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  1.    #1  
    Rome mentioned in another thread that Palm has been hiring Linux engineers and programmers. Here's some evidence to support that.

    I did a search on Palm's job database for "Linux" and came up with 16 jobs. Some list Linux pretty innocently along with Windows and Mac experience; others explicitly require Linux programming knowledge.

    Some excerpts from the job descriptions:
    "As a Linux Engineer, you will play a key role in the architecture, design and implementation of enabling technologies for a new generation of Palm devices."

    "Extensive knowledge of standard Linux tools"

    "A minimum of 1 year of development experience with PalmOS, PocketPC, embedded Linux, or other small-footprint, mobile, power-conscious devices"

    "Significant project experience developing software for Palm OS, UNIX/Linux, or similar embedded platforms; knowledge of broad areas of software technology."

    "Palm, Inc. is looking for a motivated Software Engineer in charge of testing
    Linux device drivers and possibly drivers for other platforms such as Palm OS."
    There's one obvious explanation - that Palm will be producing a Cobalt/Linux Treo. Are there other possible explanations that I'm missing?
  2. #2  
    I beleive.
  3. #3  
    Maybe they want to actually make it so their new Windows Mobile Treos can talk to Mac OS machines, which everyone knows are just prettied-up BSD UNIX boxen.

    Kidding - this actually brings hope to those who want to see a Palm Linux device!
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  4. #4  
    http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6177

    "The hints that you'll have some kind of Linux running in the Palm of your hand are stronger and more credible than the hints we got a year and a half ago that a Windows Treo would be coming down the pike. For one thing, the anonymous sources that first informed CNET that Palm was exploring Windows Mobile (correctly as we now know) also reported that similar research was being undertaken into Linux. That leaked out in November of 2004, a month before we learned that PalmSource was acquiring China MobileSoft and charting a Linux future for the Palm OS. Was Palm getting ready for PalmSource's "Palm OS for Linux," or were they looking for other "partnerships" (CNET's word) to build their own Linux alternative? Difficult to say, and after all, these "sources" only were talking about research, not actual products.

    More telling are the job openings at Palm over the last 7 months (as far back as I've been watching). In September of last year Palm had openings for 17 Linux engineers on their web site. Today there are 21 positions (16 in engineering) that specifically mention Linux experience as a qualification."
  5. #5  
    The future is quiet bleak for PalmOS (never a mainstream player) and
    Symbian (But for Stupid Nokia, it would have met with a well deserved,
    early death). The shakeout is currently between WM, Linux, Symbian
    and PalmOS. It is anybody's guess who will win.

    - mvk

    PS: I guess the {700|750|800}{p|i|l} is delayed because of the Linux angle...
    Game over!
  6. #6  
    Why does there have to be a winner ? I have 30 car companies I can buy from 4 hard drive companies, 2 major CPU companies, oodles of memory, optical drive manufacturers....i certainly hope the number stays bigger than 3.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Why does there have to be a winner?
    We could get into a discussion on this, but my point was that some OSs - for
    various reasons - will need to be left behind. The future appears to be that of
    WM and maybe Linux. The ones that may be left behind are PalmOS and
    Symbian... Proprietary phone OS's wil be around, of-course.

    I believe that Nokia (Symbian) too is flirting with Linux...

    - mvk

    Winning - no good, Competition - good!
  8. #8  
    Linux will never die. At least it will stay as an alternative for manufactures and they will at least sometimes use it. WM is a big favourite. Symbian will have its share but will stay as a replacement for the ordinary proprietary OSes. In smartphones WM won't win over Symbian untill the interface is improved and XPfied (i mean adding some nice looking elements). PalmOS hasn't future on its own because it is very limited in many ways. One example are terrible problems with localisation. They aren't solveable until the OS is built with unicode in mind. That is also the reason why it never got popular outside North America and western Europe. Linux kernel might solve this. But I think the best way is real Linux distribution working as ordinary Linux on PCs. It would run many programs from PC and features will be maximal.
    Last edited by Wexx; 03/25/2006 at 08:46 AM.
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    #9  
    I don't think Symbian is all that bad...especially Symbian UIQ operating system (like the one in Sony Ericsson P910 and soon to be released P990). I have played with a P910 and it is a very solid OS. In fact, it does better especially with apps that you install in the memory card. Very smooth interface.
    I don't like the other Symbian OS (series 60, 90 which Nokia is using) but UIQ is good and stable.
    The Doctor is IN!
    Gadget: Rogers Treo 680 (unlocked) GSM
    Cases: Still deciding
  10. #10  
    <merged>
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex
    The future is quiet bleak for PalmOS (never a mainstream player) and
    Symbian (But for Stupid Nokia, it would have met with a well deserved,
    early death). The shakeout is currently between WM, Linux, Symbian
    and PalmOS. It is anybody's guess who will win.

    - mvk

    PS: I guess the {700|750|800}{p|i|l} is delayed because of the Linux angle...
    You know Linux can be easily given a PalmOS feel...............
    Somebody....anybody........................Don't let Dr. Doom spill his Kool-Aid on his brand new "perrywinkle" sweater vest!!!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex
    The future is quiet bleak for PalmOS (never a mainstream player) and
    Symbian (But for Stupid Nokia, it would have met with a well deserved,
    early death). The shakeout is currently between WM, Linux, Symbian
    and PalmOS. It is anybody's guess who will win.

    - mvk

    PS: I guess the {700|750|800}{p|i|l} is delayed because of the Linux angle...
    WM...
  13. #13  
    Honestly, who's to say we will ever see a Treo with ALP? According to all that was mentioned earlier, the POS as we know it may fail to exist, but it is entirely possible that Palm itself is flirting with their own Linux based device. Could this be the "New POS"?

    This would mean that they have been working on this a lot longer than we originally thought and could mean that devices could surface quite a bit sooner.

    On a side note, if I have ever heard of someone who fits the bill on those employment ads, it's you Shadow ;-)
    <a href="http://www.wapswap.com/">
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    built for easy acess
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy650
    This would mean that they have been working on this a lot longer than we originally thought and could mean that devices could surface quite a bit sooner.
    And with new bugs (and resetting techniques) firmly in place. - mvk
    Game over!
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy650
    Honestly, who's to say we will ever see a Treo with ALP? According to all that was mentioned earlier, the POS as we know it may fail to exist, but it is entirely possible that Palm itself is flirting with their own Linux based device. Could this be the "New POS"?
    That's kinda the point of the article in message 4.

    her's a bit more as I don't wanan 'steal" the whole article:

    ""New generation"... "overall system team"... "new software platform"... it does sound unmistakably like Palm is working on their own Linux platform. The job title uses the word "handset", implying that this platform might be intended for a future Treo line, but this conclusion might be undercut by a qualification later in the posting that specifies only "handheld" device experience being a plus (implying that telephony might not be part of the plan for this platform after all). I overanalyze, but you start to get the picture.

    There are at least four possible interpretations I could make of this:

    1. Palm is preparing a full-blown Linux-based version of Palm OS that they can continue to give the Palm name to and have complete control over.
    2. This is part of the still-secret "Third Business" that Jeff Hawkins says Palm is cooking up. We don't know much about what this new category of device might be, but it might be a different enough animal that Palm would not consider using Palm OS or ALP. No news about this new product line, but for what it's worth, it got mention in the news again yesterday.
    3. Palm is working in tandem with ACCESS and PalmSource to deliver their own user experience and applications on top of the evolving ALP platform, much as they did for previous versions of Palm OS. I'm doubtful that ACCESS would let a licensee--even Palm--be part of the actual design and building of the platform itself, but perhaps Palm might be given permission to replace the Garnet emulator in ALP with an emulator that runs an updated Palm OS.
    4. Recognizing that the aging Palm OS Garnet is not going to satisfy their customers for two years until an ALP Treo can be released, they are developing a stop-gap system to buy themselves time. A simple solution: develop something like ALP but without all the extra APIs: just the Palm OS emulator and a few critical native Linux apps like the browser, email, phone, and messaging clients that could run in their own processes to improve the multitasking capability of the platform."
  16. #16  
    Jack:

    That is a good analysis of the tea leaves, but with one issue:

    WHY?

    Why bother with all of that when you have M$oft spending all the money to develop WM for them. Why not just further refine the one-handed operation of Palm-like programs on the "W" devices, and throw in a 320x320 or 480x480 screen and just say adiós to PalmOS.

    What corporate value do they really generate by continuing to prop up PalmOS in the smartphone space? Are they afraid M$soft will disappear?
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  17. #17  
    Why ? cause many of us wil not purchase a WM phone....the 700 just has too many compromises for my taste. Look at the ALP thread, it runs 10 to 1 for POS over WM5.

    While trade and business mags (Business Week, WSJ, PC mag, etc) have reported the 700w as the best WM5 device ever, they still say it pales next to the 650.

    See more here:

    http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6192

    Palm has been working on Linux since 2004......2 years later and they are still hiring Linux engineers. I have a better question why take a group of in excess of 20 people and pay them for multiple years at a cost of over $2 million per year ?????

    As for MS, let's remember that Symbian still owns 80% of the smartphone market so MS is by no means the dominant player. Other reasons, :

    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5064.html

    Windows made its game being more nimble and outmanuevering IBM .... now it is IBM. Even tho they escaped punishment in the trial, they still walked away hampered. They can't squeeze competitors anymore like the "DOS & Windows is $29.95 OEM and Windows alone is $44.95" thing to squash competitors like DRDOS. It can't offer exclusivity agreements. It has to win in the market alone and their invincubility has been shattered.

    Whether they have switched to firefox yet is talked about in old ladies book clubs. ExtremeTech reports that various Linux flavors install faster and easier than XP. We are entering the age of the $150 PC. Windows can't fit in that niche.

    MS has to concentrate on keeping the desktop. It has benefited from hardware performance increasing at rate much faster than software. each new OS has been substantially sklower than the alst on the same hardware. The machine you built just 1 year ago with that $299 128 MB vid card meets the min requirements to run Vista. In the phone market however, where size matters, hardware limits have a real impact on the user experience.

    The future of WM on the Treo will depnd on the inevitable comparisons come May. If the tarde mags are recommending the 650 over the 700, what do you think will happen with the 700p on the scene ? Even if they were a dead heat, I gotta belive that the 700p will kick **** in consumer sales based solely on the fact that the data plan is $360 cheaper per year.
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 03/27/2006 at 10:47 AM.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Why ? cause many of us wil never own a WM phone....the 700 just has too many compromises for my tatse.

    See more here:

    http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6192

    Palm has been working on Linux since 2004......2 years later and they are still hiring Linux engineers. I have a better question why take a group of in excess of 20 people and pay them for multiple years at a cost of over $2 million per year ?????

    As for MS, let's rememebr that Symbian still owns 80% of the smartphone market so MS is by no means the dominant player. other reasons, :

    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5064.html
    Jack -

    I realize that Symbian is the 800 pound gorilla, and that there is a legion of M$oft haters that will only think Palm - but how much of that is Palm's core business? If $2,000,000 per year for a Linux stop-gap is so unreasonable, why should they shoulder the burden of programming one OS (a Palm wannabe) and working interface/drivers on another (WM)?

    Why not just overcome those compromises you (and others) don't like in WM5 with interface software they already work on the two different platforms? Why continue to fight (and finance) a fight that gets you VERY LITTLE bang for the buck?

    I am not a M$oft lover (even though I have gone to the dark side with a Cingular 8125, primarily for WiFi and better keyboard). However, stacking Palm ease of use on the WM5 operating system gets them the multi-tasking of Linux WITHOUT the investment of juggling both OSes. Just makes sense to me.

    I'm willing to bet the "Never WM" crowd is a drop in thebucket, and besides, where else are the Treo lovers going to go if they drop PalmOS but keep the Treo form factor with tweaked WM5 software?
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  19. #19  
    There's an interview with Donna Dubinsky and Jeff Hawkins for the 10 year anniversary of the 1st Palm device. Where they answer a question regarding the next 10 years they answer talking about Palm products "on multiple platforms". So if windows is to eb th eonly one, what's the plural from doing in that sentence ?

    There's another article on "The Zen of Palm" which I think is the core reason palm loyalists exists. I posted the links in Treo Chat section.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    There's an interview with Donna Dubinsky and Jeff Hawkins for the 10 year anniversary of the 1st Palm device. Where they answer a question regarding the next 10 years they answer talking about Palm products "on multiple platforms". So if windows is to eb th eonly one, what's the plural from doing in that sentence ?

    There's another article on "The Zen of Palm" which I think is the core reason palm loyalists exists. I posted the links in Treo Chat section.
    "Palm products" is the key phrase. It may live on in a PDA/Multi-media device environment, but that doesn't control the smartphone space.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see, because I definitely do not have gharrod's all seeing eye.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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