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  1. #81  
    LOL how did this threat turn into an Apple thread.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    I hope when you say fan boy, you are not referring to me. Anyway, in reality, what it does do is throw a wrench into Mike's argument that Apple is a hardware company. Along with many of his other bablings he continues to spew forth.

    Read this Mike:

    Jobs also discussed a new technology called Rosetta, that he described as "a dynamic binary translator." It runs existing PowerPC applications on the Intel platform, he said. Jobs described Rosetta as "lightweight," and said "it's nothing like Classic."
    What? How does that throw a wrench into anything I said? Apple is stil a hardware company, regardless of the chipset used.

    You are making zero sense.

    And re: Jobs comment, it sounds like an emulator. Whoop dee do. Completely irrelevant to the discussion.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Hahahaha! Whatever Mik... I mean Schwartz.

    Do you mean proprietary like these open source technologies: CF, MySQL, Darwin, Apache, BSD, gcc, Perl, php, Python, Ruby, tcl, expect, bash, ksh, tcsh, and zsh...


    Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    And Apple's treatment of the clone vendors was very good. It was they who took advantage of Apple. That is why it stopped.

    Personally, I'm glad you have chosen to use Microsoft. I hope you continue to enjoy what they offer.
    What are you inferring about the above open source technologies? That Apple had a significant hand in developing them? That is certainly not true.

    Again, you make zero sense.

    Apple treated clone vendors like crap because clone vendor were uncutting them on HW. This is a known fact. Apple killed the licensing, effectinely killing the clone vendors.

    You are not old enough to remember, so I suggest you pipe down or you'll get another does of Brother Schwartz's truth.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwartz
    You mean "use and abuse?" You might want to speak with the KHTML developers who helped Apple with Safari. The problem here is that Apple uses the BSD license which although technically "open source" allows them to fork/make their changes and not contribute it back to the community. GPL is much more stringent.

    Apple treated the clone vendors very well? I guess it depends on how you define "well?"

    You might want to check out these articles:
    - http://news.com.com/Apple+gets+tough...html?tag=st.rn
    - http://news.com.com/Cloners+bypass+A...html?tag=st.rn
    - http://www.seyboldreports.com/SRIP/s...2/IP020213.HTM

    I can furnish more if you want me to.

    All I said is that of the 2 evils I would pick Microsoft, no need to get your panties in a bunch. Personally I use Debian.

    Amen Brother Schwartz!

    Now Archie will twist this around, saying that MS made an time machines and went back and changed history...
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    LOL how did this threat turn into an Apple thread.
    When Archie decided to try to spread inaccuracies about Apple, Intel, MS, and other industry info.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwartz
    You mean "use and abuse?" You might want to speak with the KHTML developers who helped Apple with Safari. The problem here is that Apple uses the BSD license which although technically "open source" allows them to fork/make their changes and not contribute it back to the community. GPL is much more stringent.

    Apple treated the clone vendors very well? I guess it depends on how you define "well?"

    You might want to check out these articles:
    - http://news.com.com/Apple+gets+tough...html?tag=st.rn
    - http://news.com.com/Cloners+bypass+A...html?tag=st.rn
    - http://www.seyboldreports.com/SRIP/s...2/IP020213.HTM

    I can furnish more if you want me to.

    All I said is that of the 2 evils I would pick Microsoft, no need to get your panties in a bunch. Personally I use Debian.
    Yeah, yeah. I know all about the KHMTL open source project. I was kinda hoping you would call this out.

    Don't you think Steve Jobs knows the value of open source software. Jeezez! Who do you think started Next?

    Let me just remind you that as a developer, your goal is to make software that focuses on meeting the needs of the target audience. The KHTML engineering team was not meeting the needs. They were moving at a snails pace. Apple's developers were running circles around them. Plus, Apple had a vastly supperior renderer. It was no longer in their interest to be held back by a bunch of sloths waiting for the next ice age before releasing their perfected "software".

    As heavily as Apple contributed to KHTML and as unrewarding as it was for them, Apple has decided to give it another try and start anew (sans orginal KHTML group). Look here:

    http://webkit.opendarwin.org

    It contains the CVS for WebCore and JavaScriptCore, the open source khtml and kjs derivatives, AND also the newly open sourced WebKit itself.




    BSD... ???
    Mach is based on bsd.



    To address the whole clones issue that MikeC brought up, I have to remind you that it arose out of Mike's need to try and find something to make him sound correct. The fact remains that Apple is a software company at heart. You have to admit that... and you have to admit that MikeC does not want to be proven wrong.

    I have read those articles you linked to. I am not sure why you listed them.

    The whole point of starting the cloning business was to grow market share. The vendors ignored this path as set out for them and chose to directly go after Apple's existing customers. The clone makers were picking off Apple’s high-end markets and not touching the loss making low end where you typically cannot charge to cover R&D expenses. AND they were given the OS license for a song. In return they took advatage of Apple any way they could. Then they complained after Apple refused their request to let them also sell notebooks? What gives. They were freakin' leeches.

    Apple was in the right to stop the cloning manufacturers. They were not owning up to their end of the bargain.
  7. #87  
    I think Apple's continued success is based on the fact that they are ALSO a hardware company. They test their OS/software on their hardware. It just all works, just like it should. Microsoft doesn't have that advantage with their OS/software, which can be good or bad, depending how you look at it.

    Let's get this back to a Palm thread now.
    Palm tried opening the doors. Samsung looks like it may have jumped ship. Sony is gone from PDAs (still the best PalmOS implementation to date). There are still some external hardware makers, but Palm has now brought everything under one roof again.

    Linux just might simplify the software side of things for them, then they could work on the hardware and start shipping more models and get some market share back.
  8. #88  
    I think what you are saying is that Apple has the advantage of selling the whole widget. Yes, that is an important and key benefit to Apple's products
    BUT, to simultaneously agree and disagree...

    Have you seen Linux running on a Mac or a Powerbook? How about Linux running an iPod? You can no longer tell it is a Mac. It has lost it key benefits.

    The hardware is basically just packaging for their software. Look at the Mac mini.
    $499 total.
    What do you get?
    OS X $129
    iLife $79
    iWork $79
    .Mac $30 discount

    That's $317 in software alone and only $182 of hardware.

    Steve Jobs has always said that the heart of Apple (and the Mac) is its software.


    Now, back to PalmSource and Linux. I don't want to be spreading a bunch of doom and gloom but what about third-party software and the differences between all the roms and distribution? This Linux based path isn't going to be all cookies and candy for them.
  9. #89  
    embedded linux can be whatever you want it to be.

    some things that are embedded linux based:
    hardware firewalls/routers
    snap servers (and other nas devices)
    TiVO
    cable set-top boxes
    Mars Rovers Spirit and Opportunity
    some cell phones
    etc
    etc

    Palm doesn't (and shouldn't) try to adapt any of the distributions of Linux, they'll probably just build/compile their own, then add to it as needed.
    The distributions are mainly for you and me to download and install on our pcs. But if we really wanted to we could build/compile our own distribution of Linux, it's just not necessary with all the distributions already available.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    I think what you are saying is that Apple has the advantage of selling the whole widget. Yes, that is an important and key benefit to Apple's products
    BUT, to simultaneously agree and disagree...

    Have you seen Linux running on a Mac or a Powerbook? How about Linux running an iPod? You can no longer tell it is a Mac. It has lost it key benefits.

    The hardware is basically just packaging for their software. Look at the Mac mini.
    $499 total.
    What do you get?
    OS X $129
    iLife $79
    iWork $79
    .Mac $30 discount

    That's $317 in software alone and only $182 of hardware.

    Steve Jobs has always said that the heart of Apple (and the Mac) is its software.


    Now, back to PalmSource and Linux. I don't want to be spreading a bunch of doom and gloom but what about third-party software and the differences between all the roms and distribution? This Linux based path isn't going to be all cookies and candy for them.

    I love that retial price analysis....by the same hand, for a PC:

    PC: $299
    Win XP: $199
    Corel Suite: $90

    So you are getting $290 of software and that leaves $10 for hardware!
    They are giving the hardware away for free!

    Pluuuuuuleeeze! What a crock.

    Software is given away to sell hardware, not the other way around in most cases, obviously there are exceptions - but Apple isn't one of them).
  11. #91  
    You are still missing the point.

    "More than even the processor, more than even the hardware innovations that we bring to the market, the soul of a Mac is its operating system and we're not standing still." - Steve Jobs, WWDC 2005 Keynote, June 6, 2005
  12. #92  
    And with that soul comes:

    Mac OS X
    Mac OS X Server
    iTunes
    iPhoto
    iMovie HD
    GarageBand
    iDVD
    iChat AV
    Keynote
    Pages
    iCal
    Safari
    Final Cut Pro
    Soundtrack Pro
    Motion
    DVD Studio Pro
    Logic Pro
    Shake
    Xsan
    Xgrid
    SoftRAID
    Apple Remote Desktop
    WebObjects
    AppleWorks
    FileMaker Pro
    FileMaker Pro Server
    Final Cut Express HD
    Logic Express
    .Mac
    Mail
    iDisk
    HomePage
    Backup
    QuickTime Player
    QuickTime Pro
    QuickTime Broadcaster
    QuickTime Streaming Server
    AppleScript...

    and many more SOFTWARE titles made by Apple.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    And Archie, you can also take a seat at the back of the class.

    A definition of grid computing, as you have no idea what it means:

    [www.webopedia] A form of networking. Unlike conventional networks that focus on communication among devices, grid computing harnesses unused processing cycles of all computers in a network for solving problems too intensive for any stand-alone machine.

    (ex. SETI @ Home).

    iTunes has nothing to do with that sort of architecture.


    Thanks for playing...we have some rice-a-roni as a parting gift...
    You refuse to listen to what I say. No surprise here.

    I keep saying "iTunes Music Store(iTMS)" and you keep saying iTunes. I am fully aware that you do not need any sort of network to simply run the iTunes application. I am talking about the iTunes Music Store.

    Your definition only includes one aspect of Grid computing (a nice one that Apple has certainly enabled and popularized with the release of XGrid).

    Maybe this will be clear to you soon enough though.
    Yesterday Apple and Nokia announced that they will be bringing Apple's WebCore and JavaScriptCore to the entire Series 60 platform (licensees and all), which will allow them to deploy software everywhere, to all these devices, using the Grid Computing architecture.

    You see, with grid computing, individuals are no longer just passive consumers, they become active. The idea of client machines and server machines will soon be a thing of the past, thanks to Apple.
  14. #94  
    I get the point just fine, you just have not idea what you are talking.

    Who really cares what Jobs said at a developer's conference, where his primary goal is to sell Apple?

    And as for grid computing, again, you show zero grasp of the concept.

    But whatever help take the edge of the methadone comedown...
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