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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    Really??? You data mean nothing to most people except for a Microsoft fan boy. Let me try to understand your logic here:

    - The winning smartphone platform must have a lot of third-party software.
    - The smartphone platform with the largest number of third-party software will win
    - More features equal to technological leadership, which will turn into market leadership
    - Smartphone buyers who bought an OS platform that has fewer third-party software than MW must be using their smartphones as dumb phones.
    - Since BB has the fewest third party software among all the major platforms, BB is, therefore, nothing but a two-way pager.
    Rome, you are completely projecting.

    - The winning smartphone platform must have a lot of third-party software.
    Where did I say that? Symbian outsells everyone else combined, yet they have less software.

    The smartphone thats used as a smartphone will have more software.

    - The smartphone platform with the largest number of third-party software will win
    Again, clearly not the case. What I said was a large number of apps means the device is being used as a smartphone.

    - More features equal to technological leadership, which will turn into market leadership
    Again, market leadership is clearly completely independent of anything else except branding and marketing.

    - Smartphone buyers who bought an OS platform that has fewer third-party software than WM must be using their smartphones as dumb phones.
    This is the ONE spot where you have me right. When you buy into a limited platform, its mostly because you do not intend to you your device as a smartphone. I did not say everyone, but this applies to the majority.

    - Since BB has the fewest third party software among all the major platforms, BB is, therefore, nothing but a two-way pager.
    Nearly right. Since it has the least software, most of its users use it as a two way pager only.

    ... but way to put words in other people's mouths.

    Surur
  2. Hargoth's Avatar
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    #42  
    And one comment on Branding:

    Only the young and/or inexperienced will by Microsoft products by brand.

    1. Lack of knowledge of MS corporate history.
    2. Lack of knowledge of MS corporate strategies.
    3. Lack of technical expertise in the underpinnings of all MS OS platforms as they compare to former, current, and future competitors and aternatives.
    4. Lack of experience in MS programming policies and practices. (yes, I have seen and helped port a MS OS)

    There are others, but the point being: Lack of experience with MS is the only assurance that the MS brand has any draw to consumers.

    Therefore, experience with MS products destroys its brand name.

    Some are required to use MS products under threat of job security.
    Some are required to use MS products because other corporate vendors (think ISVs) are also 'locked in' and simply cannot provide applications and services to other platforms.

    But by far, the most common purchase of MS products are outside of the consumer's control, and have nothing at all to do with marketing, branding, or desirability. It is simply impossible for an inexperienced consumer to purchase technology without paying the 'Microsoft Tax'. It is assumed.

    This simple fact alone should have caused the 'Boston tea party' equivalent in technology many years ago. It has not happened due to ignorance.

    So please, it does you no service to hold up the MS banner as desirable. The very opposite is true, and any technical savvy person should know better.

    Let Freedom ring!
  3. #43  
    Hargoth:

    The sixties are over. Enough with the Apple stump speeches. You can't storm the ramparts forever.

    M$oft is a bully, (you can even call them the imperial storm troopers if you like) but face it, they have set the standard, and it doesn't matter how they got there. XP is their most solid effort to date, MS Server 2003 has been up and running for us since first release, and anything that interconnects with its infrastructure is much easier to sell and support than the open source rebellion.

    I don't like M$oft much either, but this "to know them is to hate them" attitude is unfair to folks posting their various opinions around here, right, wrong, or indifferent.

    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hargoth
    Therefore, experience with MS products destroys its brand name.

    Some are required to use MS products under threat of job security.
    Some are required to use MS products because other corporate vendors (think ISVs) are also 'locked in' and simply cannot provide applications and services to other platforms.

    But by far, the most common purchase of MS products are outside of the consumer's control, and have nothing at all to do with marketing, branding, or desirability. It is simply impossible for an inexperienced consumer to purchase technology without paying the 'Microsoft Tax'. It is assumed.

    This simple fact alone should have caused the 'Boston tea party' equivalent in technology many years ago. It has not happened due to ignorance.
    Wow! I would hate it if my boss bought me a HTC Startrek. And if my corp offers to buy me a x-box 360, I would have to say no, except I might lose my job if I refuse this Microsoft tax. And everyone knows coding in Visual Studio 2005 is just way too easy. A real man uses the command line!

    I guess thats why the Microsoft brand is worth only $59 billion, second only to Coca Cola, and ahead of IBM. They better change their name ASAP, to get away from all the bad associations.

    Surur
  5. #45  
    Since ALPS is linux why would this be any mystery??
  6. #46  
    Because Palm has been hiring since last year already, and Access will not deliver any API's to code against till earliest end 2006. What are these coders doing between now and then?

    Surur
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Since it has the least software, most of its users use it as a two way pager only.
    Surur
    Ok, I will use your words only then.

    For all your BB users out there, please raise your hand if you use your BB as a two-way pager only. Or, surur, do you consider push emails just like those technologically ancient two-way pages?
  8. #48  
    interfacing with the ALPS group so they will have a clue. Good grief do you think they just hire people on a moments notice? They have a lot of Palm customization to do and the graphical front end I am betting is going to belong to Palm. The business I am in a lot of things take 18+ months to go through all the testing, then remember they have to get this all by the FCC eventually. Sorry if I sound grumpy but ths is what I call "mice nuts." Think about it.
  9. #49  
    gharrod, so you are of the opinion that Palm and Access are collaborating on ALP? Thats not the impression most people have.

    And Rome, yes, Blackberries are glorified two way pagers. Why do you think your boss wants you to have one? To listen to your MP3's? Hell, they dont even allow removable storage!

    Surur
  10. #50  
    Access bought PalmSource and Palm has an agreement with them for their operating system. Access is developing a linux back end and Palm devices will have that with a Palm OS look-alike front end. There will be an emulator to run existing Palm OS apps.

    If I am wrong please someone correct me. Palm has has press releases on this issue.
  11. #51  
    There is no Palm press release. If you have a link I would like to see it. Palm's only contract with Access is for Garnet which expires 2009.

    Access is building a whole new OS, to sell to Asian carriers, especially NTT DoCoMo, who is their third largest shareholder and who recently invested $ 128 million in the company. They are building a new UI based on Rome, the smartphone UI. It will probably have 2 soft keys, and will be designed to work with or without a touch screen. They have dumped the whole Cobalt legacy. They will include a POS emulator, but will also be able to run Java and straight GTK+ Linux software. There will be a unified launcher, and a browser based home screen (kind of like a today screen, but based on web technologies). They make a big thing of exposing multi-tasking well, which I assume will mean a taskbar of some kind.

    Have a read here. No-one knows what ALP will look like but many many people dont see it as the growth path from Garnet.

    http://www.access.co.jp/images/WP_ALP_FINAL.pdf

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 03/28/2006 at 07:27 PM.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    Access bought PalmSource and Palm has an agreement with them for their operating system. Access is developing a linux back end and Palm devices will have that with a Palm OS look-alike front end. There will be an emulator to run existing Palm OS apps.

    If I am wrong please someone correct me. Palm has has press releases on this issue.
    You are correct...they commited to being customers of Acces until 2010 or something like that if I recall.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    And Rome, yes, Blackberries are glorified two way pagers. Why do you think your boss wants you to have one? To listen to your MP3's? Hell, they dont even allow removable storage!

    Surur
    Ok, then, ask yourself this - why did it talke so long for the mighty microsoft to come out with its push email technology? especially when push email is no more than "glorified" two-way page. As of today, Microsoft's push email solution is still not widely available. And by many accounts, it is still not as elegant a push email solution as the RIM solution.

    And here are your own words:

    WM - Powerful, flexible, cutting edge, works well with windows, has MS behind it.
    Allow me to rephrase - how could such a powerful, flexible, cutting edge brand fall so far behind such simple technology like a "glorified" two-way page?

    And shall we talk about the delay of Vista while we are at it...
  14. #54  
    Rome, has it occurred to you blackberry does push well because they started by working on specialized networks (like pagers) and only very much later moved on to IP based networks? And that they work in conjunction with service providers and their own NOC? I recall similar Palm based info system (palm VII) which did not do half as well. If Palm actually executed they could have been where RIM is now. Instead they will be implementing MS's solution in a few months.

    Surur
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    There is no Palm press release. If you have a link I would like to see it. Palm's only contract with Access is for Garnet which expires 2009.

    Access is building a whole new OS, to sell to Asian carriers, especially NTT DoCoMo, who is their third largest shareholder and who recently invested $ 128 million in the company. They are building a new UI based on Rome, the smartphone UI. It will probably have 2 soft keys, and will be designed to work with or without a touch screen. They have dumped the whole Cobalt legacy. They will include a POS emulator, but will also be able to run Java and straight GTK+ Linux software. There will be a unified launcher, and a browser based home screen (kind of like a today screen, but based on web technologies). They make a big thing of exposing multi-tasking well, which I assume will mean a taskbar of some kind.

    Have a read here. No-one knows what ALP will look like but many many people dont see it as the growth path from Garnet.

    http://www.access.co.jp/images/WP_ALP_FINAL.pdf

    Surur
    Here is the link to the press release. One small correction is was Access/Palmsource which put the release out. It waqs reporteed about everywhere and a huge point of discussion in the threads.

    http://www.access.co.jp/english/press/060214.html
  16. #56  
    Thats the whole point. Palm has not endorsed Access in any way, and have not given any clues that indicate they will upgrade to it. At the same time they are hiring Linux developers to write PIM clients and web browsers (which would be included in ALP if they were going to use it). To re-purpose an old saying, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for for free? Why pay tens of millions in license fees to Access when they can make their own solution?

    Surur
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    Here is the link to the press release. One small correction is was Access/Palmsource which put the release out. It waqs reporteed about everywhere and a huge point of discussion in the threads.

    http://www.access.co.jp/english/press/060214.html
    Problem is that is a PalmSource (software company)announcement ...... which has nothing to do with Palm, Inc. (hardware company). Palm the hardware company has made no committment to Palm Source teh software company to use ALP>

    As can be seen here:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...3&page=2&pp=30

    Palm, Inc has not "bought into" ALP leading to much speculations as to why some hardware vendors have signed on and Palm, Inc has not.

    Here's some people who have signed on or are considering signing on but much has been made about Palm, Inc NOT being one of those.
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 03/28/2006 at 08:27 PM.
  18. #58  
    No wise man can reason away what a fool believes. So believe what you may read into things but I will promise you that wrong is wrong. It is not my job to convince you of reality.
  19. #59  
    Ouch! Is that a nasty way to say we're right?

    Surur
  20. #60  
    No, it is a very simple way to say you are dead wrong and are to dense to recognize that you are wrong. But I am through trying to talk sense to you with your nonsensical and argumentative replies. But we are used to that from you Surur.
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