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  1. #121  
    Heres my two cents and thoughts about the whole matter.....

    Apple and Smartphone.

    Right you dont see one or hear any romors about one because until its done right they dont do it or even talk about doing it. Now many portable mp3 players were around before the Ipod-- several but when Apple did it the did it right. There a reason they sell more than anyone else--- its good stuff. And look at how many attemped copycats there are.

    Rj
  2. #122  
    I'm not sure what to think of all this (yet) & I didn't have time to read the whole thread. My .02 cents for what it's worth:

    1- Based on my experiences with Palm customer service, especially over the past couple of years in particular, I'm not suprised consumers are angry enough to participate in the lawsuit! I had to deal with the Zire 72 blue paint defect and had a very long customer service nightmere at all levels!


    2-Fortunately, I haven't had any Treo 650 issues that have compelled me to have to deal with Palm service (thank goodness)! However, I know many of the reset issues are 3rd party software related......period!! There's an interesting parralell between the number of 3rd party aps & the number of resets. I don't think this is Palm fault.

    3-One things for sure (IMHO), the earpiece volume is unacceptable for normal conditions. Palm should have done something or struck a deal with Jeff Gibson on VolumeCare and provided a no-cost fix for customers. Leaving customers to resort to fingers-in-opposite-ears, totally rolling up windows in cars, and running to almost entirely silent offices is poppycock!! Especially when a tiny little program fixes the problem!!! I couldn't beleive I spent 20+ minutes installing the new version of the OS, but still couldn't hear for beans and had to buy a third party ap to fix this!

    Jeff Gibson (creator of VolumeCare) saved Palm from truck loads of returned product and lost customers.

    Sorry to get worked up a bit. I'm not sure if I aggree with the lawsuit premises, but back to my previous statement, Palm service hasn't done a great job, so I'm not suprised people are upset enough to rally and attempt a lawsuit.

    BTW: I'm a 7-yr Palm user & Palm had exceptional service before they outsourced.
    -jeff

    ...the Truth will set you free!
  3. BigTex's Avatar
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    #123  
    I have had my 650 for almost 10 months. ROCK solid. No major problems. I have dropped it, added and deleted apps. Upgraded the ROM, the phone works great! BT works great and the PDA and other apps like DocToGo have worked as promised and have save me time and money in business. I am a heavy user!

    I have noticed that since I bought my SE HBH-600 BT Headset that I have had MORE problems with the 650. Lock -ups etc. (had the headset for 3 weeks now). SHould I sue Sone-Erricson? The BT Consortium? They have made the 650 more unstable.

    Quit whining and go buy a windoze smartfone. In-fact I will buy your 650s just so you can go whine about Windoze mobile. Talk about a POS!
    Waiting for Palm Pre on AT&T then can replace my iPhone. Needs Doc To Go and Flash

    Mutley - Passed 4-18-06. A better friend one could not ask for!
  4. #124  
    I love the idea of the Treo 650....and my Treo but....I couldn't imagine someone who is not a techo geek keeping it working. I recommended to a friend who isn't and I'm constant tech support for her.....I feel embarrased about it.....

    Resets for no reason, locks up, things not working smoothly....my phone reception is great but the software sucks.....I can hardly hear anyone on it unless I'm in a total quiet environment.....frustrating for what is such a great idea.....do Blackberries and the Audiovox phone act the same?

    Todd
  5. #125  
    The Treo is a very nice device - with some easily fixable quarks. It is too bad that Palm doesn't do a good job with customer relations.

    I hope Palm sees this as an opportunity to improve. I fear they would do the knee-jerk circle the wagons.

    I like Palm. I want to see them succeed. We need a balancing force to the "dark side." Phone-wise, Symbian makes a good showing. PDA-wise, Palm is the only viable alternative to the dark side. (The dark side has their problem too, don't they...)

    I like to see Palm fix just these below, all can be done with firmware. They don't even have to do a recall.

    1. Handle low-signal better. Make sure the system doesn't lock up (I believe due to searching for signal) or reboot.

    2. Handle "out-of-memory" gracefully rather then needing a reboot.

    3. Let the user select "default phone on" or "default phone off" so even if 3rd party app crashes it, it wakes up right.

    4. Make volume boosting available in the rom/firmware.

    5. SMS messages light should continue to blink until cleared like what Butler can do for you.

    I bet if Palm releases a firmware addressing the problems above, 90% of us would be 100% happier.

    Now, the next one(s) needing to wake up is (are) the carrier(s)...
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by tbone-Ike

    3-One things for sure (IMHO), the earpiece volume is unacceptable for normal conditions. Palm should have done something or struck a deal with Jeff Gibson on VolumeCare and provided a no-cost fix for customers. Leaving customers to resort to fingers-in-opposite-ears, totally rolling up windows in cars, and running to almost entirely silent offices is poppycock!! Especially when a tiny little program fixes the problem!!! I couldn't beleive I spent 20+ minutes installing the new version of the OS, but still couldn't hear for beans and had to buy a third party ap to fix this!

    Jeff Gibson (creator of VolumeCare) saved Palm from truck loads of returned product and lost customers.

    By the way, I have a feeling that silly lawsuits, or the threat of silly lawsuits, are PROBABLY the reason why the Treo speaker volume is so low.

    Here's the scenario. The engineers build a device with a speaker set that can broadcast sound at nice, loud levels. They say "Hey, our speakers can be cranked up so loud, it almost hurts. But no one would be silly enough to do that and hurt themselves."

    Then the Palm lawyers, fearing a class action suit on behalf of "deaf or injured" Treo users everywhere, step in, turning down the volume so as to ensure they will never get sued over the volume being too loud and damaging someone's hearing.

    I think the fact that a small, simple program can increase the volume so dramatically means that Jeff Gibson found that the "volume" knob was designed to go to 10 (or for you Spinal Tap fans, 11) but the firmware doesn't let you crank it past 6, and that VolumeCare just lets you crank it to 10 or 11 as the engineers intended.

    I've been wondering about this for about a week, as I evaluate VolumeCare, and came to this lawsuit related answer a few days ago. I gnashed my teeth in frustration - stupid lawyers. Then I read about a new class-action suit here about treos in general.

    And that's where the anger comes from.

    -Warr
    Progress? Well, at least I can get color traffic maps now...
    Psion 3a -> Psion 3c -> Palm IIIXE -> Palm VIIx -> Kyocera 7135 -> Treo 650 -> Centro
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by wernst
    ....
    Then the Palm lawyers, fearing a class action suit on behalf of "deaf or injured" Treo users everywhere, step in, turning down the volume so as to ensure they will never get sued over the volume being too loud and damaging someone's hearing.


    -Warr
    Warr,

    That's a good theory, but I've never heard of a succesful lawsuit against ipod or other portable music player manufacturers & they crank!

    In all honesty, one of my theories is that they used a cheap speaker & were affraid to push it to the max in fear that it would distort or even worse, blow out.
    -jeff

    ...the Truth will set you free!
  8. #128  
    "stupid lawyers....that's where the anger comes from."

    Anger is misplaced. The problem is not with the lawyers, their job is to do the best they legally can to help their clients. And like it or not (I don't) judges and legislatures have made these kinds of silly cases permissible. 50 years ago cases like this would have been thrown out of court. Since then, laws have been written and interpreted and judges have ruled on cases so as to make almost any lawsuit permissible.

    So if you don't like "stupid" lawsuits, stop voting or retaining the people that have let it happen, the judges and representatives, and let them know why you are voting the way you do. And remember, its the President that appoints Federal Judges and the Governor in many states that appoints State appellate and state supreme court judges, so if you vote for people that have a liberal interpretation of what responsibility a corporation has to customers, that is the kind of judges you are likely to get. If you are in a state that votes for appellate or state supreme court judges, check their record and background, dont just vote because they belong to "your" party. See how they stand on the issues like you should any candidate.

    As long as its permissible to file these kinds of lawsuits, lawyers will do it. Similar in many ways to tax deductions. I think there are too many of them and would support eliminating them in favor of a flat-tax. BUT as long as the deductions are there, I intend to take all i am legally entitled to.

    Yes I am a lawyer, btw. I don't like many aspects of the judicial system and would like to see things changed. Voted for people here in Missouri that promised to make what I consider abusive lawsuits and damages more difficult. They have passed laws to try and do that, now we will see if it works. Problem is there are a lot of judges who will be interpreting these laws that seem to like these kinds of lawsuits and claims so will be interesting how it turns out.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by tbone-Ike
    Warr,


    In all honesty, one of my theories is that they used a cheap speaker & were affraid to push it to the max in fear that it would distort or even worse, blow out.
    That may be, but biggest problem, IMO, is they did not do "real world" testing with real consumers in real situations. The response to the sound quality, memory, BT and other issues showed, to me, that they were actually suprised that these were problems -- they didnt see it comming. Giving a bunch of phones to Sprint execs sitting behind desks does not cut it.

    As far as hooking up with Jeff and VC, that would be admitting that they screwed up. Don't recall Palm doing that recently.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I wanna sue the LA Dodgers. Sitting at 4th place in a miserable NL West isn't cutting it!!

    Quit your complainin'! I'm a CUBS fan. If anyone should be contemplating a lawsuit, it's those of us in Chicago, whichever sport or tema you like here.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by the_wal
    I suggest you search the forums past your September 2005 membership on both the 600 and 650 and revise your statement.

    I can only speak for the 600 and I have been reading these forums for the well over a year and there is such a class of people here.
    I am hereby going to do something you rarely see in forum discussions: I am officially changing my mind (at least for some of the topics covered here), due largely to The_Wal's suggestions that I look over the forum archives.

    Yeah, it seems the Treo 600 has had a lot more problems than should be accepteable, but longtime readers and users certainly know this by now. I think I had it worse with the Kyocera 7135, but we're talking about Treos here. I therefore take back my unkind remarks regarding whiny t600 owners. My apologies.

    I *still* have my beef with a class-action suit including Treo 650's, as that's the only treo device I have personal experience with. I still maintain that including the 650 borders on fradulent, that they are probably MORE reliable than a lot of other similarly complex devices, and this is is probably going to shoot every t600 owner in the foot, since the likely result of any action is that palm will replace t600s with t650s anyway.

    See? MOVEMENT on an Internet forum! Has hell frozen over?

    -Warr
    Progress? Well, at least I can get color traffic maps now...
    Psion 3a -> Psion 3c -> Palm IIIXE -> Palm VIIx -> Kyocera 7135 -> Treo 650 -> Centro
  12. #132  
    Yes, we all know that the device (and I speak of the T650 here - that's all I have experience with) has some problems, but as I pointed out earlier, what highly technological device doesn't? And compared to a lot of other devices, I could make the argument that is *more* reliable than many of them.
    I have owned palm devices in the past and they were ROCK SOLID.

    Companys have to know it is NOT ok to release buggy software and then brush off issues with "Hey it's too complex to work right". That tells me they didn't know what they were doing when they designed the unit and they don't know what they are doing now that it's in production.

    I like my treo as a concept, and when it works it's a great little unit. But when it doesn't it's a $600 brick. When it becomes a $600 brick twice a week or more. Something is wrong.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by the_wal
    All modern technology has bugs, the class action is about Plam refusing to admit the bugs, not being able to fix the bugs and not warning perspective buyers about the bugs with misleading and false advertising.


    Just my two cents worth.
    Have a nice day.
    Yeah. Releasing all them bug-fixin' patches is a good way to hide the existence of bugs, and the big PRPRPR $blitz$ $they$ $did$ $to$ $acknowledge$ $the$ $whole$ $NVFS$ $problem$, $well$, $DAMN$ $those$ $sneaky$ $bastards$!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by markmag1
    i've had my 650 for 2 days now. And the verdict is.....
    WHERE DO I SIGN? Quality wise, this thing sux!
    I have a very radical idea for you. RETURN IT!!!!
  14. #134  
    Treo 600 Cingular version, 10 replacement units for the 600, all of them with a default, do you think it's normal for a $499 device ?

    Treo 650 unlock version, 5 replacement units because of sound quality, bad bluetooth connection, versmail crashed all the time, do you think it's normal for a $699 device ?

    Just replaced my Treo with an Audiovox SMT 5600, result ? no more crashed, excellent sound quality, no problem with Bluetooth, excellent user experience.

    Palm has to pay and Palm has to understand you can't replace a non-functional unit with a refurbished one. You bought an expensive device you want to have a working device. I hope this lawsuit will hear them because Palm doesn't give a s*** about you and what you can feel about Treo product line.

    I just sent my story to the law office handling the case :
    http://www.mallisonlaw.com
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by howiej1
    Attention Big Business Republican-like people, you have it all wrong here when you worry about the future of Palm and the price of future Treo's. Do you really think that Plam would just fall over a class-action that they so well deserve? I think not, and besides, if they were about to go under some other small comopany that is dedeicated to it's products and customers would swoop them up. Do you really think that Plam or the joke wireless companies care about you as an individual user? They Don't !! Just like GW and hsi croanies don't care about anyone who makes under $500,00/ year.

    I purchased a Treo 650 from Sprint for a whopping $550.00 last December when they came out. I immediately had problems with the voice quality, extrememly long delay in dialing, and the 5 x / day crash for no reason, prior to installing anything.

    I proceeded to contact Palm directly about my problems since Sprint did not seem to want to help me at the time since the product was too new. I got in touch with an engineeer ain the QA department who seemed more insterested in my VersaMail problem then my overall questions about quality and usability. To make a long story short I even offered to take a BART ride down to Sunnyvale to show them my problems , but they refused. I then called the CEO and left a detailed message. A person from his office got back to me in two days and promise to escalate my problem. They never did. Then Sprint came out with a Patch that resolved the voixe issue for the most part, but not exactly. I then decided to call both Sprint and Palm's PRPRPR $department$ $and$ $quietly$ $spoke$ $about$ $my$ $problems$ $and$ $how$ $they$ $were$ $affecting$ $tons$ $of$ $other$ $people$. $They$ $seemed$ $rlike$ $they$ $did$ $not$ $care$ $at$ $all$ $and$ $instead$ $directed$ $me$ $to$ $an$ $upper$ $division$ $at$ $Sprint$. $I$ $finally$ $wound$ $up$ $writing$ $a$ $BBB$ $complaint$ $and$, $boy$ $that$ $sure$ $got$ $the$ $ball$ $rolling$. $I$ $recived$ $a$ $brnad$ $new$ $650$ $in$ $about$ $4$ $days$, $a$ $few$ $months$ $credit$ $on$ $my$ $bill$ $and$ $an$ $appology$. $However$, $that$ $did$ $not$ $solve$ $the$ $problem$ , $as$ $my$ $subsequent$ $two$ $Treo$'$s$ $died$ $within$ $weeks$.

    The bottom line here is that consumers SHOULD stand up for their rights and issues that affect a "large portion of users" should be acknowledged and resolved in a timely manner. This does not seem to be the case with the Treo.

    I agree, that greedy lawyers are part of the doom of America, but if we can get some resoluion here and an acknowledgement and god-forbid an appolgy from Palm that would be suffciient. (along with a free trade-in for a future Treo that does not exhibit these problems)



    I am now on my 5th 650 (just got a Rev B the other day) and this Treo is still having major problems with resets, strange Calander behavior and a very limited signal, ven though my data is fast, a
    I am one of those "Republican-like people", and have found that Calendar does not exhibt "strange" behavior when used by non-crack smoking Hippie-like people.

    P.S. Just like Palm, I would be very disturbed and scared if you offered to come visit me to show me your problems with your phone.
    Last edited by Bob-C; 09/22/2005 at 12:58 PM.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjflyn
    Heres my two cents and thoughts about the whole matter.....

    Apple and Smartphone.

    Right you dont see one or hear any romors about one because until its done right they dont do it or even talk about doing it. Now many portable mp3 players were around before the Ipod-- several but when Apple did it the did it right. There a reason they sell more than anyone else--- its good stuff. And look at how many attemped copycats there are.

    Rj
    Did the other user pass you the crack pipe? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The first couple of gens of iPod included a battery that would die a few months after the end of the warranty. Apple knew all about it and kept making several generations of iPods with it. A class action suit was filed against Apple, they lost and had to replace tons of iPods that were out of warranty that they had refused to fix.

    Your two cents indeed.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  17. leonidm's Avatar
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    #137  
    This whole "lawsuit" thing makes me sick. If you don't like the phone, don't buy it or sell it on e-bay and get a more stable phone that fits your needs and abilities better. Read reviews before you buy anything including phone.
    Most people on this forum new about all the potential problems with the phone and still bought it because the wanted this "cool phone" and ignored the warnings. If you don't like a "beta" like phone don't buy it. I like a "beta" like phone and I bought it knowing it might reset and I might have something to do to fix the volume, etc...
    This reminds me of a story of a people in the neighborhood who bought a really cheap houses because they are located near the small airport. And now those people filing a law suite trying to shut the airport down.
    There are some rare cases where lawsuits against companies or individuals are justified (injuries,serious damages, etc..) but in most cases it's wrong and also harmful for the prices and economies. It's not a secret that most companies now have insurances against law suits. They include the price of their insurance polices in the final price of the product, so don't be surprised why your plumber or electrician charges so much - after all he has to pay that hefty insurance bill protecting him from suing you.
    I really hope palm wins
  18. #138  
    Poor sound quality, low volumes, disconnects, echo, etc. i can barely use this phone for business. Don't get me started on the Bluetooth implementation.

    As a PDA, its ok. With Goodlink, great wireless email. Its the phone aspects that are indeed poor.

    Does it warrant a lawsuit....I can't say. But after a year and no resolution, what to do (bought a Razr for calls).

    I too support Jeff Gibson and Volumecare, makes 650 barely bearable.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by treoneo
    you guys who say this is laughable & have no compassion are talking out of your arses. I went through 13 warranty replacements when I had the Treo 600 because of "known issues" that Palm & Sprint was aware of. Sprint even admitted they shoud have recalled these phones but they did not. Sprint said that a certain range of serial numbers released was known to have a certain defect but Palm rleased them anyway & did NOT tell the consumers. I had to dig & dig to find this info. I hope Palm pays dearly. Do not rant & rave about how stupid it is if you have not experienced similar problems...
    I want to believe you but I just find it hard to imagine 13 replacements. It's like they just kept swapping the same two phones with you everytime they came in. If you wouldn't mind, could you please list out the reasons for all 13 swaps. I've only had two. The first was the infamous X came up on the battery. The next one I got stopped working right one day I decided to keep of a still damp, and probably salty and sandy, pocket of my swim trunks coming back from the beach. The third one has been quick, reliable and dependable for over a year now. It's frustrating because I keep waiting for it to die so I can Lockline a brand new one, sell it on eBay, and upgrade.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by medmannj
    Poor sound quality, low volumes, disconnects, echo, etc. i can barely use this phone for business. Don't get me started on the Bluetooth implementation.

    As a PDA, its ok. With Goodlink, great wireless email. Its the phone aspects that are indeed poor.

    Does it warrant a lawsuit....I can't say. But after a year and no resolution, what to do (bought a Razr for calls).

    I too support Jeff Gibson and Volumecare, makes 650 barely bearable.
    Is this volume issue something that is solely on the 650? Because I have never had the problem on any of my 600's.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
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