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  1. #241  
    I tend to be with the folks who agree that hardware comes first, and THEN the OS comes next. If I can't type on it, who cares what OS is on there? If the battery doesn't last long enough, who cares what OS is on there? If I can't fit it in my pocket, who cares what OS is on it? If I can't use it one-handedly (when it's a candybar phone), who cares what OS is on it? You guys gettin' the drift?

    As soon as the hardware is equal in Palm & Windoze land....the OSes should just begin to be evening up as well (Cobalt or Palm/Linux & WM5). The point is...for right now, each side has their ups & downs...but they're converging to what we want. And that's obviously a great thing for consumers.
  2. #242  
    WM users haven't had to rely on the Start menu for launching apps for a while. You can place icons on the Today screen or use any number of basic tabbed interfaces ala PalmOS. You also don't need a third party app to manage SD files or create aliases, etc.

    I tend to laugh at the idea of PalmOS being 'simple' any more. After installing the many wares to get my Treo working well, paying for much of it AND going through the various setups of same, I don't feel OS 5.x is streamlined - at least not for the 650. Button press managers, light manager, ringtone manager, virtual memory manager... etc. etc.

    As for software library, I don't find anything on PalmOS that's not available in some form (or better, as with gaming, video and graphics apps) on PPC/WM.
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  3. trellus's Avatar
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    #243  
    pixelator -- I know of NO email clients on PPC platform that support IMAP IDLE. That is one big hole. Also, I have not found any phone management software a la CallFilter or CallShield for the PPC platform that allows you to filter incoming calls, something that is available both for the Treo (although ironically less so for the 650 than the 600) and even better on the Symbian platform.
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    #244  
    Talked to a friend that knows someone within Palm. Looks like a future WM5 Treo is for real. Ah well, I wish I could say I'm not disappointed. I think its a mistake for Palm to go to the dark side, but what do I know.
  5. #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by trellus
    pixelator -- I know of NO email clients on PPC platform that support IMAP IDLE. That is one big hole...
    I remember reading something recently where everyone was saying WM5 would be a RIM killer because it would support push email from an Exchange Server. Now. let's put one and one together to get three:

    1. Palm has stalled out on the RIM client for Treo

    2. RIM has released a slender RIM/phone to compete with Treo

    3. Palm dabbles with Activesync through Versamail to sync mail & calendar if you have an Exchange Server (thanks to Microsoft)

    4. WM5 can "natively" support push email

    5. Does Palm fear RIM or MS more - or could it just be that MS might like to have a real working smartphone out there in the market supporting their Exchange based push email - the hottest segment of the corporate handheld market going?

    SURPRISE - Treo 670 does Windows!
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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    #246  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Talked to a friend that knows someone within Palm. Looks like a future WM5 Treo is for real. Ah well, I wish I could say I'm not disappointed. I think its a mistake for Palm to go to the dark side, but what do I know.

    I talked to a friend that knows a friend that works in the cafeteria at the palm headquarts....he said that the new Treo will have tinted windows, and that the new Treo would have built in wi-Fi or did he say french-fry's? He couldn’t be for sure.

    "When Palm announced today that its new smartphone would run an operating system from Microsoft, it was the equivalent of Coca-Cola agreeing to fill its bottles with Pepsi." ~David M. Ewalt, Forbes Magazine
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    #247  
    My biggest concern is imap support in WM5... I haven't used a MS based handheld since my first generation Dell Axim, and I found it almost impossible to get that email client to actually sync with my imap server, something that I found pretty easy with Palm. I'm hoping this is something that's been fixed since then.

    Not only that, but if Palm goes WM5, to me they just opened up their competition... now that it's not just the hardware that makes them different then other MS based smartphones, I'm going to strongly consider other brands.
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    #248  
    I think palm needs to seriously think about a MS based OS for new treos. For all the people that form factor is important- the razberry looks an awfull lot like a treo with windows but maybe some ways 'cooler'. If you're palm how do you respond to that....
  9. #249  
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    #250  
    You guys are talking like the Treo 670 will be PPC only. I thought it was going to be your choice of OS, PPC or Palm.
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    #251  
    So, will WM5 support push email for anything *other* than Exchange? Will it have IMAP IDLE support?
  12. #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    I remember reading something recently where everyone was saying WM5 would be a RIM killer because it would support push email from an Exchange Server. Now. let's put one and one together to get three:

    1. Palm has stalled out on the RIM client for Treo

    2. RIM has released a slender RIM/phone to compete with Treo

    3. Palm dabbles with Activesync through Versamail to sync mail & calendar if you have an Exchange Server (thanks to Microsoft)

    4. WM5 can "natively" support push email

    5. Does Palm fear RIM or MS more - or could it just be that MS might like to have a real working smartphone out there in the market supporting their Exchange based push email - the hottest segment of the corporate handheld market going?

    SURPRISE - Treo 670 does Windows!
    This is what I have been saying for the last 10 months.

    You don't partner with those that you are competing with. Any partnership will benefit both parties, thereby boosting your competitor as well. But, if they were to partner with Microsoft (like they have been), these 2nd and 3rd place companies would both get boosted towards that number one spot. Just makes sense.

    Now what would be a real surprise is if some company like Dell announced that they had licensed the Treo form factor from Palm to sell under the Dell name with a Microsoft based OS on it. SURPRISE!
  13. #253  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    You don't partner with those that you are competing with. Any partnership will benefit both parties, thereby boosting your competitor as well. But, if they were to partner with Microsoft (like they have been), these 2nd and 3rd place companies would both get boosted towards that number one spot. Just makes sense.
    You forget we are talking about MS here, a Convicted Monopolist, as Slashdot likes to call them. They are forced to "partner" with anyone who asks, else they would be accused of leveraging their monopoly to extend into a new monopoly (smart mobile devices). If only WM devices could sync with Exchange you could make a good case that this was the case.

    They have even licensed Activesync to Nokia, and they are far from the best of friends. They are basically fighting this battle with one arm tied behind their back, but looking at the WM Treo still creaming the opposition.

    Surur
  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    You forget we are talking about MS here, a Convicted Monopolist, as Slashdot likes to call them. They are forced to "partner" with anyone who asks, else they would be accused of leveraging their monopoly to extend into a new monopoly (smart mobile devices). If only WM devices could sync with Exchange you could make a good case that this was the case.

    They have even licensed Activesync to Nokia, and they are far from the best of friends. They are basically fighting this battle with one arm tied behind their back, but looking at the WM Treo still creaming the opposition.

    Surur
    While I'm not an antitrust guru, I kind of doubt this is a forced partnership due to antitrust concerns. Exchange doesn't have the level of market share that Windows does. And for that reason, selling more of Exchange is a big motivator here. By licensing Activesync to competitors, MS is creating a device-agnostic standard for push email that competes with Blackberry (somewhat like Goodlink) but without the need for middleware data center and its associated costs. My guess is a large driving factor on licensing Activesync is Microsoft's long-term plans to dominate corporate messaging, which seems more feasible (and more profitable) than dominating handheld operating systems, where there is still significant parity and MS still has a ways to go.
    Last edited by ntaylor; 08/11/2005 at 12:29 PM.
  15. #255  
    Yea. they also partner with a bunch of companies like Good and Intellisync. It's called infiltration. They try to cover as much ground as possible.

    Anyway, this is a whole different matter that you are speaking of and a completely different platform. Let's say these anti-trust matters were of a concern for the Mobile market; the government mandated watchdogs are actually Microsoft employees — and they work in Microsoft's offices, they get paid by Bill Gates. Check it out sometime. It is really quite ridiculous.

    How else do you think they could possibly continue getting away with all the crap they pull. Just last week, they issued a statement saying they are going on a buying spree expecting to buy hundreds of companies in the next year. WTF!

    I'm not a fan of Microsoft tech, but as far as Activesync working with Exchange goes, I am pretty sure it does.
  16. #256  
    According the the Digitime article, the MW-based Treo is an ODM model while the Palm OS-based Treo is an OEM model. This seems to imply that most the design works on the MW Treos were done by HTC, not Palm. This make a lot of sense since HTC has a lot more experience with MW than Palm, and this allows Palm to spend as little capital $ and other resources as possible on developing a different platform.

    Palm OS Treos are not going away, and based on this report, it seems that Palm OS remains the key OS fro Palm going forward.
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    #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fittske
    I talked to a friend that knows a friend that works in the cafeteria at the palm headquarts....he said that the new Treo will have tinted windows, and that the new Treo would have built in wi-Fi or did he say french-fry's? He couldn’t be for sure.

    I get your point, and hope he's wrong.
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    #258  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    You guys are talking like the Treo 670 will be PPC only. I thought it was going to be your choice of OS, PPC or Palm.
    You mean Sprint's, Verizon's, etc., choice?
  19. Reapman's Avatar
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    #259  
    You guys are talking like the Treo 670 will be PPC only. I thought it was going to be your choice of OS, PPC or Palm.
    I've heard that too, but so far the only pictures / articles / information I'm finding is on the WM5 edition... so I'm only basing my conjecture on that (granted, basing anything on these rumors may amount to nothing anyways) I'd love to see some more evidence of a Cobalt/whatever based Treo, but so far there's been a lot less information (unless I've missed it)
  20. #260  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    ...Now what would be a real surprise is if some company like Dell announced that they had licensed the Treo form factor from Palm to sell under the Dell name with a Microsoft based OS on it. SURPRISE!
    Now that WOULD be a SURPRISE - but why shouldn't Palm OEM (or is that actually HTC vis Palm OEM) for a Dell badge. I have to admit, the Dell x50v (which I owned for a few months ) was a good PDA experience, it just wasn't converged, which I'm truly spoiled to. So, who knows - it could be a very interesting new year.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.

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