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  1.    #1  
    It's near the tail end of this story:
    http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/11...o650/index.php
  2. #2  
    If you're referring to the reference of Palm possibly using a 4GB hard drive like those found in the iPods, that would be ridiculous. Moving parts in a device such as a phone that gets put though the many rigors of daily life is not necessarily a good thing.

    'Course this is just the sort of decision I would expect Palm to make at this stage. Especially with the introduction of 4GB memory cards (no moving parts). Palm always seems to be behind the times in terms of technology.
  3. #3  
    An internal hard drive seems like a no brainer to me. Add some video out capabilities (I'm guessing much harder to do than it sounds), and a keyboard, and some people could toss their laptops.

    Plug in your treo in your dock at work, and when you leave, take your computer with you!

    Clue
  4. #4  
    I thinks its gonna be vaporware
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    An internal hard drive seems like a no brainer to me. Add some video out capabilities (I'm guessing much harder to do than it sounds), and a keyboard, and some people could toss their laptops.

    Plug in your treo in your dock at work, and when you leave, take your computer with you!

    Clue
    Agreeded
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    If you're referring to the reference of Palm possibly using a 4GB hard drive like those found in the iPods, that would be ridiculous. Moving parts in a device such as a phone that gets put though the many rigors of daily life is not necessarily a good thing.

    'Course this is just the sort of decision I would expect Palm to make at this stage. Especially with the introduction of 4GB memory cards (no moving parts). Palm always seems to be behind the times in terms of technology.
    There are already mobiles with integrated HDs fyi... Samsung SPH-v5400 is prime example of that:

    http://www.engadget.com/entry/6562347367956546/

    Also, it amazes me that people always ***** and complain that Palmone doesn't innovate, but when they do innovate everyone just criticized them! NVFS is a case in point and there are sooo many reasons why NVFS makes sense irregardless of what some users here say!

    -NVFS means there will finally be a true File sys for PalmOS
    -NVFS means that data will not be lost by power failure, thus more secure
    -NVFS means better power management for pdas/smartphones
    -NVFS means that larger capacity of storage for pdas...even HDs

    And finally NVFS is also part of Cobalt that was integrated early into the T5/Treo650. Now of course, it is buggy and PalmOne made a huge mistake by only using 32 MB of Nand in the 650, but that doesn't mean it is a bad technology imo...
    _________________
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Also, it amazes me that people always ***** and complain that Palmone doesn't innovate, but when they do innovate everyone just criticized them! NVFS is a case in point and there are sooo many reasons why NVFS makes sense irregardless of what some users here say!

    -NVFS means there will finally be a true File sys for PalmOS
    This "true" file system is only needed for Microsoft technologies. Look at all the other phones and PDAs without this system.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    -NVFS means that data will not be lost by power failure, thus more secure
    In my 4.5 years as a Palm OS user, I have never lost data because of a power failure. When the devices shut down because of a low battery, they do so with the intent of protecting data. They will go for weeks without a charge and sustain all data.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    -NVFS means better power management for pdas/smartphones
    I can better manage the use of power with third part apps like Treo Guard, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    -NVFS means that larger capacity of storage for pdas...even HDs
    The only drive size that will be able to fit a Treo form factor are the small 4GB models. Incidentally; there are 4GB SD cards that are smaller in form. Why not just use one of those and get faster access to your data. I don't know if you are familiar with the technologies used in these smaller drives (like on the iPod) but they are designed to operate in burst modes. If you were to constantly draw information off of them for things like video streams you will burn out the drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    And finally NVFS is also part of Cobalt that was integrated early into the T5/Treo650. Now of course, it is buggy and PalmOne made a huge mistake by only using 32 MB of Nand in the 650, but that doesn't mean it is a bad technology imo...
    Palm used to be so highly regarded in having an incredibly fast and efficient OS.
  8. #8  
    *sigh* This type of post is exactly what I'm talking about! When PalmOne actually tries to innovate, people just disregard it b/c they don't like change or cannot understand why the change is needed...

    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    This "true" file system is only needed for Microsoft technologies. Look at all the other phones and PDAs without this system.
    HUH? All WM pdas, smartphones and all WinCe core based devices rely on a true file sys. I believe even Symbian OS uses a true file sys. PalmOS NEEDS a real file sys and the use of NAND is the logical and next step in the evolution of mobile data storage on pdas/Smartphones. This is even the case on PPC's where many devices now have more Nand than Ram for obvious reasons. PalmOS and PalmOne are the very first to actually use Nand as the PRIMARY type of ram used that maintains a seamless backup and protection of data...

    In my 4.5 years as a Palm OS user, I have never lost data because of a power failure. When the devices shut down because of a low battery, they do so with the intent of protecting data. They will go for weeks without a charge and sustain all data.
    Well, that's great, but that does NOT happen with the Treo. Ask anyone who's had a falty minisync cable that shorted their treo connector, or anyone who's lost all battery power, or anyone who left their Treo uncharged for weeks. I've also been a hardcore palmos user for many years, but the excuse of using the old capacitor trick to switch and move batteries w/o losing data is nonsensical and illogical for such an expensive device as the Treo. A removable battery requires NVFS and NVFS (although currently buggy) is the vital next step for larger storage capacities...

    I can better manage the use of power with third part apps like Treo Guard, etc.
    Treoguard won't help when the battery is totally dead. Again to fail to grasp the real reasons for NVFS...

    The only drive size that will be able to fit a Treo form factor are the small 4GB models. Incidentally; there are 4GB SD cards that are smaller in form. Why not just use one of those and get faster access to your data. I don't know if you are familiar with the technologies used in these smaller drives (like on the iPod) but they are designed to operate in burst modes. If you were to constantly draw information off of them for things like video streams you will burn out the drive.
    The point is the HD is much cheaper per MB than Flash can ever hope to be. Furthermore there are many forthcoming manufacturers that are developing even smaller HD's like Cornish and Toshiba which has announced a 0.86 miniHD for mobile devices. Furthermore, M-sys does sell a 1 GB DiskOnChip Nand chip. All these tech are feasible and possible in future palmOS devices using NVFS. An internal 4 GB SD would not make sense b/c it is not just the size of the SD but the internal assembly required for it which makes it alot more space consuming. Thus integrated Nand chips onto the mainboard or integrated miniHD's would make much more sense...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    An internal hard drive seems like a no brainer to me. Add some video out capabilities (I'm guessing much harder to do than it sounds), and a keyboard, and some people could toss their laptops.

    Plug in your treo in your dock at work, and when you leave, take your computer with you!

    Clue
    Those laptop hard drives don't fail when the laptop fails because it is not spinning. I can throw my IBM stinkpad to the ground right now and the hard drive would survive i'm sure. But if I have a treo phone that is constanty on and searching through the hard drive there would be a greater risk of the hard drive failing not to mention that it would be smaller and would break easier. I would rather have a 4 gig highspeed SD card.
    Im a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    *sigh* This type of post is exactly what I'm talking about! When PalmOne actually tries to innovate, people just disregard it b/c they don't like change or cannot understand why the change is needed...
    I am not disregarding it but you are right about me not liking it. Besides, I cannot call something innovation if it is less capable and actually slows me down.


    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Well, that's great, but that does NOT happen with the Treo. Ask anyone who's had a falty minisync cable that shorted their treo connector, or anyone who's lost all battery power, or anyone who left their Treo uncharged for weeks.
    It seems a shame that the masses should have to suffer the consequences in addressing the problems of the few. Falty minisync cables shorting out connectors are you serious? People actually leave their Treo lying around for weeks? I need mine for SOMETHING every hour of EVERY day. Oh, and my Treo 180, 270 and 600 do preserve enough power to keep them from losing data.


    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Treoguard won't help when the battery is totally dead. Again to fail to grasp the real reasons for NVFS...
    I think I probably misunderstood what you were saying. I brought TreoGuard up because it saves me, on average, about an hour of talk time. That in my mind is huge and I don't see anything that points to the NVFS doing that for the Treo. I could be wrong though.


    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Furthermore, M-sys does sell a 1 GB DiskOnChip Nand chip.
    This sounds interesting. If they went with something like this, would they then not need to swap out the app, data, or whatever from NAND and then decompress it. I like the idea of no moving parts too.

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