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  1. #21  
    I believe. (Chant)


  2. #22  
    I believe.
    Jimmie Geddes
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Geddes
    I believe.
    Yes? And what is your position on the Great Pumpkin?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Yes? And what is your position on the Great Pumpkin?
    sincerity is the key
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    I'm having a hard time seeing a company with decreasing profits to have the R&D $ for two product lines on entirely different technology. Windows Mobile 5 will probably win out. OTOH, if Treo/Windows flops, they may continue on the PalmOS wave. But I don't see PalmOS winning corporate America.
    Palm's net income for the most recent quarter 1Q06 is UP slightly from the prior quarter 4Q05 ($18.2M vs. $17.7M).

    Compared to year earlier, 1Q05, net income is down $1.4 million ($18.2 vs. $19.6) but that's primarily because R&D is up over $10.4 million ($29.0M vs. $18.6M). Gross profit is way up ($104.4 vs. $91.3).

    Palm's profitability gives them plenty of room to invest and grow.
  6. #26  
    My position on the great pumpkin is, self explanatory, it's a great pumpkin. I'll stick to the discussion here at "treo"central though. I believe!
    Jimmie Geddes
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    That is a possbility, but I think most people realize the Garnet has really reached its EOL (end of life) as a sustainable platform. You arguement that perhaps Garnet will continue to be used in low end phones may be plausible, but you would then have to assume all these 'low end' phones will support 1xEvDo only? Where would the market for that be? I'm pretty certain that both VeriZon and Sprint will want to quickly shift most of their phones to 1xEvDo. Even if users will only want to use/pay for 1xrtt, most of these 1xEvDo phones will be backward compatible with 1xrtt. In short, i just don't see a market for Garnet based devices in the low end in the future anymore...
    I guess that sounds plausible. However, in sprints marketing for data services, didnt they use a model that allowed lower costs to the end user with the belief that they would have many more users paying for the services? Theoretically, couldnt sprint roll out evdo at a price point of $15 dollars and have twice as many subscribers than verizon (at whatever they charge? $30?) and be able to have evdo on the low end phones as well (just a thought).

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    No, because Palm has already stated that Verizon will have an extended period of exclusivity for the WM Treo 700. Thus if Sprint wanted the WM Treo, it would have to wait a very looong time, perhaps even into the second part of 2006. It is more likely imo, that a Cobalt based Treo could be released by Sprint in the interim imo. Recall there is no exclusivity given to Verizon afaikafaikafaik $for$ $a$ $next$ $Gen$ $PalmOS$ $based$ $Treo$...
    True but how long is exclusive agreement for? If its just for 6 months, does anyone really believe that a POS will be out by then anyway? Its been a year since the 650 came out on sprint right? I hope you are right on the Cobalt platform...if it comes out about the same time that sprint gets the 700, then it will make it much harder for palm folks to switch (assuming cobalt delivers what wm5 delivers.) Palmsource must be banking on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Like I stated above, 1xEvDo is already supported in the current version of Cobalt PalmOS. Palm Linux won't be read until late 2006 at the earliest which means we won't see any Palm Linux devices (if at all) until perhaps 2007! Until then, the only plausable OS is Cobalt for all the reasons stated above...
    I hope so but I think 6 months will be the max amount of time that Verizon will have the WM5 treo. I can't imagine that palm and windows would agree to much longer than that simply because from a cost benefit analysis, Verizon must be paying big to keep it from sprint (i.e. paying what palm and MS would get if both Sprint and Verizon were selling them.) If Verizon isn't paying for both, then there has to be some other incentive for them to withold it from Sprint (or maybe sprint wasnt ready with their evdo market? I don't know.)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  8. Stig's Avatar
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    #28  
    Maybe Iím wrong, but a reason why a lot of people donít like the idea of a Windows Treo is that they would have to lose all their precious PalmOS software collections. However, surely Cobalt would have its own compatibility issues for Palm software anyway. Either way, Palm alienates the existing Treo community.
  9. #29  
    Back at the Treo Roadshow in Dallas in '04 (I think, when we got to order our treo 650's cheap). I talked to Ken Wirt after the show and asked him about Charles Wolfe's (sp?) comments on PalmOne making a windows mobile treo. He flat out denied it, but now we've got one so take this with a grain of salt.

    I then asked when will you produce a cobalt device? We laughed over palmsource creating a product no one was using. Then seeing that I thought it was important, he said that they might make on in '05, then conditioned it with "maybe not even till early '06." I inferred from that conversation that no cobalt devices until '06 (and treo's were what we were talking about), if ever. Basically he said Palm was able to do what it wanted with OS 5 just fine so far. He stated also they didn't want to switch to cobalt yet because it would confuse developers. Some developers could better explain that last comment. But again this was over 1 year ago and much has changed (WM Treo).
  10. #30  
    I think *most* apps would work due to PACE in Cobalt. It would provide emulation.I think if we want EVDO, and Sprint will want a Treo running EVDO to compete with Verizon, Palm will do what it can to make it happen.
    Jimmie Geddes
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Wouldn't tea leaves, frogs entrails, or birds serve as well?
    HUH? Nothing supernatural about this. No support for 1xEvDo stack in Garnet is a fact...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    HUH? Nothing supernatural about this. No support for 1xEvDo stack in Garnet is a fact...
    Perhaps that is true. Not related to the assertion, "I believe" to which I responded.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    You and gfunk may be right (I hope you are) but if they have had it so long, why is it taking this long to get to market? I would have been trying to push it out the door ASAP if I was sprint or cingular (knowing Verizon had the WM treo).

    I imagine, because they (Palm) were still waiting for PalmSource to update Cobalt adeqautely. Recall, PalmSource delivered Coblat to lisencees December 31, 2003!

    http://palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6409

    Obviously, the OS wasn't exactly a success with lisencees for various reasons. It took another 9 months after (Sept 2004) that for PalmSource to finally release an update to increase telephony support in Cobalt 6.1 for smartphones:

    http://palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7166

    This was only about a month before Palm announced the Treo 650 last year:

    http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/472-1.htm

    Thus if you look at the timeline, it hasn't even been a year since the release of Cobalt 6.1 for smartphones! Furthermore, it is not exactly certain when PalmSource finally completed the CDMA telephony stack for Cobalt which may have been even later than that!!

    Couple this with the fact that typical development times to market for smartphone devices like the Treo are upwards of 18 months or more, and it is NO wonder why there haven't been any Coblat Treo's to market yet. If you stick to the 18 month product development cycle from last year's release of Cobalt 6.1 or the release of the 650, then the most appropiate expected launch time frame for the next gen PalmOS Treo would be around March 2006...which incidently is also the time frame all previous rumors regarding the next PalmOS treo state....

    In addition, if you read all the articles about the WM Treo developments, you'll see that Palm has been working on the WM Treo for nearly TWO YEARS now (barely a couple months after the release of Coblat):

    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5883320.html


    THat's how long is takes to develop these devices. Thus you can imagine how long Palm Linux devices really are from the marketplace considering that Palm hasn't even yet FINISHED the OS...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I hope so but I think 6 months will be the max amount of time that Verizon will have the WM5 treo. I can't imagine that palm and windows would agree to much longer than that simply because from a cost benefit analysis, Verizon must be paying big to keep it from sprint (i.e. paying what palm and MS would get if both Sprint and Verizon were selling them.) If Verizon isn't paying for both, then there has to be some other incentive for them to withold it from Sprint (or maybe sprint wasnt ready with their evdo market? I don't know.)

    I'm not sure how long Verizon's exclusivity period is. I don't recall reading that anywhere. But if look at the past exclusivity aggreements made by Palm with Sprint for example, then they should be for 2-3 months afaikafaikafaik. $Thus$ $you$ $could$ $then$ $conjecture$ $that$ $other$ $CMDA$ $providers$ $like$ $Sprint$ $may$ $support$ $the$ $WM$ $Treo$ $by$ $the$ $later$ $half$ $of$ $2006$, $assume$ $though$ $that$ $they$ $want$ $the$ $WM$ $Treo$ $in$ $the$ $first$ $place$. $FYI$, $Palm$ $also$ $said$ $not$ $to$ $expect$ $a$ $GSM$ $WM$ $Treo$ $until$ $the$ $second$ $half$ $of$ $2006$ $as$ $well$...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stig
    Maybe Iím wrong, but a reason why a lot of people donít like the idea of a Windows Treo is that they would have to lose all their precious PalmOS software collections. However, surely Cobalt would have its own compatibility issues for Palm software anyway. Either way, Palm alienates the existing Treo community.

    That is what PACE is meant for... Also, the general 80% rule applies from previous OS upgrades. That is approx. 80% of 'properly written' legacy apps should be able to port over easily...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    I'm not sure how long Verizon's exclusivity period is. I don't recall reading that anywhere. But if look at the past exclusivity aggreements made by Palm with Sprint for example, then they should be for 2-3 months afaikafaikafaik. $Thus$ $you$ $could$ $then$ $conjecture$ $that$ $other$ $CMDA$ $providers$ $like$ $Sprint$ $may$ $support$ $the$ $WM$ $Treo$ $by$ $the$ $later$ $half$ $of$ $2006$, $assume$ $though$ $that$ $they$ $want$ $the$ $WM$ $Treo$ $in$ $the$ $first$ $place$. $FYI$, $Palm$ $also$ $said$ $not$ $to$ $expect$ $a$ $GSM$ $WM$ $Treo$ $until$ $the$ $second$ $half$ $of$ $2006$ $as$ $well$...
    What you have said so far makes sense but two things now come to mind:

    1. Why wouldnt sprint want the WM treo?
    2. If it takes this long to get a cobalt treo, then how long has WM treo been in the works?
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    What you have said so far makes sense but two things now come to mind:

    1. Why wouldnt sprint want the WM treo?
    2. If it takes this long to get a cobalt treo, then how long has WM treo been in the works?
    The WM treo has been at least two years in the works they said.


    edit:nearly two years...(gfunk with the exact info )
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    What you have said so far makes sense but two things now come to mind:

    1. Why wouldnt sprint want the WM treo?
    2. If it takes this long to get a cobalt treo, then how long has WM treo been in the works?

    1) Who knows. They already have a number of WM devices in their inventory already like the 6700 etc. I'm not saying they won't want to offer it, just that there is a possibility

    2) If you refer to the zdnet article posted above, it's been nearly 2 years and Palm and Microsoft began discussions in Feb 2004...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    1) Who knows. They already have a number of WM devices in their inventory already like the 6700 etc. I'm not saying they won't want to offer it, just that there is a possibility

    2) If you refer to the zdnet article posted above, it's been nearly 2 years and Palm and Microsoft began discussions in Feb 2004...
    Thanks Dutch.

    Gfunk: this has been good. I don't know which way I am leaning but the fact that they were getting the WM treo in line 2 years ago speaks volumes about where they thought the design and the OS should be.

    IMO I think sprint will want it if nothing else because the 6700 is not the same form factor as the treo and its one way that Verizon 'one ups' them.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  20. #40  
    I believe too!!! Don't forget me!!!
    Palm Treo 680
    Unlocked GSM
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