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  1.    #1  
    I am a Treo 600 owner (bought my 600 from
    Handspring for the SprintPCS network). At first
    I was excited about the 650, but now I am not.

    Of course palmOne is resisting Cobalt (the OS for
    smartphones) -- it levels the playing field. I can't
    believe we're getting all worked up over a small
    incremental update (Treo 650) of a revolutionary
    product (Treo 600). AND, you want to pay $600 for
    the privilege?

    That is what palmOne is all about, incremental
    improvements. They have bought a few quarters
    of life with the Treo. But they will die just the
    same if they don't come out with something
    phenomenal soon! Concern #1: palmOne will
    not innovate fast enough to escape obliteration.

    Concern #2: pricing has not been agressive enough.
    They have suffered many years of sliding sales before
    they released the Zire line.

    Concern #3: there is no sense of urgency from the
    company! Microsoft is eating away at their mind
    share, and now Cobalt threatens to eat away at their
    market share in their only growing market (smart-
    phones). Thank you PalmSource for lighting a fire
    under palmOne.

    The Treo 650 is DOA! It will be too expensive, too
    little, and too late. It is the end of the line.

    More nimble and aggressive companies (that specialize
    in cell phones) will use Cobalt and put palmOne out
    of its misery. It may take a few months, but it is
    quite clear there will be a sub-$300 Cobalt phone
    with a screen as big or bigger (>= 320x320) than
    the Treo 600/650. What differentiates palmOne?
    High price?

    palmOne you are irrelevant if you continue to make
    high-priced incremental products. We don't need you
    anymore -- we have PalmSource.
  2. #2  
    I think you may be bang on, however I thought this before the t6 was released. Their competitors don't exactly have a killer instinct or palm would be dead right quick.
  3. #3  
    I agree with many of your comments. Perhaps the restructuring associated with the split into PalmOne and Palm Source, and buying Handspring has delayed things and led to a lot to sort out behind the scenes - but they're losing time fast, the Treo 600 should be dead and buried, by now we should long since be on the Treo 650 and waiting for better products in the near future. The pace of development is so slow they don't stand a chance against companies like Sony Ericsson, and the rate of new Pocket PC's appearing.

    As we saw with the desktop PC market, success has nothing to do with having a good product (ie. Windows), it's all to do with gaining the most market share and obliterating the competitors.

    Apple have survived through innovation, but there seems to be little of that coming from PalmOne.
  4. #4  
    I think we are losing perspective here. The real strength of the Treo 600 is in the form factor and usability. A lot of hard work went into making it truly usable as a phone AND a PDA. Being able to do just about anything one handed is fantastic. Providing a complete and very functional keyboard in that space is amazing. The 650 will provide some polish to this excellent product especially with high resolution (although I hope to God they offer a 64MB version). All this übergeek talk of OS upgrades can only be appreciated by the small minority who understand such things and are dying to be on the bleeding edge. It misses the point that the Treo 600 is an excellent phone and a superb PDA, that the two are totally integrated, that the thousands of Palm OS developers are offering wonderful programs for it, that it works perfectly for e-mail, web browsing, and MP3 playing as well as sound and video recording, that it is fun to use, and that it looks great. Do you really think there is no market for it?
    Newton 120 > PalmPilot Pro > Palm III > Visor Deluxe > Visor Prism > Treo 90 > Treo 600 (Sprint) > Treo 700p (Verizon)
    ----------------------------Nokia 5160------------------> Motorola V8160 ^
  5.    #5  
    Are we all forgetting, palmOne did not produce the
    Treo 600? It was Handspring.

    Don't get me wrong, the Treo 600 is a great phone/
    PDA.

    My concerns are with palmOne. IS PALMONE
    RELEVANT?? The answer is: yes, if they innovate
    and drive down prices .. NO, if they are just going
    to give us more of the same (incremental products
    at high prices).

    Their only hope is Jeff Hawkins .. but, I can guarantee
    you he is not working on the Treo 650 .. he is off
    inventing the next revolutionary smartphone.

    The Treo 650 is just a sequel .. milking the cash cow.
  6. #6  
    I hate to agree, but I'm starting to see the wisdom behind this thread...unless P1 gets its act together pronto.

    Check out this news I discovered:
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d=1#post417464
  7. #7  
    does anyone know what special interlocking relationships (i.e., exclusive licensing agreements, mutual stock ownership, etc.) exist between P1 and PS?
    Off to iPhone land...
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by ghileman
    does anyone know what special interlocking relationships (i.e., exclusive licensing agreements, mutual stock ownership, etc.) exist between P1 and PS?
    P1 is not limited to Palm OS; P1 is free to use any OS available out there. However, P1 is one of the two development partners of Palmsource, Sony being the other one. P1 is also the largest licensee of Palmsource, contributing more than 50% of Palmsource's revenue. However, I am not aware of any mutual stock ownership situation. As far as I can tell, P1 and Palmsource are two seperate and independent companies, not much different from HP and Microsoft in the PC world.

    Will P1 ever use another OS? Probably not in the near future. If P1 were to go with another OS, I am guessing that it will be Symbian before Microsoft.

    Another interesting detail - if Palmsource were acquired by another company, P1 would get co-ownership of the Palm OS codes, especially if the acquiring were Microsoft.....
  9. #9  
    <but, I can guarantee
    you he is not working on the Treo 650 .. he is off
    inventing the next revolutionary smartphone>

    Well, fist of all "inventing revolutinary ----" is what it is - something that is given to very few people. To blaim P1 for not being able to do that is the same thing as blaiming GM for not having flying cars....

    Just to prove that point - T600 is out for almost a year and it is STILL by FAR the best phone/PDA combo on market. Think about it - FULL YEAR in computer ( that waht it is after all ) bussness! That is unheard of. Yes of cause it was Handspring who came up with it, but I still waiting for competition to offer something, anything close.

    May be MPx will be there, but it seems we have to wait another 6 month for it....
  10. #10  
    that is also a very good point. sure, other ppcs promise more features, and the "talk of what's to come and how it dwarfs p1" surrounds these forums, but these very devices are no where to be found. the majority of treokillers are still vaporware. for now, treo 600 still owns the crown.
  11. joele's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by mblat
    T600 is out for almost a year and it is STILL by FAR the best phone/PDA combo on market.
    This is VERY subjective!!!! I tend to disagree I dropped the Treo 600 for the XDA II and a BT headset, and find it FAR better than the Treo 600! Also the Treo 600 doesn't sell all that well outside the World (I mean US).
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by joele
    This is VERY subjective!!!! I tend to disagree I dropped the Treo 600 for the XDA II and a BT headset, and find it FAR better than the Treo 600! Also the Treo 600 doesn't sell all that well outside the World (I mean US).
    mblat's point is not anymore subjective that your opinion either. So what's your point?
  13. joele's Avatar
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    #13  
    I said "I FIND" the XDA II to be a better device, saying "STILL by FAR the best phone/PDA combo on market." is just crap!!!!

    And I didn't use my subjective statement to "Prove my point"....
    Last edited by joele; 09/29/2004 at 01:51 AM.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    if Palmsource were acquired by another company, P1 would get co-ownership of the Palm OS codes
    wow, talk about the ultimate poison pill!
    Off to iPhone land...
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by joele
    I dropped the Treo 600 for the XDA II and a BT headset, and find it FAR better than the Treo 600!
    So, then- why are you still here on this board? A case of Treo envy, perhaps?

    I haven't seen a Phone/PDA that does everythiing the Treo does as easily. It's as much about form as it is function, and the Treo simply enjoys the best overall design of what I've seen out there.
  16. #16  
    I think the problem with Treo 650 is very simple.

    What is really new on it?

    a) BlueTooth

    b) 320x320

    Period.

    So... do you really need BT? Hmmm not me. May be I could have a BT car kit or BT handsfree thing from Jabra... but I don't really need those.

    Now... do you really need 320x320? Hmmm not me. May be I could run more games and some map programs like Via Michelin... but I don't really need those.

    So... If you need BT and/or 320x320 go and pay for a Treo 650... if not, like me, forget about it.

    That simple.
    Nokia 9110i -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by joele
    This is VERY subjective!!!! I tend to disagree I dropped the Treo 600 for the XDA II and a BT headset, and find it FAR better than the Treo 600! Also the Treo 600 doesn't sell all that well outside the World (I mean US).
    I tested a XDA-II (Movistar TSM500) from a cell company in Spain and I cannot find reasons in daily bizz to prefer the big XDA-II to the smaller Treo 600. Hmmm I love the keyboard... I love the form factor... and I don't need a BT headset.

    So...

    Do you want a adult toy? Get a XDA-II

    Do you want a substitute to your paper organizer? Get a Treo 600

    That easy.
    Nokia 9110i -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600
  18. joele's Avatar
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    #18  
    To me the treo 600 could not replace my previous combo of tungsten E and nokia mobile. although your right if you only wish to substitute your PAPER organiser you should be happy with the treo 600, if your lucky enough to not get faulty hardware!

    yes, it looked great but was an inadequate pda, and worst of all, the threads in this board itself are evidence of how unreliable the hardware was.

    As to why i am here, well i joined here when i owned a treo 600, and I am interested in seeing how palm moves forward with the treo 650 and subsequent models!

    I am in no way against switching back to palm one day but after 8 years of using palm or sony branded pdas the treo600 was very disappointing....
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by joele
    To me the treo 600 could not replace my previous combo of tungsten E and nokia mobile. although your right if you only wish to substitute your PAPER organiser you should be happy with the treo 600, if your lucky enough to not get faulty hardware!

    yes, it looked great but was an inadequate pda, and worst of all, the threads in this board itself are evidence of how unreliable the hardware was.
    I'm going to make the very obvious point that you seem to have (at least) an XDA, Tungsten E, and a nokia. That's three devices. Sure you might might only use the Tungsten E and Nokia as a combo as you metioned above, but again that's still two. On top of carrying two devices, you have to worry about the set up of getting them to talk to eachother, having data sync'd up on both of them (unless the nokia can read the tungsten's address book), making sure they are both charged, etc.

    That's quite a bit of work for me and I'm guessing the average joe phone owner. Sure for some techno-geeks, this is not an issue, but let's talk about the above average technology person, the person that owns, say a Tivo. If you look at the average PDA that consumers own (consider that there are a lot of Palm Vs still out there), I'd say that the Treo 600 is far above average.
  20. joele's Avatar
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    #20  
    I use the XDA II and my GF uses the Nokia as her mobile and the Tungsten E to play bejeweled....

    Actually as far as day to day use (simple calendar) usage the Treo is probably an easier deive to use although for a business personal I think the XDA II (PPC) integrates better with outlook for obvious reasons.

    Apart from those three devices I have an Palm M105 which I use as a TV remote and an Sony SJ-22 which just kind of collects dust with my work supplied Tungsten W which I actually liked more than the Treo 600 in as far as it was very reliable and hires, but a stupid design by Palm I got a little sick of only being able to use it with a wired headset and the SLOW processor made anything that needed a little grunt like isilo and bejewled very painful to use!

    I will admit that after using PDAs for so long, since actually before the Palm Personal (funky clamshell Casio Organisers) my requirements are above the average Joe user, BUT IMHO Palm needs to have a range of products to satisfy both the techno junkies and the average Joe.

    Actually any of you read Shaun's review on PDA247 (very good palm news site) I'm not the only one who was far from impressed by the Treo 600!
    Last edited by joele; 09/29/2004 at 09:01 AM.
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