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  1. #41  
    BTW... I just read this:

    http://brighthand.com/article/Latest...m_OS_for_Linux

    Apple Mac runs on Unix
    PalmOS runs on Linux
    Windows, er, runs (?) on Windows ?

    Watch out....I hear glass breaking
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Maybe I should send you my cheap plastic HPs that overheat for no good reason, with the keys and touchpad acting up with heavier usage. Sony and Toshiba the next time I buy a laptop. The only good HPs are possibly the BIG 17" with the full keyboard, but I even saw a cheaply built, overheating model of one of those too! HP quality went down the toilet with Fiorina(sp?) on board, I'm sorry to say! I had a Omnibook, none of the same problems, NONE!
    Maybe you should...but they aren't as flimsy as the plastic on a Dell.
    Overheat? I've been running about a half dozen HP laptops 24/7 for about a year...no issues.

    (FYI the big 17" HPs are very nice).

    I guess your mileage may vary....but for a $1,000 difference, I will go that route.

    I like Sony, so no argument there, other than price. Toshibas are nice too.

    My point was that price for performance, Apple is still out of step against regular PCs, especially in the world of ever increasing performance.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwartz
    Hmm... apparently Apple, your marquee example, thought it was a good idea.

    See Microsoft to invest $150million in Apple

    I'd better step aside now, before I get excommunicated by the keepers of the flame. Now I understand why Palm users get ridiculed by people like Russell Beattie .

    Don't stop brother schwartz! The truth shall set you free!

    (you may get banned by the TP, but that's par for the course.)
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by gkaatz
    Apple should just by PalmOne and PalmSource outright.

    Apple already has experience in both hand helds and layering a UI on top of Linux.

    Wouldn't it be great to see a multimedia smartphone (Tripod) powered by PalmOS X

    Now THAT's Synergy!
    This is a Palmpologist's wet dream (And I like the Treo).

    Apple has very little experience with handheld. The Newton was a failure, despite what anyone says (although I thought it was kind cool at the time).

    Layering a UI on top of Unix?

    Who hasn't done this? Sun, BeOS, Red Hat, Debian, SuSe, etc. This has been going on a long time.

    I guess time will tell; will Apple come out with a true Smartphone within 2 years? Who knows.
  5. #45  
    I put the iPod in the "handheld" category. Still the point being that it isn't unfamiliar territory for Apple. Palm would bring extensive handheld and some telephony experience to the table. Apple already has ported a UI to Linux and has Linux internals folks. The power of both brands (if done correctly) could be huge.

    Look, assuming neither company wants to "go away" it seems like the best opportunity for both to succeed. I really like the concept/sound of PalmOS X :-)

    Apple Treo doesn't sound too bad either though I do think TriPod is catchier.
  6. #46  
    Treo lady, i agree with you.
    Schwartz, correct me if i am wrong, but dell, HP, sony and the rest of the pc makers make only windows machines (ibm made Linux but sporadically i think). Would you ask dell or sony to make other OS machines? Why asking palm to do it especially when windows mobile sux (i hated mine and switched to treo). The only reason you want palm to make windows operating treos is to gain more customers even though the windows mobile OS is clumsy.
  7. #47  
    Magneto is not clumsy. Perfect? No, but much better/advance that Palm is today (I hate to say).

    Garnet, now that is clunky.

    People install Linux on Dells, HPs, etc. every single day.

    If Mangeto could run on a Treo today, people would install it.

    Again, Palm as an OS is dying. Cobalt would have been great 2 years ago, but they missed their chance (dumb greedy bastards).
  8. #48  
    but isn't magneto after blackberry? (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04...berry_magneto/)
  9. #49  
    magneto is part geared against BB, but make no mistake, MS wants into the corp. smartphone world bigtime.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by v3treonut
    I wish I could share your enthusiasm for Apple, but I can't. Apple made a brilliant move when they introduced the ipod along with iTunes and did their homework beforehand. Although the ipod is mp3 compatible, Apple gambled that users would flock to to a source that provided relatively inexpensive music even if the music was proprietary. And it worked. Another thing that helped make it work was the inclusion of a Win compatible version of iTunes; another brilliant move.
    I'm not picking on you at all here but I just wanted to mention something about iTunes that you may not have been aware of. Apple’s iTunes uses a distributed computing network and nobody even realizes it. The methods and graphical user interfaces... all web services provided by grid computing. It runs on multiple platforms. And hey, you know what, If you have Tiger, your machine will distribute (XGrid). What does this mean in regards to this thread. Not much, other than Palm one has let technology pass it by. Soon we will be saying hello to a new kind of Palm-like digital assistant; one made by Apple that will utilize Apple's XGrid.

    Quote Originally Posted by v3treonut
    But the problem now is MS is catching up super fast and circling the wagons, to coin a cliche, relative to digital content and its distribution.

    Magneto (Win Mobile 5.0) is coming out the door as the only mobile OS that is able to natively support high capacity mini-hard drives and WAN connections like EDGE and EV-DO and guess who supplies and is building their networks on that technology. Answer: Every major wireless carrier.

    What you will have soon are devices with a ton of storage capability (4gb is only a starting point) that can easily connect to the Internet at high speeds for voice, digital media downloading, plus audio and video downloading and streaming (playing on the device) using an OS with built in support for optimization. And don't forget the alliances being forged by MS for standardizing the play media (software) and DRM for all this media. Who else has all this to such a degree but MS?
    But Microsoft doesn't have scalular content delivery.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    My point was that price for performance, Apple is still out of step against regular PCs, especially in the world of ever increasing performance.
    This isn't true. I don't know if you've heard but Moore's Law has been failing us for the last two years.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by BugzLife
    Treo lady, i agree with you.
    Schwartz, correct me if i am wrong, but dell, HP, sony and the rest of the pc makers make only windows machines (ibm made Linux but sporadically i think). Would you ask dell or sony to make other OS machines? Why asking palm to do it especially when windows mobile sux (i hated mine and switched to treo). The only reason you want palm to make windows operating treos is to gain more customers even though the windows mobile OS is clumsy.
    The PC makers in general (Dell is an exception, they sell Windows-only to maintain consistency in R&D, manufacturing, configuration, distribution, inventory, etc so as to minimize costs) will sell whatever OS is demanded by the customers. In terms of desktop PCs, most consumers and businesses prefer Windows. Yes, I know that enthusiasts and other cutting edge adopters want Linux or Apple, but I'm talking about the general public here. In the server space, there is demand for Linux and IBM/HP will gladly sell you a machine with alternative operating systems. You have a choice of either SuSE or RHEL across the entire x/p/i/zSeries line. At the end of the day it all boils down to the fact these companies are profit-maximizing corporations. They'd even preinstall DOS if there was sufficient demand for it.

    The last time I checked Palm was a public company with responsibilities to its shareholders to maximize their returns (Fortunately I sold my PALM holdings 3 years ago). If Palm was a private company I'd hold my tongue and let them do whatever they want, but as a public company the primary priority is $$$.
  13. #53  
    iTunes is "grid computing"? umm...suuuure.

    Apple can't even do DRM properly (client side encryption instead of server side). Might scale but that's because it offloads the real work (and architecturally breaks DRM).

    As for being wrong about Apple not having good price/perf. compared to PCs, please justify you comments instead of mentioning Moore's Law (which is a trend, not a law). And that trend is alive and well.

    The $4,000 PC of 2 years ago costs less tha $1,200 today...
  14. #54  
    Yeah, the iTunes Music Store system is a secure network-based distribution of media. And so mobile professionals/consumers wanting to access their files from a home computer, cellular phone, personal digital assistant, or any other computing device, will be able to do so securely (at this time, Apple has only enabled desktop access). Apple can essentially give any user, regardless of platform, access to their great software. Software like the iTunes Music Store and soon, probably iTunes Mobile.

    Apple's encryption is based on grid computing, not "client side" or "server side"

    If Moore's Law isn't a law, why did they name it Moore's law. :-)
    Anyway, you have proven my point by stating that computer prices have done nothing but fall drastically in 2 years. This is because there is no new manufacturing technology to pass on to the customers. The industry is stagnant. They have hit the wall at 3 - 3.2. Given time there will be another bump in speed but the road is long.
  15. #55  
    Groove was doing distributed secure "grid" stuff years ago...iTunes is nothing new.

    Yes, iTunes DRM is client side; when you download a song, DRM for your ID is applied within the iTunes client, not at the server (or service, if you like that term...but is it definitely not grid...I don't even think you understand the term).

    Processor has more than doubled in 2 years, and memory speeds and disk capacity (and speeds) have increased as well.

    Are you even on the same planet as us?
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by gkaatz
    Apple should just by PalmOne and PalmSource outright.

    Apple already has experience in both hand helds and layering a UI on top of Linux.

    Wouldn't it be great to see a multimedia smartphone (Tripod) powered by PalmOS X

    Now THAT's Synergy!
    They would buy PalmOne for that and just let PalmSource wither and die (they don't need them). Porting the Darwin kernel to the Treo 650 architecture (can't speak for others) wouldn't be exceedingly difficult. BSD-Core is notoriously easy to port to other platforms.
  17. #57  
    Apple will not buy Palm...I am almost willing to bet Treo 700s to everyone into this thread up until now that this will not happen.

    Apple does not need Palm's baggage. And Apple only like HW that they develop.
  18. #58  
    Schwartz, i understand. apple makes hardware and software for a specific audience too but, last time i checked, apple was riding very high in the stock market. palm can do the same to its stockholders without switching to windows. right? am i missing anything here?
  19. #59  
    Yup Apple is riding high now, but there was a time in the late 90's when it was beset by lack of vision, lack of compelling products, manufacturing snafus, and lame duck leadership (Remember Gil Amelio and Ellen Hancock?). The pundits were predicting Apple demise.... and along came Steve Jobs. Now Steve is a headstrong, obstinate guy, but he's understands that one has to pick their battles. So, what does he do? He "sleeps with the enemy," annoucing at Macworld 97 that MSFT is going to invest in Apple. In exchange Apple will carry Internet Explorer on the OS and MSFT promises to continue developing MSOffice for Mac. He was booed by the crowd, but as you pointed out, the rest is history. (see chart on Apple's rise after 97) Apple bought the time it needed to develop new products and pull itself out of the doldrums. Of course MSFT didn't help Apple because of any altruistic motives. It needs Apple alive to maintain its position that MSFT is not a monopoly. That may be why MSFT is in talks with Red Hat right now. Regardless however, Apple chose to compromise so that it could live again to fight another day.

    Now let's speculate what might happen to Palm. Currently, Palm PDA sales are decent, Treo sales are pretty good, but looking forward 12-18 mths I'd say they're going to have to transition to an advanced new operating system platform. Current cash flow is enough to sustain operating expenses, but a major R&D effort like a new OS requires significant amounts of dough. They can't raise the money from the public since too many people got burned by them. Personally "NASDAQ:PALM" holds the record as the biggest loser in my portfolio. Retail and institutional investors give it a wide berth. So, they have to raise money either from existing operations i.e. boosting sales volumes, improving margins, or reducing costs. Can't reduce costs because of new R&D development, tough to increase prices in a highly competitive market, and without a major new mass market product you can't increase volumes. Now, suppose it takes longer/cost more to develop the new OS than they anticipate, sales of existing garnet devices taper off, and they're really in a pickle. If the new OS devices fail to take-off, Palm is a goner. Do you guys really want to see that happen? I don't.
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  20. #60  
    Incidentally this is PalmOne's stock performance over the past 5 years or so. Would you invest?
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