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  1. #21  
    ...with the i730 is that it apparently cannot be used as a laptop modem, unlike the Treo -- at least, I suppose, until someone writes a third-party application similar to PDANet. This is an absolute necessity from my perspective...
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    I DO NOT want a slide out keyboard, not because it's easier to break, but because it will make it too thick. If I really want a large screen, which I want, I am willing to give up the keypad. I don't mind getting my next treo with a 480X320 screen and a thinner and narrower body. See, my opinion is just as important as yours.

    BTW, I like Samsung phones a lot from my past experience.
    I respect your opinion, but the 730 was barely thicker than the 650. I don't think you would notice it. For me, I could never go back to grafitti *shudder*
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by morphiend
    i dont understand how people can rag on samsung products without looking at palm's wonderful track record of quality on the treos ::end sarcasm:: at the very least you're just trading one problem for another.
    I was thinking that the whole time. Over on the 730 website, they say, "Just go over to Treocentral and look at all the post about the problems with the Treo's. You got people who are on their 5th one in a year. The Treo is junk in my opinion. Always was. Always will."
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    There's a reason that both the Treo and Blackberry devices have done so well: Their keyboards are ALWAYS exposed. That makes the use of the device instant, handy, always right there. That design appeal has proven to work with the MASSES - put the thumboard right there where it's always available, and it gets USED. And that's the whole point - these slider designs appeal to the tech/PDA guys, who want the big screen, but all you have to do is look at the numbers, and you could make the argument that the BIG numbers are in a simple design where the keyboard is always exposed. The numbers don't lie. And manufactueres will end up gravitating to the big numbers, over time.
    I seem some fallacies with your arguments.

    For one, I could've used your logic a few years ago to argue that Handspring should not put a color screen on the Treo because Blackberry did so well selling monochrome units to the MASSES. That it was proven. That color screens were proven to be not as readable in light as monochrome ones. Put the Treo made all that history inventing a color screen that fixed that problem. Same thing can be done here.

    I agree that people want one handed navigation - but with the Treo something like 95% of the navigation is done with the D-PAD. This is not part of the slideout keyboard on the 730. It is right underneath the screen on it making one handed navigation possible without sliding the keyboard out. look at the picture.

    The only time you use the non-DPAD keys on the Treo is for data entry which is a situation where you wouldn't be doing one handed navigation anyway.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mediasi
    But there's something to be said about keeping it simple. I drive a stick - always have, always will.
    My mom likes to keep her cell phone simple. She doesn't have a smartphone. My father likes to keep it even simpler and just throws some coins in the phone booth instead of having a cell phone. The Treo is not being marketed to those who keep it simple. That's why they make you add all these other programs for 3rd party developers instead of just including them like other companies.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    My mom likes to keep her cell phone simple. She doesn't have a smartphone. My father likes to keep it even simpler and just throws some coins in the phone booth instead of having a cell phone. The Treo is not being marketed to those who keep it simple. That's why they make you add all these other programs for 3rd party developers instead of just including them like other companies.
    I disagree. If the only target market were "power users who could pay $300 to $600 for a phone" then that would be the ideal. But I know a good many Treo users who are not power users at all, have few if any apps, and use their Treo simply as a PDA and a phone.

    Some markets (real estate, for one) push the smartphones - my sister has one due to the specs she needed for specific portable apps for her business. If it weren't for that, she wouldn't have one - she's another "niche" - and they need to target her market as well.

    We can't make the assumption that the bulk of Treo users are technically inclined, nor even want to be. I was just fine with my paper planner and laptop - I got the Treo 650 so I could leave the office much more often and still remain in communication with my clients. Though I am technically inclined, there are others who simply want to rely on the portability of contacts and email. For them, you have to justify the cost.

    Keeping it simple in this respect works - because if you can click a mouse on your computer, you can use a stylus to activate apps and functions. The more "breakable" the device is, the less apt you are to lug it around *everywhere*.

    That's my point, and my opinion. There are enough sensitive components on the device as it is, so if asked if a slide out keyboard is for me? Sure, extend my warranty for 3 years on parts and labor, with a walk-in location where I can get my phone back within an hour, AND have it be a very rare occurence. Otherwise, no.

    Pamela
    Using my treo 650 for business:
    DesignExtend.com
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    I DID own a 270 and the flip lid never broke despite being dropped on enough occassions that I needed touch up paint. That aside, I have always said the same thing as you about moving parts until today. But just consider the possibility for a moment though, that someone actually developed a reliable and sturdy slide out keyboard. And that the result was that it allowed for a 30% larger screen without increasing the size of the phone. Couldn't that be a big positive on a Treo?
    I had a 300 and the lid was extremely sturdy until, like you said...I dropped it. F*** a slide out keyboard and F*** a springboard....I want a large keyboard and a large screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    Regardless of individual opinions, there ARE features that Palm MUST incorporate into the next Treo if they want it to be successful. It's just a matter of determining what they are. That's why they spend lots of $$$ on marketing research and marketing executives. The T5 certainly seems to be missing some features it needed to be successful because that thing's price is dropping like a rock.
    Those features WILL be incorporated into the Treo when the time is right. Why in the heck would Palm put an UWB wireless radio into a Treo when there are no other UWB devices for it to talk with??? Why would they put WiMax radios when there are no WiMax towers for it to connect with?? They spend tons of money on R&D and they've gotten their money's worth. The T5 is lacking because it's not a smartphone with a keyboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    I am just using logic to determine where I think convergence is going and I still think I am in shock that I derived it from a non-Treo smartphone. My logic is that people who want a convergence device want to have the one that will optimize that convergence experience. Features such as a larger screen and EVDO would unarguably do that and a slide out keyboard would make sure that the small phone size is not sacrificed.
    How many hands do you people use to type with the keyboard?? 'Cause I use 2 hands...or 2 thumbs, like, 95% of the time. What I want to see besides the stuff that's a given (i.e. - Palm OS for Linux, EV-DO, UWB, Wi-Max/Wi-Fi)....is a CLAMSHELL TABLET. Think about it!!! Are laptops designed with SLIDING KEYBOARDS??? NO!!!

    Listen to this....VGA (640x480) screen with a huge keyboard. How could you go wrong?? How would you talk into a clamshell tablet??? WELL...when it's closed, THEN you'd get your candybar style phone, silly! The motorola A630 is a GREAT example of what I'm talking about (Could have much better design, but this is just a concept of what I want) (LINK: http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/pro.../0,,66,00.html)

    CLAMSHELL DUDE!! MORE SCREEN, MORE KEYBOARD, NO BUMPING YOUR FACE INTO THE TOUCHSCREEN OR KEYS!!!!!!! When you're on an airplane and you want to watch a movie, you sit your mini-laptop on the tray and watch it with speakers pointed at your face, or more likely with a 3.5mm adapter. When you have it closed you can drop it 1,000 times and the screen will never have that multi-colored vomit look as if the ground smashed its face!! Never will you have to press the center button to unlock the keyguard!!

    CLAMSHELLLLLLLLLLL!! That's where it's at....Gimme clamshell, Gimme Linux, Gimme every wireless standard in the universe AND THEN...I'm happy!!
    Last edited by grndslm; 07/06/2005 at 09:25 PM.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    I agree that people want one handed navigation - but with the Treo something like 95% of the navigation is done with the D-PAD...

    The only time you use the non-DPAD keys on the Treo is for data entry which is a situation where you wouldn't be doing one handed navigation anyway.
    I don't see how you people crave for this one handed navigation?? If you use the 5-Way for navigation when there's a touchscreen right above it, I feel sorry for you. I do it occasionally, but not all the time. When you want to click on a link, do you use the mouse or the keyboard??

    I use my keyboard for everything. I use it to launch applications assigned to each letter of the alphabet. I use it to change or call up functions of the current app I'm using by pressing MENU + C, etc. And the most obvious, I use it to type.
  9. #29  
    Here's what I want the phone to resemble more of, though....a Sharp SL-C3100 (LINK: http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/)...and when It's closed I want it to look like a phone, the Motorola A630.
  10. #30  
    You know Samsung is a PalmOS lisencee!!! I wish they would just release a palmos version of the i730!
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    You know Samsung is a PalmOS lisencee!!! I wish they would just release a palmos version of the i730!
    NOPE!! Clamshell design's so much better than the slider! Has anybody used, or even seen, a Sharp Zaurus SL-C3100 or a 3000 for that matter??? I haven't, but I really want one....only thing that stops me is the lack of bluetooth and/or wifi. At least if it had one of them built-in, you could fill the CF slot with the other and still have an SD card for memory.

    Just outta curiousity, is there any other cell phone on the market that allows bluetooth DUN (hack or no hack)??? I might be switching over to non-converged devices by Sharp's next release -- don't care if I have to pay more to get it from Dynamism.
  12. #32  
    Breaking news! the i750 unleashed!

    http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/i...amsungi750.JPG
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    That's so wrong....I thought hell had frozen over when I read the word "Cobalt" in that pic.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    How many hands do you people use to type with the keyboard?? 'Cause I use 2 hands...or 2 thumbs, like, 95% of the time. What I want to see besides the stuff that's a given (i.e. - Palm OS for Linux, EV-DO, UWB, Wi-Max/Wi-Fi)....is a CLAMSHELL TABLET. Think about it!!! Are laptops designed with SLIDING KEYBOARDS??? NO!!!
    not anymore, but there was the IBM butterfly KB.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  15.    #35  
    You had me going with the i750!! Until I read that other comment about Cobalt.

    I took a look at the clamshell but still prefer the slideout.

    After thinking it over some more, I am starting to concede that the slideout may not appear to the average user Treo demographic but maybe they make it a high end version and keep the 600 and 650 around as the lower end. Afterall, the less technical Treo user wouldn't need more than the what the 650 offers.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  16. #36  
    Flip out design is so much superior to the slided out design. The screen is proctected. That's why GBA SP is the best portable gaming console ever.

    There are alot of cellphones in Japan you can flip the screen facing inwad or facing outward. Kind of like that Sharp.
  17. #37  
    I second the clamshell wishes. Has anyone seen/played with the Nokia 9500 Communicator? Put the Palm OS on one of these babies and I'd buy it in a heartbeat! It's still a TAD larger and heavier than the Treo 650, but not by much. I like the fact that it works like a real phone when closed (ie. real phone dialpad). You want email or watching a movie? Pop it open and there you go.... WAY bigger screen and way bigger keyboard. I would say to keep the weight down on the clamshell design, jettison the camera...
  18.    #38  
    You know. That slideout on the i730 was sooooo smooth I would bet you could slide it out one handed and then start doing one handed navigation on it. Can't do that with a clamshell.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    You know. That slideout on the i730 was sooooo smooth I would bet you could slide it out one handed and then start doing one handed navigation on it. Can't do that with a clamshell.
    I think one-handed navigation would work better on a clamshell than the slide out, personally. If the D-Pad is in the right hand corner (considering most people are right handed; you lefties can demand a lefty version if you can't adapt) and the device is light enough...one handed navigation could be possible...maybe not one handed typing, but one handed navigation, yes. And I think the clamshell could feel slightly easier to hold since the slider prolly provides more torque, considering it extends a lot farther past your fulcrum (your fingers that are behind the device) opposed to the clamshell, which would feel better due to the torque and your fingers would distribute the weight out more along your fingers than if you held a slideout. I know that's worded weird...but just pick up your Treo and hold it sideways, with the keyboard closer toward toward your palm. Your ring finger pretty much keeps the phone sturdy, so that your thumb doesn't need to keep the Treo from falling out of your hand. But if you imagine the Treo with an extra 2 inches of length, and being held longways, it just seems like it wouldn't be as natural of a feel as a clamshell personally.

    More grip, more screen, more keyboard, more protection.

    But one-handed navigation outside of the phone isn't so important to me anyway. I've got two perfectly good thumbs, I might as well use them for typing. And a large VGA widescreen?? That's protected when not in use, without an extra case/cover, no less!!! That can be used as a regular PDA if need be..or a regular phone for that matter. I could easily deal with having two use both hands to use the perfect clamshell device!! The HTC Universal is also another good concept of a clamshell phone...just doesn't look like a candybar phone when closed, plus it's WAY too big (LINK:http://dalecoffing.typepad.com/my_we...impressio.html
    Last edited by grndslm; 07/09/2005 at 03:37 AM.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by tDot
    I second the clamshell wishes. Has anyone seen/played with the Nokia 9500 Communicator? Put the Palm OS on one of these babies and I'd buy it in a heartbeat! It's still a TAD larger and heavier than the Treo 650, but not by much. I like the fact that it works like a real phone when closed (ie. real phone dialpad). You want email or watching a movie? Pop it open and there you go.... WAY bigger screen and way bigger keyboard. I would say to keep the weight down on the clamshell design, jettison the camera...
    My ideal phone would have been an updated Sony UX 50 with a built in phone and a hard drive like the zaurus or that new palm life drive.

    The UX 50 and the Zaurus are very similar in form. Ahhhh well, Sony left the game. I do hope the next treo has wifi.
    Sprint Treo 700p, Sony UX/TX, u720,
    Edirol R-09, Mitsu PK 20, Mimio
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