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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Swingstylez
    rrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Bill is clueless and you're the smart one. So, how much more than Bill do you make a week??

    How many companies has successfully run for around 20 years?

    How many publications has you produced on industry direction????
    I'm not saying I'm smart.

    I AM saying that Bill is clueless. Everything that company has is based on copying. Well, except for the SPOT watch (see, he just doesn't get it how many people that carry around cell phones still bother to wear a watch).
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    You said that the iPod evolves. I am asking you why do you think others can't imitate that and create a product similar to it? Just because the iPod keeps changing it doesn't protect it from being copied.
    Yes, but the fact that Apple innovates is what makes them stand out. They were the first and that is why they sell more than any other copycat. Well, that and the competition still doesn't get what makes the iPod popular (and I'm talkin' in addition to the cool factor).
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    What? It's my turn not to understand what you are saying.
    Oh, I'm talking about Microsoft's new Xbox they released that uses the same processors as Apple's PowerMacs. In fact they bought a bunch of these machines about 2 years ago to rip open and reverse engineer the way they worked to incorporate some of the Mac's key technologies.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    archie, I don't think anyone is trying to dispute that currently the iPod is KING. But tomorrow: Who knows?
    (BTW, I love my iPod! )
    mikec was
  5. #65  
    You know what I find really funny?

    mikec telling me I drink the Apple Kool-Aid.

    I have been using OS X for 5 years, I have continually upgraded the Mac version of Illustrator and Photoshop, Strata 3D and Suitcase for over 12 years (and purchased a sickening amount of various other Macintosh apps along the way), I worked for MarketSource (a branch of Apple's Marketing Team) for 2 years, have owned various Macs for over 17 years and have observed the market for a good 18. I do not currently work for any of the afore mentioned companies but I feel that I do have history.

    So I hope you can see the irony and the humor from my point of view when Bill Gates says the iPod doesn't have what it takes to stick around, everybody instantly goes about trumpeting this very fact. The iPod is dying. Ohhhh, BILL's word is the gospel.

    I seeeee how it works. It is just me that drinks the kool-aid.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Apple derives 90% of revenue for hardware, so they are a HARDWARE company.
    This is just incidental but Apple is a software company that uses hardware to help make money. It is the software they excel at. This software is what sells the hardware. Do you think anyone would buy a Mac if you could use OS X on an Intel machine? Nope. Well not many would anyway.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    So, if you will, the "threat" to Microsoft is iTune and, consequently, the iPod. Nuff said.
    Again, this is inconsequential to the subject at hand, but the threat to Microsoft is not the iPod (or iTunes), it is the DRM and QuickTime technologies. These sit behind the scenes, but are the real threat to Microsoft.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    mikec was
    I never said anything of the sort archie (that iPod was not current king of mp3 players). Me thinks the fumes are getting to you.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    You know what I find really funny?

    mikec telling me I drink the Apple Kool-Aid.

    I have been using OS X for 5 years, I have continually upgraded the Mac version of Illustrator and Photoshop, Strata 3D and Suitcase for over 12 years (and purchased a sickening amount of various other Macintosh apps along the way), I worked for MarketSource (a branch of Apple's Marketing Team) for 2 years, have owned various Macs for over 17 years and have observed the market for a good 18. I do not currently work for any of the afore mentioned companies but I feel that I do have history.

    So I hope you can see the irony and the humor from my point of view when Bill Gates says the iPod doesn't have what it takes to stick around, everybody instantly goes about trumpeting this very fact. The iPod is dying. Ohhhh, BILL's word is the gospel.

    I seeeee how it works. It is just me that drinks the kool-aid.
    Use whatever you like; but to claim that the iPod will be the universal device for the world is a bit to much Jonestown for me.


    I don't see the irony; MP3 players are a commodity. Period. That does not mean there isn't money to be made for a while (charging a premium). Novell has made a lot of money selling commodity NOS products. So has Sony with digital cameras, HP with printers.

    Bill's word is not gospel (who said it was?). But he points out an economic fact.

    Call me in 5 years and let's see where things are.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    This is just incidental but Apple is a software company that uses hardware to help make money. It is the software they excel at. This software is what sells the hardware. Do you think anyone would buy a Mac if you could use OS X on an Intel machine? Nope. Well not many would anyway.
    You know, Sun tries to use that line. It doesn't work. Apple is a hardware company that makes software that sell hardware.

    You have proven my point with your quote:

    "Do you think anyone would buy a Mac if you could use OS X on an Intel machine?"

    Exactly. That is why Apple licensed clones and then killed them off a few years back - they were losing too much money. Proof that they are a hardware company.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Yes, but the fact that Apple innovates is what makes them stand out. They were the first and that is why they sell more than any other copycat. Well, that and the competition still doesn't get what makes the iPod popular (and I'm talkin' in addition to the cool factor).
    That's why I like them too. Apple isn't a follower. And they don't have to try to stiffle the competiton to make a point. Unlike another company that I won't mention, the one that is often slow getting out software that should have been out 5 years ago.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    You know, Sun tries to use that line. It doesn't work. Apple is a hardware company that makes software that sell hardware.

    You have proven my point with your quote:

    "Do you think anyone would buy a Mac if you could use OS X on an Intel machine?"

    Exactly. That is why Apple licensed clones and then killed them off a few years back - they were losing too much money. Proof that they are a hardware company.
    Hhhh, the reason Apple stopped licensing is because the quality started going down hill. I suppose you could look at it like they were undercutting Apple and in turn Apple was losing money... IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

    Apple got their share of the pie. I mean why do you think they call it licensing. They got paid for each unit sold. The problem was the various manufacturers started cutting corners to sell them even cheaper and as a result, the quality and in some cases the compatibility, suffered. This is not good for a company with a reputation such as Apple's.

    So, you see, not only did Apple make money in licensing but they also made money on all the copies of the OS that went out with those machines.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Use whatever you like; but to claim that the iPod will be the universal device for the world is a bit to much Jonestown for me.


    I don't see the irony; MP3 players are a commodity. Period. That does not mean there isn't money to be made for a while (charging a premium). Novell has made a lot of money selling commodity NOS products. So has Sony with digital cameras, HP with printers.

    Bill's word is not gospel (who said it was?). But he points out an economic fact.

    Call me in 5 years and let's see where things are.
    You ability to twist my words around and expand upon them is extraordinary. I did not claim the iPod to be the universal device for the world.

    I can't believe I am actually taking pleasure in continually correcting you. Anyway, If the cell phone is to overtake the iPod it will certainly take 5 years. But don't you think Apple is prepared for this? I mean jeez, it seems pretty certain that they have an iTunes Mobile that they will be distributing in the coming months to keep those users coming back to the iTMS and assure the continued use of iPods. Some may like the idea of listening to music on the phone. But for most, that will have a limited appeal, with batteries lasting only a few hours.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Really? I thought iPods were supposed to be the best. Especially if you didn't mind iTunes and proprietary formats. I don't have one, iTunes was enough to turn me off, but I thought they were the best thing out there.
    They are (I gues I should say they are for me anyway). Really. With the current navigation and music support being an afterthought as far as integration with the device, the Treo will not replace the iPod for me. I mean I have to use an adapter just to hook up regular headphones. I would rather get a more polished phone app (with profiles and more ringer options, you know regular phone stuff) before we entertain any delusions of grandure of ousting the iPod.
  15. #75  
    Ok, is it just me, or are people just thinking that 2-3 years is not going to change the iPod. Seriously, this is ridiculous. Two examples:

    Apple pre-OS9ish :: Marketshare in the toilet; Windows creating a HUGE following; Macs being very $$ in comparison. "Apple's done" "They can't compete in the market" "Windows will kill them off" etc etc. Everyone heard those comments. Heck, I even said them (not that I know all, but you know). Hrm... where are they now?? Well, let's see... they've innovated in a way that their market share has more than doubled (i think? Not sure but I think from 3ish% to 6ish% now... someone correct me, becuase I know I'm wrong, but it's something like double). They've innovated in a way that their hardware is "sexy" and "desireable". Think about all those grey cased windows boxes. How many of those are left? Who was the first to stray away from that? Apple. They're an innovative company. To say that the iPod wont last if it doesnt' change in 2-3 years? DUH!!! Of course not. The iPod WILL change as Archie has stated. Technology doesn't stand still, as Apple (and other companies) have shown... Which leads to the next point.

    Handspring/PalmOne :: Say that for some reason Palm doesn't pick up the Treo line when they merged? What are we left with? The Treo270/300? I think so. Now, how many of you are willing to trade your 600/650's for those "Old" devices? Hopefully not many. You see, if the Treo wasn't updated for 2-3 years, I highly doubt many of them would be sold anymore. There are MUCH better phones out there than the 270/300's and they would slowly go away. Why haven't PalmOs phones gone away? Because the Treo line evolved. It's got a better screen, bluetooth, and better backlighting. It's got a camera, wallpapers, ringtones, etc. They got rid of the nasty "I'll cut your speaker wire" flip-lid. The Treo has gotten better, and people are STILL buying the product becasue of it.

    The iPod will evolve too. It will. Apple is a very innovative company, and it will not stand still. I'm not saying that it will or willnot be the end all of devices, but to say that it wont have staying power is ridiculous. Apple will make something better to replace it. Just like MacOS X. Just like PalmOne with the Treo 600/650. End of story.
    ---
    Chad Morrill
    Visor (2MB) // Visor Edge // Treo 180 // Treo 600 // Nextel Blackberry 7510 // TMobile Blackberry 7230 // Motorola V180 // Motorola A925
    http://chadsnewest.joysta.com
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Hhhh, the reason Apple stopped licensing is because the quality started going down hill. I suppose you could look at it like they were undercutting Apple and in turn Apple was losing money... IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

    Apple got their share of the pie. I mean why do you think they call it licensing. They got paid for each unit sold. The problem was the various manufacturers started cutting corners to sell them even cheaper and as a result, the quality and in some cases the compatibility, suffered. This is not good for a company with a reputation such as Apple's.

    So, you see, not only did Apple make money in licensing but they also made money on all the copies of the OS that went out with those machines.

    I don't know what I am talking about?

    You, my comic book friend, have no freakin' clue what you are talking about.

    Your post is so whacked out I'm surprised people let that slide.

    "Cutting corners" - yea right. That is such BS. The bottom line what the clones got more efficient, and cut into Apples HW sales and they killed them (stopped licensing). Period. I know execs from Apple who were there at the time and were directly involved. And I also know a manager from a clone company who basically echoed that.

    "Hurt their reputation"....gawd, more BS. Dell make crappy machines - does that reflect negatviely on MS? IBM make good laptops - does that reflect favorably on MS? The answer is no.

    I was wrong; you aren't drinking the Kool-Aid - you're smoking the crck pipe.
    Last edited by mikec; 05/19/2005 at 10:12 AM.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by chadallan80
    Ok, is it just me, or are people just thinking that 2-3 years is not going to change the iPod.
    Amen.
    Windows hasn't changed much either...you still have to reboot way too often. Windows is 'broken' and keeps getting more 'broken'.
    iPod isn't 'broken'...why are they going to change it?
    Apple is smart, they'll continue to innovate....look at the Mac Mini. That's gotta to have Microsoft scared.
    While Microsoft maybe smart too, look at their latest WinCE innovation in Windows Mobile 2005...they removed the ability to wirelessly activesync. WTF?!!?
    With my Tungsten C, I only used the WiFi part to hotsync, and I heavy rely on the bluetooth hotsync with my Treo 650.
    You go Bill, let's see what you can do...
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    You ability to twist my words around and expand upon them is extraordinary. I did not claim the iPod to be the universal device for the world.

    I can't believe I am actually taking pleasure in continually correcting you. Anyway, If the cell phone is to overtake the iPod it will certainly take 5 years. But don't you think Apple is prepared for this? I mean jeez, it seems pretty certain that they have an iTunes Mobile that they will be distributing in the coming months to keep those users coming back to the iTMS and assure the continued use of iPods. Some may like the idea of listening to music on the phone. But for most, that will have a limited appeal, with batteries lasting only a few hours.
    You said "You can put anything you want into a pod"; sounds pretty universal to me.

    You are not correcting me, as that implies I was wrong in the first place. You are posting you opinions, which history has shown to be as wrong, and have not basis in reality.

    Is Apple prepared for the device convergence? Who knows? They have a crapload of cash, which always helps. But in the carrier driven world of cell phones, it's a different world.

    I completely disagree that listening to music on a cell phone will have limited appeal. Battery life continues to grow; as does external card storage.

    But to each their own....
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by ekuzco
    Windows is 'broken' and keeps getting more 'broken'.
    Um, this couldn't be more wrong if you tried. How is Windows 'broken'? Care to elaborate? I'd start listing all the reasons why it's not, but I'd like hear first why you claim it is. If it was 'broken', why doesn't Linux or Mac OS have a larger market share?

    Of course, given your sig, I can see how you'd think otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by ekuzco
    ..look at the Mac Mini. That's gotta to have Microsoft scared.
    Why would Microsoft be scared of the Mac Mini? Is Microsoft in the PC business? I haven't seen too many Microsoft branded PCs. Can you post a link? Oh wait, it must be the price, right? True, NO ONE offers a $499 Intel or AMD/Microsoft box, right? Oh wait, Dell does. So does Gateway. And a lot of other companies do too. Except there's a difference. Those boxes come with a keyboard...and a mouse...and a monitor...and speakers...and a printer. Does the Mac Mini come with any of that at that price, or is it all extra? I'll give you that it's a cool little box, but "scared"? Come on.

    Believe me, if Microsoft doesn't fear the US Justice Dept or the EU, there's no company in business now they fear. Just as Apple will evolve with the iPod, Microsoft will as well. They spend more on R&D than most companies do on G&A.
    I'm back!
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    You said "You can put anything you want into a pod"; sounds pretty universal to me
    MikeC - I believe you were talking about this paragraph ::

    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    None of you get it. The iPod was so named for a reason. The iPod is a computer that changes along with industry trends and technology. Thats why it was so vaguely with an all-encompassing description. You can put anything you want into a pod. Started with music, then they added audio books, then audio recordings along with the addition of a mic, then an address book, then I think about 3 weeks later they added calendar functionality with a software updater, then photos, then games (albeit, marginal quality)...
    I believe he wasn't talking so-much about a universal device, as he was about the capability to put anything you want to save on an iPod. The iPod is an external firewire/usb2.0 hard drive that happens to have an LCD and an mp3 player gui on it. The fact that it is an external hard drive means you can... pretty much put anything you want on it.

    <shrug>
    ---
    Chad Morrill
    Visor (2MB) // Visor Edge // Treo 180 // Treo 600 // Nextel Blackberry 7510 // TMobile Blackberry 7230 // Motorola V180 // Motorola A925
    http://chadsnewest.joysta.com
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