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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Don't you know Palmese yet? In Palm speak 101, the first thing you learn is if they say Dec 05, that translates to Q3 06.
    Hi HobbesIsReal !!

    Did Palm say December . . . . . I thought that was our speculation, hope, desire, wish, et cetera. . . .

    Cheers, Perry
    Last edited by gtwo; 12/12/2005 at 09:42 PM.
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I've snipped part of your posts for brevity but I think you make some good points. I don't agree with your conclusion though. I think there is no question that there was discussion about whether or not to include WiFi in the phone INCLUDING the capacity to include it in a stick and resulting potential revenues. There is no question in my mind that Palm and the carriers probably bantied these ideas back and forth, Palm possibly making the Treos appear "cheaper" perhaps than other phones, etc. I'm sure this was discussed. Regardless, I'm incredibly irate that there will still be no WiFi drivers for 650 owners. Why? Because Palm believes you'll spend $$$$ on yet another phone and providers want to suck you into another 2 year contract to get it.
    I still doubt that profits on a WiFi card were part of the reasoning and here is why:
    1) They don't manufacture the cards (profits not that tremendous for Palm)
    2) I don't think that we are a good indicator of the demand for an external solution (most ppl will just buy the phone that has WiFi or do w/o WiFi IMHO)

    I also believe the reason the cards didn't work at first were POS driver engineering issues. However, I do believe after resolving those issues, they made a conscious decision not to issue them for the Treo.

    Your comment of "making Treos cheaper" goes right back to my first point. I think this is the real culprit.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    I still doubt that profits on a WiFi card were part of the reasoning and here is why:
    1) They don't manufacture the cards (profits not that tremendous for Palm)
    2) I don't think that we are a good indicator of the demand for an external solution (most ppl will just buy the phone that has WiFi or do w/o WiFi IMHO)

    ........
    Agree. In any case, one cannot make money on something that does not work out-of-the-box.
  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    ........I also believe the reason the cards didn't work at first were POS driver engineering issues. However, I do believe after resolving those issues, they made a conscious decision not to issue them for the Treo.....
    Perhaps. I tend to believe that the problem is not so much a driver problem as a power problem. Wi-Fi is a power hog while Palm engineers for battery life.
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by gtcaz
    Because the 650 doesn't have WiFi hardware (as opposed to having it, but it being crippled, like BT was).
    PLEASE.....that's not the point at all. If the carrier says no to WiFi, then and unlocked 650, usable on Cingular, T-Mobile, and any number of world networks COULD have the WiFi if it were capable of having WiFi - THEREFORE, Palm is either lazy, penny-pinching, or just can't make WiFi work with bluetooth and cellular radios on Frankengarnet.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  6. #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Pan fried cheese balls at that!

    Cheesecake factory has Fried Macaroni and Cheese balls. OMG to die for!!!!
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  7. #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    PLEASE.....that's not the point at all. If the carrier says no to WiFi, then and unlocked 650, usable on Cingular, T-Mobile, and any number of world networks COULD have the WiFi if it were capable of having WiFi - THEREFORE, Palm is either lazy, penny-pinching, or just can't make WiFi work with bluetooth and cellular radios on Frankengarnet.
    I do not understand this assertion. It is not that Cingular and T-Mobile do not want their customers to have Wi-Fi. It is that they do not want anyone's customers to have it. I have an unlocked GSM Treo. I use it on Cingular. If I had Wi-Fi, it would compete with Cingular. Cingular uses its influence with Palm to ensure that, while it may be available on non-phone Palm devices, it is not available on any Treos.
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    PLEASE.....that's not the point at all. If the carrier says no to WiFi, then and unlocked 650, usable on Cingular, T-Mobile, and any number of world networks COULD have the WiFi if it were capable of having WiFi - THEREFORE, Palm is either lazy, penny-pinching, or just can't make WiFi work with bluetooth and cellular radios on Frankengarnet.
    Hey, I'm on your side. I want WiFi in the next device I buy. I'm just saying, the 650 doesn't have an 802.11 radio. You'd have to add it with an expansion card. You point could be valid regarding the WiFi driver situation.
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    #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    This is an assumption...and IMHO a flawed one.

    The truth is, we have NO idea why Palm isn't including WiFi. It could be pressure from the carriers, a cost cutting measure, or maybe their engineers are just too stupid to get it to work w/ 2 other radios in the phone (doubtful, but a remote posibility.) All this conjecture as to why is dumb since we have nothing to back it up.
    (1) If the carriers didn't want WiFi, they wouldn't be offering several other phones with it. That argument is now moot. (2) Cost cutting measure is also not too bright because of the below. (3) Stupidity -- who knows. Could be that the lack of changing the internals to incorporate this option now leaves Palm at the late date of looking at some drastic and costly hardware redesign. Again, should have dealt with this earlier.

    Regardless, it's dumb because there is no viable alternative. Since the 700w is already RAM underpowered, then even the non-solution solution of using an SD card is out. Palm is glad to put out a Mobile PC operating device. I wouldn't want to make my entry one that doesn't stack up against many of the others right out of the starting gate.
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    (1) If the carriers didn't want WiFi, they wouldn't be offering several other phones with it. That argument is now moot.
    I am without proof, but it seems likely that service providers provide higher rebates for phones like Treo that generate higher ARPU. The service provider's may carry some phones with WiFi, but their end cost to the consumer is likely quite a bit higher due to the lower rebates. Since Palm wants to grow its market share, perhaps it choses to keep its cost to the consumer down by not including wifi.

    Look at Palm's amazing success in the North American smartphone market,. They are beating larger companies with better designed smart phones, faster sales growth, and more service provider relationships. It seems to me that the adjective "stupid", more likely applies to the person using that word, rather than the company that is beating all of its competition about the head and ears.
  11. #231  
    That's because North Americans often aren't aware of all the other makers out there. Too bad I have seen what I-mate and HTC can do together. They kind of make Palm look behind the times somewhat. Considering HTC makes the Treo also, but without some of the features I-mate devices have.

    And the Treo isn't necessarily cheap. $600 GSM unbranded. $550 full price of a branded GSM Treo. And with contract, $450($350 with rebate). Sprint and Verizon have cheaper deals($240 is the lowest I've seen with 2 yr. contract, $350 the norm). Carriers and Palm are not really keeping costs to the consumer low, not charging around $300+ average along with a required 2 yr. contract.

    I wouldn't use "stupid" to describe Palm, but shortsighted. Skimping on memory and no built-in wi-fi on a phone that costs that much($700 when it came out), not good. Then someone mentioned the connector issue. I hadn't thought about that. The Treo is still good, but the next one should have not little upgrades, but big ones. The 700w wi-fi card option with low memory is MINOR if the full price will be around $600. And I suspect it will.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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    #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    I am without proof, but it seems likely that service providers provide higher rebates for phones like Treo that generate higher ARPU. The service provider's may carry some phones with WiFi, but their end cost to the consumer is likely quite a bit higher due to the lower rebates. Since Palm wants to grow its market share, perhaps it choses to keep its cost to the consumer down by not including wifi.
    The problem is that their WiFi option sucks. It's almost a non-option.

    Look at Palm's amazing success in the North American smartphone market,. They are beating larger companies with better designed smart phones, faster sales growth, and more service provider relationships. It seems to me that the adjective "stupid", more likely applies to the person using that word, rather than the company that is beating all of its competition about the head and ears.
    It's not fair to compare. Palm was Palm OS. It is not necessarily any longer. I use the word "stupid" to refer to the management team, obviously... and if they were beating the competition to a pulp then there wouldn't be so much competition like there is now, with all sorts of options about to become available...
  13. #233  
    I thought this was a 700p thread?
  14. #234  
    Which is still vaporware as of now .
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Which is still vaporware as of now .
    Not really vaporware. This is just Silly Season. In previous years Palm was leaking vapor. This year they have not leaked. There is no vapor, only Perry's letter to Santa. It will get even less recognition and response than such letters usually get.
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I use the word "stupid" to refer to the management team, obviously... and if they were beating the competition to a pulp then there wouldn't be so much competition like there is now, with all sorts of options about to become available...
    The way to measure who is winning and who is losing is not whether or not a buyer has options. It all relates to market share. Palm, at last measurement, had 31% of the North American market. Rimm had 55%, but that was mainly in the enterprise, and primarily as a push email device. The remaining 15% was split 3 or 4 ways plus a miscellaneous group. So there is no way that the options you are looking at have any significant market share. In short, Palm is positively dominant in the North American smartphone market with prosumers. So calling the management team that is rapdily gaining market share on the rest of the market, "stupid", reflects poorly on the intelligence of he who denigrates them.
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    The way to measure who is winning and who is losing is not whether or not a buyer has options. It all relates to market share. Palm, at last measurement, had 31% of the North American market. Rimm had 55%, but that was mainly in the enterprise, and primarily as a push email device. The remaining 15% was split 3 or 4 ways plus a miscellaneous group. So there is no way that the options you are looking at have any significant market share. In short, Palm is positively dominant in the North American smartphone market with prosumers. So calling the management team that is rapdily gaining market share on the rest of the market, "stupid", reflects poorly on the intelligence of he who denigrates them.
    Exactly. Slinky is just a troll. Best not to feed it.
  18. #238  
    Thanks for tip 2000, I will leave him be from here on out.
  19. #239  
    I am seeing SO MANY people with 650s around New York it is astounding. I have also had conversations with people who don't have a Treo but recognize it as the best and would get one if they could only justify the cost. My company (an investment bank) is now offering the 650 as an approved device in anticipation of the Blackberry client release. As far as I'm concerned, all Palm needs to do is add memory and EVDO to the 650 to make the 700p worthwhile. WiFi would be nice, but if you have unlimited data and with wireless bandwidth increasing, it is not absolutely necessary.
    Newton 120 > PalmPilot Pro > Palm III > Visor Deluxe > Visor Prism > Treo 90 > Treo 600 (Sprint) > Treo 700p (Verizon)
    ----------------------------Nokia 5160------------------> Motorola V8160 ^
  20. #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by vflopez
    As far as I'm concerned, all Palm needs to do is add memory and EVDO to the 650 to make the 700p worthwhile. WiFi would be nice, but if you have unlimited data and with wireless bandwidth increasing, it is not absolutely necessary.
    Amen!
    If God brought you to it He'll bring you thru it!

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