Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 128
  1. #61  
    Gecko,
    Is the art of literacy lost? I never said an iPod "runs on Windows". I said the iTUNES client on Windows has contributed enormously to the iPod success. No one with two synapses can argue that point.

    Now, the OS of an mp3 player certainly does not need to be Windows, or Palm for that matter. in fact they are both weaker than dedicated OS's (ex. iRiver, iPod, Creative, Dell, etc.).

    Now a PDA-phone needs a beefier OS. That is where you have MS and Palm, with Symbian being the BeOS of the space. (BB are just email devices, regardless of things tacked on.)

    Palm has failed to deliver Cobalt in a timely way. In fact, PalmSource made history by creating a version of an OS (6.0) that was never implemented on a commercial device. This should be the wikipedia definition of boobdoggle.

    Now there 6.1, yet no devices out there.

    MS is not standing still...they are attacking BB first; Palm is just an afterthought to be addressed.

    That is just the way it is. I love my Treo, but Palm needs to avoid getting itself wrapped up in the 1990's Apple mentality.
  2. #62  
    Let me try to simplify it for you.

    You compared the success of an iPod re: connectivity to Windows to Palm placing a MS based OS in their phones. This is an invalid comparison. It's that simple.

    Valid comparison: iPod connectivity to Windows : Treo connectivity to Windows

    By your own statement, part of the iPods success lies in it's ability to connect to Windows based PCs. This can only be compared to Treo's ability to do the same....which it does.

    You need to come up w/ a valid/better argument to convince me that Palm needs to place an M$ OS on their PDAs. And even then, you probably won't win me over. As an M$ Net Admin, I deal w/ M$ OS everyday. I have used Palm OS almost as long. I will keep a Palm OS on my PDA for as long as I can....until it is gone or until it is absolutely undeniable that M$ has built a far superior product (like what happened between IE and Netscape....I eventually had to give in.....but now I use Firefox most of the time and IE only when I have to.)

    RE: your insulting literacy remark, I misread "iTunes did not run on Windows" as "iPods did not run on Windows".....my fault.
    Last edited by Geckotek; 06/03/2005 at 08:40 AM.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  3. #63  
    Here is an argument to convince you that Palm thinks they need to place an M$ OS on their PDAs and an appropriate one, coming from me.

    They have severely underestimated the number of Palm users that sync these devices to a Mac. Their 3% estimate, as stated last week at some interview/podcast thing I listened on the net is completely off base. I truely believe the number to be more around 25%. 25% is a significant proportion and can break a company. They should be careful. They have no vision and Apple has been circling Palm's wagons.

    Anyway, as evidenced last week, Palm thinks the device is what is important, not the software, and so they made a move to make this more pronounced; hence, the buyout of the Palm name. Now they can clearly and appropriately market a new device with a M$ OS on it to serve the masses, yeah right. Their only other 2 OS options are still at least a year out in development (and yes, this includes Cobalt which STILL needs customized for a device such as the Treo... assuming they choose to use this).

    OK, that's all I'm typing for now. Probably not the most convincing arguement, but I can try again later.
  4. #64  
    In what way is Apple circling Palms wagons? Why does Apple even care about Palm? (unless you are talking about the poor excuse of PDA functionality the iPod has.)

    I honestly don't know, but isn't Palm packaging their devices w/ the ability to sync to a Mac or are you guys having to buy your own 3rd party product? I do agree that would be short sighted to not include the ability to sync to Mac....however I believe 25% to be WAY high. Straight from Macworld.com, the Q4 market share for Apple was less than 3%. Unless you're telling me Mac users are much more likely to buy a Palm than PC users, there's a flaw in your math.

    Re: the implications of last weeks announcement, you may be right.....and it makes me sad.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  5. #65  
    Steve Jobs has explicitly stated that he's not interested in PDAs. His rationale is simple and compelling: Music has been in people's DNA since the beginning of time, hence a music device would have mass market appeal. On the other hand, PDAs appeal to organization/neat freaks, and this constitutes a much smaller subset of the population which he feels is not worth going after.

    Lots of people bought Palm III's and Palm V's. If you analyze what they used it for, it was mainly as a glorified address book. Now that cellphone address books have advanced to the level of 'good enough' (i.e. ability to hold multiple numbers, email address, street address) these folks have cast off their PDAs. Hence the poor replacement rate of PDAs - these folks aren't buying T3's, T5's, Lifedrives. On the other hand, they are upgrading their cellphones. At the end of the day, it all boils down to the fact PDAs appeal to a very limited user base.
  6. #66  
    Can't argue too much w/ that. Count me in as the few and the proud!
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  7. #67  
    Preach on, Brother Schwartz!
  8. #68  
    Gecko,
    First, I apologize for the smart-aleck comment; I got hot under the collar, as if I was watching Gwen Stefani in a hot oil wrestling match with Sienna Miller and someone blocked my view.

    Let me clarify:
    I NEVER said that because iPods connect to Windows, that the Treo OS should be MS. Period.

    The point was this:

    - Most ipod owners have PC's.
    - PPC devices sync better to Windows PC (esp. Outlook)
    - PPC are more stable than Treo 650
    - MS Magneto offers signifcant improvements

    Many people would embrace a MS Treo...perception is reality a lot of the time, and it would be percieved as working better with MS stuff.

    Garnet is a 1997 OS, and it just is not up to the task, esp for media, which is where this is all going.
  9. #69  
    most people using PCs and therefore WMA and WMP being most suitable for iPod?

    media format does not require a certain OS man. mp3 is universal, so is OGG. Apples format is infact mp4, if you did not know. So it is very PC friendly.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    <snip>I NEVER said that because iPods connect to Windows, that the Treo OS should be MS. Period.
    No, but that was the implication of your post....maybe I read it that way due to lack of better explanation (and based on the current direction of the thread at the time.)

    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    The point was this:

    - Most ipod owners have PC's.
    - PPC devices sync better to Windows PC (esp. Outlook)
    - PPC are more stable than Treo 650
    - MS Magneto offers signifcant improvements

    Many people would embrace a MS Treo...perception is reality a lot of the time, and it would be percieved as working better with MS stuff.

    Garnet is a 1997 OS, and it just is not up to the task, esp for media, which is where this is all going.
    1) My Treo syncs fine w/ Outlook (has for years)....NEVER have an issue
    2) I MAJORLY disagree about stability....Palm OS has been rock solid much longer than M$ has been around (Treo 650 w/ orig FW being the exception...but that's fixed now for me.) M$ just recently started doing better.
    3) sorry, unfamiliar w/ the term "Magneto"....I'm assuming it's the M$ codename for the most recent PPC version??
    4) I agree about perception...ignorant ppl are fooled easily (not implying anyone here is ignorant....just saying perception is not always fact)
    5) I personally don't care about MM....but it seems the general public does....seems useless to me to watch a full movie on such a small screen and the few times I had music videos or TV shows on mine, I never watched them except to show off to friends.....useless for me.

    P.S. - thanks for the apology......and the visual....DOH! get that filth out of my head!!
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    In what way is Apple circling Palms wagons? Why does Apple even care about Palm? (unless you are talking about the poor excuse of PDA functionality the iPod has.)
    Well, unlike Palm, Apple is providing handheld functionality that caters to both platforms... ehh, not the Palm platform, that would be the Mac and PC platforms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geckotek
    I honestly don't know, but isn't Palm packaging their devices w/ the ability to sync to a Mac or are you guys having to buy your own 3rd party product? I do agree that would be short sighted to not include the ability to sync to Mac....however I believe 25% to be WAY high. Straight from Macworld.com, the Q4 market share for Apple was less than 3%. Unless you're telling me Mac users are much more likely to buy a Palm than PC users, there's a flaw in your math.
    Yeah, Mac users are more likely to buy a Palm than PC users.
    But, Palm seems to think the Mac numbers are irrelevent. That is why they no longer develop Palm Desktop for the Mac. That is why VersaMail will only sync with Microsoft's OS. That is why the T5's File Exchange app is Windows only. That is why the LifeDrive Manager is only available for Windows. That is why the LifeDrive's Folder Sync will only keep files and folders in sync on a PC. That is why the new Palm Installer 1.5 still doesn't help out Mac users who come across .exe(cutables). That is why Cobalt will have no support for the Mac whatsoever. That is why Palm will be releasing a Microsoft based Treo.

    jerks.
  12. #72  
    Archie,
    A little whine with the sour grapes? You sound like someone complaining that they don't make OS/2 software.

    I'm sorry to say, but Macs are irrelevent (not necesarily Apple, but Macs). It's been the way for over 10 years. The Mac era was '84-'94. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. (and I owned every Apple computer made since the first one all the way through those NuBus ones...)

    Sadly, Palm has followed the same path, but without a pile of cash and a market hit like the iPod.
  13. #73  
    ...I personally would appreciate an OS that did a little more, but I say that as I listen to an album on my Treo while typing this response! Makes me wonder just how good "good enough" will be? I don't WANT M$ on my Treo, but I also want the phone to do more. Does no one else recognize the fact that we can't truly multitask? I don't know much about PPC, but if I could close this window, open my calender to retrieve some info, then pop back into this response to type that info in, I'd be in heaven!!!! Is it not possible that we all love our Treo's so much that we're blind to the fact that there are alternatives out there?
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    ..we can't truly multitask? I don't know much about PPC, but if I could close this window, open my calender to retrieve some info, then pop back into this response to type that info in, I'd be in heaven
    Why is it that PPC can do this but palm cant?
  15. #75  
    Dr. Doom - I hear ya...when is good enough, good enough?

    It reminds me of the old saying:

    When a rich man is asked 'how much is enough', his reply is 'just a little bit more.'

    I agree that we need multitasking.

    What you describe is easily done on PPC today, ex. Siemens SX66
    Actually, you could do it back in 1998 in PPC devices.

    As to the reason Palm can't do this, James, it's very simple. Palm sat on their arse from 1997-2005 and didn't develop a next gen OS. (sorry, Cobalt not here yet in any device.) They let MS get better and better with each release.

    Unfortunately, thems the facts.
  16. #76  
    Well, the shoe has dropped.

    Apple switching to Intel.

    wap.oa.yahoo.com/raw?dp=rssnews&u=ap/20050605/ap_on_hi_te/apple_chips&rn=topstories

    They should have done this 15 years ago. Better late than never.

    I think this is a good move by them.
  17. #77  
    ...maybe I'm naive. I'm not willing to conceed that Cobalt is a lost cause. In 1997 Palm did something no other company did. They revolutionized a brand new industry. While I'll admit there is no real evidence to support this, I'm holding out hope that Cobalt, or some other here to fore unmentioned OS will amaze us all. I know that is very far fetched, but its what I choose to do. I don't want M$. Its that simple. But Palm needs to do something. Quick.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  18. Rich#CB's Avatar
    Posts
    91 Posts
    Global Posts
    102 Global Posts
    #78  
    My wish list? Easy.

    The Treo 650 is nearly perfect. Sure, there's room for improvement, there always is, but it's hands down better than ANY other device (or combination of devices) I've ever used.

    The faults:

    1) That Stupid Aerial.

    It's gotta go. I know there are folks out on the US who like the idea that an aerial gives better reception, but really that's just perception based on the US's crappy network. People think you need a powerful phone with a good signal to get a decent reception but in reality that's no longer true. For example, my old Nokia has better signal strength and that's 2./5 years old with no external aerial.

    Get rid of that awful stubby lump and the device just fits easier in your pocket! And you're not going to make any sales to new users in Europe with a phone that looks so 1997.

    2) USB charge cable in the box!

    I mean, really, this is just shoddy. I'm not saying we shouldn't get a stand alone charger in the box, but in 2005 a device that won't charge from USB is just dumb, especially when you can buy a USB sync & Charge cable for next to nothing online.

    3) Proper 3.5mm headphone jack

    But, y'know I bought 4 adaptors for 6 when I got my 600, so that's not really a problem as such...

    Wow, I'm really clutching at straws here to try and find faults with the device itself.

    Software wise:

    a) An improved mail client

    Sure, Versamail in a ton better than the old email client from the 600, but there's LOADS of room to step up here.

    b) Better contact/number handling

    I get a text from my friend telling me "This is my new number, Regards, Steve". I should be able to click on the number the text came from, select "Add To Contact" and choose who the number gets added to. This is a small example of the problem, basically the apps can deal with calendar stuff really well, but phone numbers and email appears to be lagging...

    c) And while we're at it, how come I can't get my Treo to automatically put itself in silent mode during meetings in my calendar?

    d) Not Realplayer.

    Just not, OK? Or not in the ROM anyway. On the CD in future please!

    Things I'd like to see added:

    1) WiFi

    This is more of a "Nice to have" than really being a fault with the Treo 650, but here in europe networks charge by the MB (Or in some cases the KB) for data. So there are lots of WiFi "Hotspots" around and it would be nice to be able to make use of them.

    2) Bigger screen

    You can never have a screen that's too big.

    3) Better camera

    Hey, at least the one on the 650 actually works in lighting conditions darker than "200 meters above the surface of the sun".

    What the next Treo must keep if I'm to even look at it:

    1) Palm OS

    I won't be using a windows portable anytime soon. I've used dozens and they can be OK, but I've never, ever used one that was as intuitive and easy to use as palmos has been. I had Psion 5 up until I got my Treo 600 and even when my last 2 employers gave me IPaqs I still used the Psion 5 because the interface was better, easier and quicker (as well as more stable).

    If the next Treo is windows, I'll be looking at the next generation of Symbian devices.

    2) Form Factor

    Gotta have a keyboard you can use while holding the device and walking along. No thumb board = no sale. Not interested in graffiti, handwriting recognition or voice activation. Gotta have a decent keyboard.

    3) No moving parts

    Used flip phones, used PDAs with fold out keyboards, used Nokia's massive communicator and that wierd scissor phone that's around at the moment. Moving parts = bad. If they go back to a flip, I'll look at going back to Blackberry again (ugh!)

    4) Stick with SD.

    I'd be miffed and baffled if they try to move to to a different memory type. But that probably wouldn't stop me buying the phone.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    As to the reason Palm can't do this, James, it's very simple. Palm sat on their arse from 1997-2005 and didn't develop a next gen OS.
    I believe you Mike but if that were the only reason that would be nuts. Were they not worried about the market? Were they working on what they thought was more important?

    P.S. If my questions sound green yes I have only been using a PDA for a few years now.
  20. #80  
    I would say, until recently, muti-tasking was not in big demand for PDAs. If it had been, M$ would have a much bigger market share by now.

    BUT, now that PDAs are getting closer and closer to being portable PCs, that is changing. Public demand had morphed and now multi-media and multi-tasking are in high demand. While it appeared Palm was posed to adjust for that w/ Cobalt, who knows what's going on behind the curtain and why they have failed to follow through.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions