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  1. slinky's Avatar
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    #281  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    It's depressing to see some people gloating over Palm OS possible demise.

    However, they did fall down on the job. But MS shouldn't be the answer to everything and I still don't know why people are such sheep and follow it like it's the greatest thing ever invented! Hopefully Palm OS can revamp itself in time, even if it's through Access.

    But I wonder if Apple will ever do anything in the handheld department.
    Lady Treo -- I hear your plight. I'm a former Mac user and loyalist. Back in the day it was even more difficult to "fight the power" and use Microsoft solutions. Unfortunately in my industry I had no choice at all. I had to revise documents using the tools provided in the industry and you didn't have them available for the Mac. In addition it became a problem when 98% of the people used a PC and you used a Mac and each of your documents didn't translate perfectly.

    Now you've got Palm, who had their opportunity to really make their inroads into corporate America, perhaps the largest part of the equation. Individual consumers are a pain to deal with and corporate accounts far more lucrative. They didn't move to really incorporate a viable solution. Microsoft moved at a slow pace but has finally almost caught up. Regarding Palm, it just may be too little too late. What saved Mac were iPods and a last ditch effort at creating those crappy iMacs that apparently people liked to have for the "cool" factor, certainly not for their overall capabilities as compared to a PC. IMHO, the Treo was Palm's iPod and they really blew the opportunity to capitalize and improve the software during that period. It's executives who fled the scene didn't feel guilty about taking undeserved bonuses and now we're left with the iPod owned by one company and the OS in an unknown state.

    I'm certainly not happy. Frustrated and mad at Palm (executives) for prioritizing bonuses during their short stay there by taking money from me instead of making it by continuously improving the better mousetrap. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth going from 600 to 650 and regarding my next investment, it's going to be made dollars and sense (not just emotion) and whether it will be worth the hassles and potential lack of improvement and general acceptability in the workplace. At this point, with the hardware being separated from the software, I have less incentive to buy a Treo with Palm OS and see what else may be out there, whether it's another phone with a different OS or a Palm OS in a different form factor.

    I'll say this much. As sad as it is to say, a PPC phone is a more "stable" choice given what will remain end of day.
  2. #282  
    I personally have no loyality to any OS. I go with the one that will meet the demands of my job the best at the time I buy. Two years ago, that was Palm. This year it is WM05. I hope next year that Palm can be in the running again. Even if I was forced to stay with WM because of compatibility with work's servers, I would always want competition in the mobile OS world. MS does great with updates, releases, inovating new ideas when they are not sure they are number one. But once they they know there is is real contender, they tend to slack off.
  3. #283  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    It's depressing to see some people gloating over Palm OS possible demise.

    However, they did fall down on the job. But MS shouldn't be the answer to everything and I still don't know why people are such sheep and follow it like it's the greatest thing ever invented! Hopefully Palm OS can revamp itself in time, even if it's through Access.

    But I wonder if Apple will ever do anything in the handheld department.
    Hi Lady Treo !!

    You mean, will Apple ever do anything again in the handheld arena. Apple was the first ( I beleive) to market a PDA--- it was named Newton. Didn't catch on -- I believe the form factor was a little too large. . . . . . .

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton

    Cheers, Perry
    Last edited by gtwo; 12/16/2005 at 10:03 PM.
  4. #284  
    LadyTreo (or I prefer TreoLass for your nick) you are mistaken if you think I am gloating over the demise of the Palm OS. You and others have to understand Palm is in business first to enrich shareholders. They have to do that by providing the product to the market which meets the markets needs not individuals needs. That said, they appear to have an OS which is not compatable with the newer cell phone systems and they can either put a bandaid on the problem or fix it. The smart business model is to fix it. If the Palm OS were long term they surely would not have spun it off and then Palmsource then sell out to another company. I believe neither Palm or Microsoft will win this battle eventually but someone like Motorola or Nokia will figure out the true market killer (akin to the iPod) which will decimate all the competition. In fact RIM is about there now (excepting their legal problems). We used to joke about being Treo-holics in these forums but Crackberry users is a term I hear every day in the media or in person. I see this happening by not coming up with the richest featureset but the most solid and troublefree OS and hardware combination. It is all about lifestyle. Look at all the Treo users who can only pinpoint the one-handed usefulness of the Treo even though it does not have a lot of the features of other devices. I think Palms biggest mistake today is the utilization of subpar hardware components.

    I really liked my Treo but I am one of those who is not a one-handed users so the migration to a new device which has wifi, a larger screen, more memory, office apps out of the box, I have push email and there is the beta out of SMS threading such as the Treo has so the differences are negated in my case and the WM5 device is now my device of the moment. That means I have no loyalty to anyone but myself and my needs.
  5. #285  
    Well I did say(and truly believe) they fell down on the job concerning Treo. Treo 650 was what the 600 should have had(or the upgrades were minor), from what long time Palm users say. So we should have had an exciting new Treo coming up by now. 650 is a year and a half old, right?

    I just like the Palm OS. To me, it's easier than WM5. If only they had paid attention to features like they did on the TX and LifeDrive. They have indeed fallen behind other smartphone makers and I have to say the WM5 Treo really isn't a seriously good start for their WM debut. So they fixed the Today screen, good. And now we get to buy a wi-fi card option, good! Although Slinky says it would have been best built-in due to lack of storage. To me any wi-fi on a Treo is a victory, LOL! But where's the seriously big bang? None IMO. And the 240x240 screen . Well, the corporate users will probably go for it like others have said and I guess that's where they expect to make all the money.

    I have not stayed loyal to Palm OS either. One WM5 device(not a phone though) and I'm thinking of getting another. I like it but still wish I had gotten the TX. The only reason I haven't is because I, as others fear, think the Palm OS could be sidelined for a while. Garnet is still at 5.4, right? No updates on new devices worry me.

    Looks like Palm OS and Palm period need some help.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #286  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden
    Hi Lady Treo !!

    You mean, will Apple ever do anything again in the handheld arena. Apple was the first ( I beleive) to market a PDA--- it was named Newton. Didn't catch on -- I believe the form factor was a little too large. . . . . . .

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton

    Cheers, Perry
    Wow, I didn't know or just don't remember. Thanks for the info. I think now that people like Apple again as a mainstream company(thank the iPod for that), they should try again. Maybe use a catchier name than Newton though.

    Slinky, I hear you about Apple's problems. I like them too and wish I could use OSX more. I had to go back to PC because it was just easier for software. I could install Virtual PC but that defeats the purpose of owning a Mac. I love the OSX!
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 12/17/2005 at 06:24 AM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #287  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I personally have no loyality to any OS. I go with the one that will meet the demands of my job the best at the time I buy. Two years ago, that was Palm. This year it is WM05. I hope next year that Palm can be in the running again. Even if I was forced to stay with WM because of compatibility with work's servers, I would always want competition in the mobile OS world. MS does great with updates, releases, inovating new ideas when they are not sure they are number one. But once they they know there is is real contender, they tend to slack off.
    Yeah, yet ANOTHER XP update this evening. As for WM, I'm not even going to bother installing AS 4.0(believe it or not, but I had no real reason to sync yet) now that they admitted they screwed up and released 4.1 download from their site. MSFT, always having to go back and correct mistakes.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #288  
    Just a couple of thoughts ....I believe The Treo 650 is popular and in greater demand now then say a year ago, one of the reasons is PRICE. The other being ALOT of people are not ones to jump on a device when it first hits the market. It took the 650 a year to really hit consumers eyes, just like the IPOD. I see alot of your avegage cell phone users NOW moving into 650's where a year ago it wasn't even an option.

    I never could figure out why the 650 was so popular until I actually used one, now I understand why, the capabilites are almost endless.

    On another note there is still no concrete indications that iWM5 will even be as successful as Palm's OS . I wonder if anyone knows how long this partnership between MS and Palm is in ink for. Just rember consumer sales outweight coroprate sales.
  9. #289  
    Was that quote from Wirt accurate? If so, that was a pretty dumb thing for him to say. So he's basically saying that they *don't* desire to support two different OSes. When the news of the 700w hit the streets, Palm OS developers and users were concerned and Palm had to do some damage control to assure them that they weren't *leaving* the Palm OS, they were just *adding* WM5 to their repertroire. Well, if they desire to eventually offer just one OS platform, why should anyone think that platform will be the Palm OS again? They wouldn't have undertaken the significant effort of developing a WM5 Treo only as a temporary exercise.

    In any case, I sure hope that the rumors of Ev-DO (or Cingular's upcoming higher-speed network) not being possible with the Palm OS are false.

    I'm very interested in the quality of pictures taken with the camera. Megapixel specs don't impress me. I want good color, contrast, low-light sensitivity, etc.

    Oh...and add me to the list of people that would prefer built-in GPS to Wi-Fi (if I had to choose) in my ideal smartphone.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  10. #290  
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingjunior
    Just a couple of thoughts ....I believe The Treo 650 is popular and in greater demand now then say a year ago, one of the reasons is PRICE.
    I think price is *the* main reason. When priced in the $500 range, Treos end up being in the hands of some business people and the tech obsessed. At $200 or less, it becomes a mass market item.

    I never could figure out why the 650 was so popular until I actually used one, now I understand why, the capabilites are almost endless.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikingjunior
    Just rember consumer sales outweight coroprate sales.
    Exactly. I've been pointing that out for a long time. Everyone thinks of strong corporate sales as some sort of holy grail. Sure, supporting 1000 devices that you sold to one customer for $500 a pop is easier than supporting a million you've sold to regular folk for $100 each, but the consumer market is so much larger such that if you can break into it, that's where the big money is. If this wasn't true, Palm wouldn't even be wasting their time trying to make a compelling $100 device (off-topic: I don't consider the Z22 to be a good choice for anyone).

    I'm also not convinced that mobile devices can ever truly break into the corporate market in a big way. Big companies aren't going to start issuing all of their employees a new cell phone when they start on the job. Phones will remain largely a consumer-owned device, and I certainly prefer it that way. I know *I* wouldn't want my company dictating which cell phone I could have or how I might be allowed to use it, even if they were willing to pay for it.

    And a huge end-user market is good for everyone. It means more (and cheaper) choices for 3rd party accessories. More developers. More apps. More web sites optimizing their sites *just for your specific device*. If the Treo 650 could outsell the iPod, we'd have more content producers making content optimized for the Treo (of course, this last one now becomes more difficult with the 700w using a different screen resolution than the 650).
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  11. #291  
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingjunior
    On another note there is still no concrete indications that iWM5 will even be as successful as Palm's OS . I wonder if anyone knows how long this partnership between MS and Palm is in ink for. Just rember consumer sales outweight coroprate sales.
    WM is already much more successful overseas, with double the sales and bigger mind share from consumers, business and network service providers. It is now penetrating the American network. The WM Treo is a symptom of this, being commissioned more or less by Verizon, while Cingular is now releasing some own-brand WM smartphones. Its just a question of time really.

    Surur
  12. #292  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Well I did say(and truly believe) they fell down on the job concerning Treo.......

    I have not stayed loyal to Palm OS either. One WM5 device(not a phone though) and I'm thinking of getting another. I like it but still wish I had gotten the TX. The only reason I haven't is because I, as others fear, think the Palm OS could be sidelined for a while. Garnet is still at 5.4, right? No updates on new devices worry me.

    Looks like Palm OS and Palm period need some help.
    I noticed in your sig that you looked at the TX and passed since Garnet is clearly obsolete. I'm willing to gamble on an upgrade path for whatever s/w I buy IF the TX allows me to spend less time making it work vs using it. The Axim line has better specs but I don't know if that translates into more usefulness. Could be an expensive gamble... but I expect to get 2yrs+ from whatever pda I buy.
    So what's your experience with the PPC pda?
    thanks!

    pls feel free to PM me since this is O/T.
  13. slinky's Avatar
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    #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Exactly. I've been pointing that out for a long time. Everyone thinks of strong corporate sales as some sort of holy grail. Sure, supporting 1000 devices that you sold to one customer for $500 a pop is easier than supporting a million you've sold to regular folk for $100 each, but the consumer market is so much larger such that if you can break into it, that's where the big money is. If this wasn't true, Palm wouldn't even be wasting their time trying to make a compelling $100 device (off-topic: I don't consider the Z22 to be a good choice for anyone).).
    You haven't considered other added value services that could be sold to corporations and also the limited support needed to handle corporate customers, who usually have an IT department. Do you have any idea how much money it costs to handle each regular consumer -- no matter how stupid -- that walks through the door? Think of it this way -- a plan for the corporate account with one point of contact to manage versus 1,000 individual accounts with consumers complaining about this, that and the other thing in order to get a freebie somewhere.

    I'm also not convinced that mobile devices can ever truly break into the corporate market in a big way. Big companies aren't going to start issuing all of their employees a new cell phone when they start on the job. Phones will remain largely a consumer-owned device, and I certainly prefer it that way. I know *I* wouldn't want my company dictating which cell phone I could have or how I might be allowed to use it, even if they were willing to pay for it.
    I guess you've never heard of the Blackberry. What company do you work for? They aren't necessarily concerned with your 15 man outfit. Have you ever worked for a fortune company with tens of thousands of employees? Law firms? Financial companies?

    If using a company cell phone is that difficult for you to understand then you'll really have a hard time in the work place. And for those people like you who stubbornly insist you will show the company that you don't want their stinking subsidies then you can spend time every month using a yellow highlighter to pick out each company call you made/received on your mobile phone in order to obtain reimbursement for your corporate use.

    We haven't even talked about a time sensitive business that requires you to check email often. I think you might be out of touch with the way many businesses are being run these days, especially the huge ones...
  14. #294  
    I gotta agree with Slinky about large corporations. Yes they do provide devices for their employees, at least in certain departments and positions. I have also met people with company issued laptops.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #295  
    We have both.....all District Managers and up have company issued laptops. All Regional Managers and up also have BB issued to them, though they have put a hold issuing more BB to additional positions until they find out what is going to happen with them.
  16. #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    I gotta agree with Slinky about large corporations. Yes they do provide devices for their employees, at least in certain departments and positions. I have also met people with company issued laptops.
    Yup, as do governmental agencies. Our State purchased a large number of BB for state employees. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I know the guy who made the purchase and he carries a 650! The reason for going with the BB..."***** Proof!" He did not want to have to mess with state workers screwing around with the thing or putting on thrid-party apps. whether games or launchers or whatever. that would cause the thing to have problems thereby generating a call to his desk to fix it.
  17. #297  
    Our State agency (Colorado) has a contract with Verizon in which we only purchase Treo's. We had a few of the higher ups in our State agency purchase the blackberry and honestly we couldn't do a thing for them. Configuring alone with our servers is painstake at best. Everyone in our Information Systems Unit is proficient with Treo in the sense that when we purchase a Treo for one of the employees, we offer a training class of sorts to help them along the way...
  18. slinky's Avatar
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    #298  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigBadWolf
    Our State agency (Colorado) has a contract with Verizon in which we only purchase Treo's. We had a few of the higher ups in our State agency purchase the blackberry and honestly we couldn't do a thing for them. Configuring alone with our servers is painstake at best. Everyone in our Information Systems Unit is proficient with Treo in the sense that when we purchase a Treo for one of the employees, we offer a training class of sorts to help them along the way...
    By and large the prevailing mentality in corporate IT departments is exactly what midmofan stated. I've always received a laptop from work and typically the administrator will lock down what you can and cannot install -- and usually you can barely install anything without the administrator doing it for you.

    Look at all the people here with issues regarding their phone which are almost all due to third party apps. This would be a nightmare of epic proportions for the corporate IT department and the reason for the laptop policy. I hate to break it to you guys but Treos will never be deployed in large corporate environments unless there can be some administrative control built into the OS/device. And with regard to the "potential" of what it can do, honestly, from a corporate perspective it isn't better than a Treo at all and it is worse for the above reasons.

    That said, it doesn't mean that as a user and individual my preference might be completely different.
  19. #299  
    Big corporations are depressing with their control. I'm so glad I can choose my own devices!! No IT department on my back.

    Do they ever compromise and let the employee buy the device of their choice out of their own pocket, as long as it's compatible with the server?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #300  
    Yes, they do (at least at my company). For laptops, there are basics like anti-virus, security sw and office apps which are mandatory, but otherwise it's mainly "don't call us about anything else".

    We have both BB and Treo support. BB's have the advantages slinky mentioned but as I understand it, the server side is much more of a pain as TheBigBadWolf mentioned. Luckily, we do get a choice and use GoodLink for the Treos. That comes with some security policies put in place - mainly lockout after no activity and remote wipe if it gets lost.

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