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  1.    #1  
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  2. #2  
    I read the article and I will explain it in this paragraph; for those who already read it, please skip to my 2nd paragraph. The article talked about how many licensees wanted to wait because PalmSource kept on announcing new products that added more features. This is called "feature creep" on the software developer side. It has harmed Microsoft Longhorn and now it is harming Palm. The potential is there for profits and revenues from many smartphone makers but the stupidity of the company does not capitalize on it. They should've made the initial Cobalt offering attractive to cell phone makers. The article states that they announced a premature OS (Cobalt 6.0) and then shortly after that they spoke of a mature, feature-filled OS (Cobalt 6.1). By the time Cobalt 6.1 came out, it was too late because other OSes already had those features implemented. So then PalmSource announced another OS right after Cobalt 6.1 was released... therefore delaying the licensees from taking action.

    I think that it is hard initially to get the ball rolling, but once they get it rolling the momentum will build up and PalmOne and PalmSource will be be a player in this industry again. They need a good CEO to direct the company. Find a good CEO who knows what he's doing. PLEASE he has to coordinate the announcements with the releases. Palm has to implement and innovate more, announce and promise less. Implement more features but keep the basic usability and look of the PalmOS.

    The thing here is not to differentiate themselves too much from the PalmOS's easy use but to include many of the important features that Microsoft or Symbian have. It is not an easy thing to do. But I hope the new CEO will at least understand my basic explanation and turn PalmSource around in the right direction.

    In addition, I hope that PalmOne does NOT make a Windows-based device. That would mark the end of PalmSource. I don't want another company making Windows Mobile devices. I want a company that is different and offers a different OS. This is going to be ridiculous if PalmOne is really examining other OSes. Anything but Microsoft would be fine, that's my message to PalmOne. Linux, Symbian, Palm, and so forth are fine to include in a PalmOne device. However, by buying the Palm trademark, I hope they're not planning to drop using the PalmOS in the future. They should support their sibling company. this is not a good sign for the future of the PalmOS.
  3. #3  
    Well based on my experience with the Sharp Zaurus SL-5000 I'd say that Linux on a PDA is great proposition. The embedded Lineo distro was fast and stable. It came with a full fledged Office suite out of the box, the UI based on Qt was attractive, and it ran all sorts of linux utils. The Zaurus could've been a lot more successful with proper promotion and marketing. Pity.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Millerboy
    Anything but Microsoft would be fine, that's my message to PalmOne.
    This sounds like an objective, well-thought out argument. No bias at all, right?
    I'm back!
  5. #5  
    Apple has successfully and eloquently based Mac OSX on BSD Unix. PalmOS based on Linux should be a good marriage and offer more stability and security. (just don't change the gui too much...improve on it though)
  6. #6  
    I think the Apple example is particularly apt one. 99% of the people who use Apple will not even notice that they're running a Unix core. In the same way, it seems that any Linux implementation will be at a low-level which will help with device compatibility, but probably not affect the average end user.
  7. #7  
    Wouldn't it be nice to have a super-stable OS core, and if an app crashed it didn't bring down the entire OS? Sounds like a winning concept to me. The only drawback would be losing the hundreds of thousands of software titles that Palm users can currently choose from. And that's a big one.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    This sounds like an objective, well-thought out argument. No bias at all, right?
    I agree with Millerboy, NO MS on a Palm device! There are plenty of other makers for MS(no bias, read my sig). I think there should be competition, variety and choice.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    I agree with Millerboy, NO MS on a Palm device! There are plenty of other makers for MS(no bias, read my sig). I think there should be competition, variety and choice.
    I agree that there are other makers for MS phones, but as far as I'm concerned, none of them have hit the sweet spot for hardware/form factor like the Treo has.

    Give me a Treo 700 running MS Mobile 5.0 and I'm a happy man.

    Now that Samsung i730 you've been toting in the other thread looks awfully sweet.....
    I'm back!
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47
    Wouldn't it be nice to have a super-stable OS core, and if an app crashed it didn't bring down the entire OS? Sounds like a winning concept to me. The only drawback would be losing the hundreds of thousands of software titles that Palm users can currently choose from. And that's a big one.
    Palm is more than capable of writing an emulator for Linux (and consequently their new OS) that will be able to run PalmOS applications properly. If they don't want to write one, there are a few already out there that simply need to be licensed and recompiled. They can use this mode similar to the way OSX had its emulation mode, and then just phase it out - just like Apple did.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Is Linux Palm's savior?
    I don't think so.
    IMHO
    I think a soon to be released Treo (when? Anybody’s guess) is almost a given. I’ve been reading with great interest, as many have, the events of the last few days relative to PalmOne and PalmSource as well as Microsoft’s recent announcements and things are beginning to make a little more sense to me. Potentially connecting the dots in a correct manner relative to Palm is becoming a real possibility. No one, but real insiders really know.

    But consider the following:
    - PalmOne buys the "Palm" name first to skirt OS licensing restrictions, but more importantly to have rights to the Palm name, which is a huge advantage relative to future marketing efforts.
    - PalmOne only guarantees licensing the Palm OS through 2009. This is certainly no long-term agreement.
    - PalmSource is now free to develop and market other OS software and probably to other hardware developers/manufacturers. Linux based? Maybe, and very likely possible. Whatever they do, it will be without the Palm name.

    Microsoft to date has:
    - 54 certified Win Media compatible mobile device license agreements with more to come.
    - 8 Win Media certified compatible content providers with more to come.
    - Soon to be released Magneto (Windows Mobile 5.0) with guaranteed compatibility with above.
    - New agreement with Phillips to guarantee compatibility of Win Media and Digital Rights Management (DRM) in “ALL” future Phillips’ family of semiconductor products.
    - Current and pending licensing agreements with some of the big players conducting or planning major digital media content marketing; e.g., wireless, network, satellite, and cable providers.

    If an electrical product you own doesn’t have Phillips’ name on it, it’s likely to have their components within it somewhere; especially if it has semiconductor components and that is not going to change in future electrical products. Think TVs, computers, autos, appliances, phones, small electronics, and even electric blankets.

    Microsoft is fast positioning itself, if not almost there, to become the defacto standard for anything related to digital media. Meaning if whatever you’re marketing; e.g., hardware, software, digital content, is not Microsoft Media compatible and along with it some form of Win OS compatibility, it will not gain any dominant acceptance. There will be viable alternatives, but not with the pervasiveness that Microsoft will have. They also have "Billions" of dollars invested in all kinds of digital media content; e.g., pictures, film, publishing, and music.

    All of which brings me back to PalmOne. Why wouldn’t the soon to be Palm company adopt a strategy of supporting a Win OS in the Treo line with its popularity (acceptance) and form/function, especially the new Microsoft Magneto release (Win Mobile 5.0). They would be crazy not to and what better brand name to market their products with than the Palm brand? This is not to say they will abandon the Palm OS. They would be crazy to do that as well, at least until sometime fairly far into the future and maybe never. In any case, four years gives them lots of time to make major decisions regarding future support of the Palm OS.

    But at this point, I’m fairly convinced that Palm’s future success rests in relying on the Palm name brand attached to the hardware it develops and markets; not so much its underlying OS.

    Note: I possibly do not have all of the above stated as well as a knowledgeable tech savvy person would and maybe slightly incorrect. But the basic facts are real and hopefully anyone can infer and understand the meaning.
  12. #12  
    I haven't read all of these posts but I think i have the jest of this thread. And as an aside, most of you probably know that I favor the Apple platforms and have for more than 18 years.

    Anyway, the way I look at it is Microsoft and Apple have been keeping there eyes open and paying close attention to Palm happenings for the last many months. This has been, in the past, quite an interoperable mobile OS for Microsoft and Apple. But now, it is a race to cature Palm users and Microsoft is winning. We will see what Apple's play is soon now though.

    I said it 10 months ago and I will say it again, the next Treo we see will run Microsoft's OS. This truly hurts me to say, but I am afraid that is what will happen.
  13. #13  
    Nooooo!! If they do that, I'm moving to Symbian just to protest too much of a monopoly! Thanks to Nokia and Sony Eriscon(too bad Palm lost them) for not falling into the monopoly mess!! Yes, I have WM smartphones. I'm not necessarily biased against Windows, just do not like the way they make sure there's no competition. But this is out of control if Palm makes an MS device!!!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #14  
    unless MS runs on the Treo, P1 is dead. the joe schmo user would like a Windows Treo

    Cobalt is DOA, I'm very sad to say.

    Linux would be great, but where is it? And it would need to be on par with the biz function that MS and Palm already have.

    Also, Linux is not the answer to everything. Linux being the savior of Palm is like saying a Dr. Phil show is the savior of a crackwhore. Maybe, but unlikely.
  15. #15  
    That's what the HP6500 and the upcoming 6700 are for! They have similar form factor! WE don't NEED a Treo with Windows! Let HP and Samsung continue with the Windows Mobile devices with keyboards! Maybe I-mate, Motorola, and Starcom(Audiovox) can jump in too with keyboards. There are simply ENOUGH makers of Windows devices!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #16  
    To Microsoft:
    Get off the "Pinky and the Brain" mentality and quit trying to take over the world. If MS would focus more on stabilizing/streamlining their OS and Office suite, they wouldn't be hated as much. Let Google master the search technology, let Palm master the PDA technology, let Apple run with their iPods. Quit trying to monopolize the market and concentrate on your core competencies. All I want from MS right now is more stability, more security, and not having to reboot all the time, especially with the updates/patches. If MS continues to spread itself too thin, it WILL ultimately fail across the board...Mac, Linux, and Firefox have all gained significant market share in the past 12 months and will continue to do so because users are so fed up with Microsoft and their corruptive and dominating business practices. Besides the consumer would benefit if Microsoft quits strong arming all the competion...remember how the superior Beta technology was strong armed out of the market by VHS?
  17. #17  
    I myself also abhor Mircrosoft's market dominance in the PC and applications market. Unfortunately, they are well on their way to doing it again with digital content as well as any form of multimedia data streaming. They have been preparing for this for several years, but certainly not in a very cohesive manner. But now they are getting their act together and it doesn't look good. I hate to say it, but they will own this new emerging technology. I'd like to see someone upset their applecart, but I just don't see any major player doing it.

    Bill Gates has personally invested billions of dollars in digital and multimedia content and he has exclusive rights to "ALL" of it. Companies like Sony and Universal have even sold such content to him and now regret it.

    Now they are trying to strong arm, in a manner, content providers to standardize on Win Media and DRM, especially digital music forms and it's working.
  18. #18  
    It looks like a large number of Treo enthusiasts would rather see PalmOne drift into obscurity than deliver a Windows Mobile Treo. Let's think about it, Garnet is on its last legs, currently its held together by glue and duct tape to support the latest technologies. So presumably the next MAJOR release of the treo will have to use a next-generation OS. Assuming that the next MAJOR release is, say 6-12 months away, what are their OS choices:
    1. Garnet 5.4.x + yet more hacks (feasible within timeframe, but would be really creaky)
    2. Cobalt 6.1 (feasible within timeframe but would entail risk being the guinea pig. Currently no 3rd party software available)
    3. Symbian (Would need at least 12mths to develop their own UI on top of kernel. No 3rd party software choices since it would be new platform)
    4. Windows Mobile 5.0 aka Magneto (would require around 3-6mths customizations to work with 320x320 resolution, decent collection of 3rd party software)
    5. Lineo or some other embedded Linux (depending on the distro chosen should take about 6-12mths to get it customized for Treo infrastructure. Limited 3rd party software)

    If PalmOne goes with say, Symbian, that would mean that the next release of the Treo is at least 18mths away. Sales of the 650 will still be strong for the remainder of 2005 but by 2006 would start to slide as it gets long in the tooth. Meanwhile RIM continues its ascent, Nokia floods the market with yet more Series 60 devices, and Windows Mobile make more inroads with devices such as the HP 6500, HTC Wizard (I-Mate JAM with keyboard). Where does that leave PalmOne? It'll still be around, but increasingly marginalized. Is that what you Treo enthusiasts really want to see?? I want PalmOne to run whatever OS allows them to sell more devices so that they have $$ to plow back into R&D and develop the next great form factor!
  19. #19  
    Maybe a different paradigm should also be considered. From the consumer end. Granted software companies are and will continue to put out upgrades, but how long will consumers continue to follow that lead? I mean, do we (as consumers) really need the lastest and greatest? Is it worth the upgrade? They will never openly admit or annouce this, but I think the software companies (Microsoft, Apple, Palm, etc, etc) are going to have an increasingly more difficult time in the years to come to 'sell' their products to end-users, and especially businesses. (We are already seeing this in the decline of cell phone sales...almost everyone has a cell phone now...if it's not broken, why do they need to get another one if they aren't going to use the features.) It just becoming too expensive all around to be 'bleeding edge' and to have 'the lastest and greatest'. I think anyways.
    My points of view:
    1. Palm - I use my Palm Treo just about the same way that I used my Pilot 1000 8 years ago, except for the addition of the phone. Sure the color adds a nice touch, etc, but I still use Calendar, Contacts, Tasks, and Notes, all of which were there on the original Pilot 1000. There are a handful of other apps, but those really just supplement the PDA.
    2. Apple - I just got into Macs, and have OSX Panther. I see absolutely no need to upgrade my G4 to Tiger. Granted, if I were to buy a new Mac, I would want it, but probably not use many of the 'new' features.
    3. Microsoft - Sure I use XP, but I would be just as well off with Windows 2000. I have a Windows 98 computer at home for the kids. ALL their games work on it. They can surf the web, run MS Office 95 (that still runs by the way, and a lot faster that Office 2003), send email, and print. The only thing 98 can't do (without some coaxing) is USB.

    Basically I'm just sick of the hassle, the expense, the change, and the problems of upgrading. My computers for the most part aren't broken, so I'm not going to fix them. I'm seeing more and more people/businesses with this same mentality. The software companies are going to have some hard sells in the future.
  20. #20  
    My Treo 600 is my first cell phone, and my third PDA. I don't use Calendar and the other standard apps much. I never sync anythng to my PC, unless I need to load files that I can't install natively on the Treo. I have lots of useful software - to me, the Treo is a small computer I can carry wherever I go - with internet connectivity that's quite reasonable.

    I have some video clips and over 6 hours of music on my SD card. Yes, I'd like a better screen and camera, and WiFi. Even better would be the next generation of wide-area wireless, beyond EDGE. If I need a full size keyboard, I have one; if I need to print something I have an A6 (not pretty or standard sized paper, but very functional and compact). I'd certainly like to have at least 64 mb of RAM and a battery I can swap out. But I'm very happy with what I have now.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
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