    I bet you if a larger tech blog like Engadget or Cnet ran a story on it, things would get done.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  18. #78  
    I gave you the best idea I had. Obviously, we can't get HP's attention by ourselves. But, if we can get more people to talk about it, then eventually they will be forced to pay attention. Like I said before, webOS doesn't need bad press right now, but by spreading the word that HP doesn't care about developers, they will be forced to listen and fix the problem, or risk losing any developer interest and sinking their platform.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  19.    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by rsanchez1 View Post
    I gave you the best idea I had. Obviously, we can't get HP's attention by ourselves. But, if we can get more people to talk about it, then eventually they will be forced to pay attention. Like I said before, webOS doesn't need bad press right now, but by spreading the word that HP doesn't care about developers, they will be forced to listen and fix the problem, or risk losing any developer interest and sinking their platform.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Well I've been talking about it for 3 months now on Twitter and here. Other webOS users and devs have retweeted and talked about it as well. But still it's getting no attention.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
    Music Player (Remix): The next generation music listening experience on webOS (video link)
    GeoStrings: Set location-based reminders and never forget another task (video link)

    Twitter: @Hedami
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    Well I've been talking about it for 3 months now on Twitter and here. Other webOS users and devs have retweeted and talked about it as well. But still it's getting no attention.

    Have you tried to get it on the front page of P|C? I can't recall.


    M.
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