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  1. #41  
    All that stuff is "feature phone" crap - the same thing you see on every LG/Nokia/Samsung/next great thing camera cell phone. Add to that the unending talk of Palm Linux feature phones, and what do you get - the end of development of Palm OS for smartphones.
    I know I need to get my Qool QDA-700 review done to discount what you just said. But even just using Garnet, PalmOS as a feature phone platform is quite well fitted. The problem has always been cost and how much control the end user has (remember, phones are bought by the carriers not us).

    Garnet is dead....we knew this and Access said as much. The good part is that this means dev hours go to PalmLinux. Smile, it could even be early.

    This does mean that any cobalt devices are dead in teh water and basically will only run as far as an individual company would support them. Having said that, I have a theory that the next Treo was Cobalt, but having known PS/Access's plans, they played the smart card and didnt release a device that would have seen high initial sales to a few, but overall tank because there was no dev support to a soon to be announced dead platform.

    So smile. The 650 will see production and firmware updates for a while, and might even become the first cell phone to last more than a few years. Its a good thing for Palm and us. As for me, I need a 650, the 600 is great but Avvenu has got me thinking that I need a better screen (more RAM would be nice too but until PDAParts does RAM updates I will chill).
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM
    Garnet is dead....we knew this and Access said as much. The good part is that this means dev hours go to PalmLinux. Smile, it could even be early.

    This does mean that any cobalt devices are dead in teh water and basically will only run as far as an individual company would support them. Having said that, I have a theory that the next Treo was Cobalt, but having known PS/Access's plans, they played the smart card and didnt release a device that would have seen high initial sales to a few, but overall tank because there was no dev support to a soon to be announced dead platform.

    I've been arguing for a while that I think the next gen PalmOS Treo may be Coblat based as well, but even I'm being cautious with a tinge of skepticism due to the fact that Cobalt protein based apps will not be binary compatible with PL based protein apps. Yeah I know PACE probably will be supported in PL, but this would be a major PITA for dev and consumers imo. I truely wonder how Palm could manage this and whether they truely think they can stretch out FrankenGarnet for the next two years?

    The final and most drastic theory imo, could be the possibility that Palm would release an entirely and "pure-linux" based device for which a future Palm Linux upgrade would be possible once the platform is complete...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    My initial aim was to keep all the threads merged into one. The original and oldest was posted in General, but I have now moved it to the Future Treos forum...
    Sorry for sounding jerky. I imagine moderating on a wildfire like this is tough. I appreciate your moving it back to Future Treos where it gets more air time.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  4. #44  
    Guys - two years is an ETERNITY in the tech business (even in the glacial cell phone industry). I'm not a Windoze fanboy, but where will Palm be faced with two additional years of Windows Mobile progress (and heavy competition from HTC, HP, Samsung, among others) and the prospect of launching a totally new, untried Linux platform? And to what end, UNLESS, it can run circles around the WM platform?

    Why is this so hard for everyone to see? CPM had hit a technical dead end that DOS extended, as did DOS as Windows 95 matured. Linux is a formidable competitor in the server space, but not the desktop. I'm afraid that's just what Access is saying about the Palm OS. More power to them if they think they can compete with a brand new shiny Palinux (sorry, couldn't resist) in 2007, but think where we were just in 2003 in the smartphone business (Samsung i330 - ugh!). WM7 will be out by then, and if HTC can shove the kitchen sink in the Wizard now (a whole .25" thicker than our beloved Treo 650) using WM5, what do you think they'll be releasing in two years. I think it's a given the M$oft will steal/use the good hooks Palm has added to the WM5 platform, and everybody can have a one handed smartphone.

    Man, I HOPE I'm wrong, but I'm AFRAID I'm right.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  5. #45  
    I worry about my good friend DrDoom. I hope he has an endless supply of emoticons at his disposal.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM
    So smile. The 650 will see production and firmware updates for a while, and might even become the first cell phone to last more than a few years.
    Do you really think so? I was thinking with the release of the Windoze-based Treo that a newer Treo would be coming out for the Palm OS.

    Or do most people here think we won't see a Treo 700p anytime soon?
    Apple iPhone 8GB
    Apple 15" Macbook Pro 2.33 Ghz C2D
    Retired Treo 650
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by MacUser
    Or do most people here think we won't see a Treo 700p anytime soon?
    Ask Perry
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  8. #48  
    <body bgcolor="#ffffff">
    <p><font size="-2" color="#4684ff" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"><b>imageone</b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"> &#x2022; current - <b>PowerBook G4 - Mac OS X - white iPod video 60GB - Treo 650 - 700p (Sprint)<br>
    </b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular">retired - Visor Deluxe - Visor Prism - Kyocera 6035 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Blackberry 7250</font></p>
    </body>
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwartz
    <snip>...
    It references statements by Access in this article that they plan to 'End of Life' PalmOS soon.
    This link to document not found. Did they take it out or just moved it?
  10. #50  
    taken down, read the article at palminfocenter. link to above post.
    <body bgcolor="#ffffff">
    <p><font size="-2" color="#4684ff" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"><b>imageone</b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"> &#x2022; current - <b>PowerBook G4 - Mac OS X - white iPod video 60GB - Treo 650 - 700p (Sprint)<br>
    </b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular">retired - Visor Deluxe - Visor Prism - Kyocera 6035 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Blackberry 7250</font></p>
    </body>
  11. #51  
    Do you really think so? I was thinking with the release of the Windoze-based Treo that a newer Treo would be coming out for the Palm OS.

    Or do most people here think we won't see a Treo 700p anytime soon?
    I was somewhat saying above that I think that it was the original intent of Palm to release both a Cobalt and WM Treo. Not at the same time, but to have both. The Cobalt one hinged on Access and whether it would have been "kept in que" so to speak. Even with the dis-announcement of this announcement, most everyone knows that Garnet is dead in the water. There isnt much more that it can do other than be pushed down market and "keep the palm alive" for a bit longer. However, I think that TX and Z22 are that point. Anything more is not technically nice to happen.

    Therefore, that leaves the 650 as a (not bad at all) platform to perfect. Even if an update was only to add memory and wifi (without a card), it could hang on to Garnet for a bit longer and not really have an issue. One has to understand, as a platform, its been there a good while already. And if Palm is truely wanting to milk the BBconnect deal, the 650 needs to stay a viable platform for a while. In my opinon, there will be at least one or two major ROM updates (only if a new model doesnt come, then I give it one update before end of life). Palm only has done two updates per year max, and so that gives the Treo a year of "refreshing" and another year of selling to an increating marketshare. Not a bad philolsophy if I am right.

    The problem with my thinking is that this counts on WM only scoring well with corps/govts. This can happen. Heck, Palm can make the WM Treo a business channels device only for 6 months and it really stick it in there. That would be good for the PalmOS one. The only thing there also is keeping the PalmOS one in the limelight enough that it doesnt get overshadowed in the consumer sector by the WM one. Given the past performance of marketing materials, uh oh PalmOS Treo.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by scsanden
    "One more Palm OS Treo. . . (700p?) (Q1 2006) (Sprint)"

    IMO Not

    Entry level PDAs (Zire) need a simple clean OS, Palm OS will fit that bill for 2-3 more years.

    One more Palm OS Treo. . . (700p?) (Q1 2006) (Sprint)

    Next Palm OS Treo after that will have to be a multi-tasking Linux/Palm OS with the ability to run heritage 3rd party Palm OS software.

    One man's forecast. . . .

    Cheers, Perry.


    I still believe!




    .
    Last edited by gtwo; 10/21/2005 at 10:07 PM.
  13. #53  
    "The first devices running the new operating system, currently referred to as Palm OS for Linux, are expected around the middle of next year."

    http://www.brighthand.com/article/Palm_OS_Is_NOT_Dead

    What is the problem and why the references to having to spend an extra 2 years with Frankengarnet? No need for an interim Treo upgrade, if the revised Linux Palm OS will be upgradeable by mid next year imo.

    On another front, this post by **** Tracy from 1src.com casts light on the issue of the death of the Palm OS.

    http://www.1src.com/forums/showthrea...2&page=1&pp=15

    Here's how I understand the Agreement: (Purchase agreement for the Palm name.)

    OS3 and before will be continue to be called PalmOS.
    OS4, 5.2 and 5.4 (Garnet) will have a new name. Maybe Cobalt too.

    The new OS on Linux kernel will have yet another new name. It is not a part of the Purchase Agreement since there is no product available, nor has it been officially named. Access intends to make this OS compatible with what we now call PalmOS and Garnet so that the market for third party applications can continue to grow.

    Since the media does not do their homework and keep track of which company is which particularly well or with any consistency, I truly expect them to claim "PalmOS is dead" a lot more over the coming months. The fact is that PalmOS is required to have its name changed, nothing else.
  14. #54  
    Treonauts Against PalmOS Scaremongers

    In the coming days you will likely come across some headlines such as the one that Engadget is running today stating that “Access announces the death of PalmOS…” but please don’t be fooled by the big bright lights for this is nothing more than attention-seeking scaremongering.

    The fact is that there has been and will continue to be various carefully orchestrated PRPRPR $campaigns$ $designed$ $to$ $undermine$ $the$ $PalmOS$ ($and$ $at$ $other$ $times$ $Palm$ $as$ $well$).


    http://blog.treonauts.com
  15. #55  
    The paranoia is spreading...

    Surur
  16. #56  
    How many times are we going to hear this song and dance:

    (Munchkins aka Naysayers)
    "Ding-dong the PalmOS is dead,
    Which old witch? The wicked witch,
    Ding-dong the wicked PalmOS is dead"

    C'mon.
    -->BtDUN pre- and post- SprintPCS update 1.12 paired to PC and PPC.
    Darth_Maul -- a dark attacker, trained in the Jedi arts.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    "The first devices running the new operating system, currently referred to as Palm OS for Linux, are expected around the middle of next year."

    http://www.brighthand.com/article/Palm_OS_Is_NOT_Dead

    What is the problem and why the references to having to spend an extra 2 years with Frankengarnet? No need for an interim Treo upgrade, if the revised Linux Palm OS will be upgradeable by mid next year imo.

    NO that is completely wrong. PalmSource/Access is saying that they want to finish and deliver Palm Linux OS to lisencees by mid to late 2006. However, it will then take another year for OEM's to design and develop their devices based on the new OS!!! Recall, that Palm typical Treo development cycle is something like 12-18 months...

    Also obviously, 'Palm Linux' will not be the official name of the new OS...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  18. #58  
    "However, it will then take another year for OEM's to design and develop their devices based on the new OS!!!"

    The quote is quite specific. It says:

    "The first devices running the new operating system, currently referred to as Palm OS for Linux, are expected around the middle of next year."

    What makes you thing the quote is incorrect. Why is it impossible that Palm already has its hands on Palm-Linux and hopes to release something by mid year?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by rvwink
    "However, it will then take another year for OEM's to design and develop their devices based on the new OS!!!"

    The quote is quite specific. It says:

    "The first devices running the new operating system, currently referred to as Palm OS for Linux, are expected around the middle of next year."

    What makes you thing the quote is incorrect. Why is it impossible that Palm already has its hands on Palm-Linux and hopes to release something by mid year?

    Sorry that quote is complete wrong and absolutely contrary to all the other statments and articles published on other sites and even in previous articles on brighthand. If Access/Palmsource won't be able to even finish the final code for PalmLinux until mid to late 2006, how could lisencees possibly have devices already for the new OS by then? IMO the earliest we could see PL based devices would be early 2007 for pda's and even later (12-18 months post PL release) for smartphones. Perhaps linux development will be easier and faster in terms of driver development etc, but there still is a definite lag time for development of devices like these...

    EDIT:

    Just to verify the above point, below is a direct quote from a Palm Exec stating the same thing:

    Ken Wirt, senior vice-president of marketing, said his firm was waiting for PalmSource to port the Palm environment to Linux before moving away from Palm OS 5. He said that there were no plans to produce Windows Mobile PDAs. "It will take us about a year to build a product on Palm OS for Linux after they come out with it," Wirt added.
    http://www.vnunet.com/itweek/analysi...406/sight-palm
    Last edited by Gaurav; 10/22/2005 at 08:30 PM.
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

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  20. DHart's Avatar
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    #60  
    I think everyone is focusing too much on the OS a device uses. Meaning they want Palm OS to survive and become dominant - or Windows OS - or Linux. Frankly I couldn't care which OS my smartphone has. My concern is:

    1. Can I transfer historical data (PDA info) transparently, cleanly and easily to the new device?

    2. Will the User Interface of the new device be better than my previous device? (Can I accomplish current tasks just as easily or more easily and are there new capabilities that were simply not possible on the previous device? Examples: Multitasking; Native support for commonly used PC files like Word, Excel, etc.; higher screen resolution; a better keyboard; more memory; compatibility with 3rd party applications for previous OS's)

    3. Are there new capabilities due to new technology built into the phone? (Examples: Wi-Fi, GPS, EVDO, HSPDA)

    I believe that too many of us confuse a great UI with a great OS. Palm has been dominant in the PDA market place (and has the best smartphone on the market) because of it's UI, not it's OS. Palm made mistake when they sold the Palm OS (Duh!). But they were caught between a rock and hard place. They needed the money and wanted to convince other OS providers that they would be on equal footing with Palm OS if they wrote a deal.

    The problem is they no longer have control of half of the UI - the underlying software that controls their hardware design. They realized this after the fact and did an "OH CRAP! We need it back now!" But too late. They didn't have the juice (read money) to buy it back. So now they can control only half of the UI equation (hardware x software = user experience). They are attempting to expand the market for their hardware design by signing new software providers (MS, Linux (hopefully soon), RIM, rumors of Symbian) to reach as broad an audience as possible. This was their original idea, but without control of the OS, they lose total control of the hardware design. They will have to make concessions to their OS partners to accomodate OS "features". You can bet that MS has already begun the process of bending Palm's future designs to give MS an advantage in the Palm smartphone marketplace.

    Frankly I am not optimist about Palm surviving as a stand alone company. But as far as all of us are concerned, we can't lose. If Palm succeeds it will be because they have delivered a UI that people want because it improves on the current device they are using. If not, that means someone else has.

    To some people this may mean a lot of orphaned 3rd party software. Get over it. Visicalc was great in 1982, but I don't miss it. When it is time to move on, do it.



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