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  1. #61  
    darnell. you are right. we should stop this conversation. and i think treocentral should remove this thead. it seems that, according to you, the only people who are fit to promote a PIM DEVICE are those people who believe in sex between a man and a woman inside marriage and in a two parent man/woman parent household. it seems you have the right to determine for all of us what is "deviant" behavior. a forum like this for a PIM DEVICE should welcome all people and all points of view. i'm stopping to read this thread right now so i don't have to read whatever you reply. it's gone beyond having anything to do with a treo and into the realm of people infringing on the rights of others.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Every study ever done has shown that a much higher percentage of kids who listen to this trash on a continual basis end up doing more destructive behavior.
    I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from Darnell, but recent studies show that close to 70% of all hip hop music is purchased by white consumers. I hardly think there is enough evidence to support an increase in "destructive behavior" by white suburban teenagers that can be directly attributed to hip hop music. Again, lets leave the convenient stereotypes outta this...
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by hall316
    happen to have a link to any of those studies?
    I was waiting for someone to ask .

    Does Rap Put Teens at Risk?

    More about the Emory study.

    VIOLENT MUSIC LYRICS INCREASE AGGRESSIVE THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, ACCORDING TO NEW STUDY

    Not a study but true none the less:
    No Avoiding Crime-Rap Industry Links

    Here is a site releated to a great book about this whole issue: http://hiphopslop.com/
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by 03Range
    Again, lets leave the convenient stereotypes outta this...
    See my previous post that includes the facts to back up what I know is true and have seen with my own eyes. I've spent time working as a mentor trying to help some kids out from this mess.


    Quote Originally Posted by theatreguy
    and i think treocentral should remove this thead.
    Like I said, you took the conversation down that road. I guess your goal was to inject conversation that might cause this thread to be removed. Since you asked the question and I simply provided my answer. I guess since I did not respond to your question the way you wanted me to respond, now you request removal of the thread. No matter if this thread is removed or not. The truth is still the truth.
  5. hall316's Avatar
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    #65  
    wow, three studies speaks for everyone. And that's every study too darnell like you said. Amazing. It all boils down to an opinion. just like you believe there is a god, doesn't mean there is one. it's your opinion and your faith. what gives you the right to force your opinion on others yet it's not ok for someone else to?
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    I was waiting for someone to ask .

    Does Rap Put Teens at Risk?

    More about the Emory study.

    VIOLENT MUSIC LYRICS INCREASE AGGRESSIVE THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, ACCORDING TO NEW STUDY

    Not a study but true none the less:
    No Avoiding Crime-Rap Industry Links

    Here is a site releated to a great book about this whole issue: http://hiphopslop.com/
    Your Emory study proves little. As I said in my previous post, the majority of hip hop music is purchased by non-minorities. Your study examines behaviors of MINORITIES that are subjected to heightened exposure to rap music videos. The problem with your argument is you're discounting the effects rap has on the people that actually patronize this particular genre of music, which I would argue is minimal.

    Due to the fact that a disproportianate number of minorities typically come from single-parent households, have babies born out of wedlock, disproportionate crime rates, etc. its hard to imagine that what minorities watch and listen to on tv leads to "destructive behavior". The aforementioned issues have been around looong before Nelly started "flapping his wings".

    Aside from all that, what are the people at Emory really proving anyways??? If I did something for 14 hours a week more than someone else did, I'm pretty sure I would begin demonstrating more characteristics of whatever it was I was exposed to than the other person. Big deal...
  7. #67  
    darnell, I know what your are trying to get across here. you've hit the nail on the head, and im with you.
    now, the people who are going to get it, WILL. the people who do not WONT. doesn't matter how much evidence you can provide.
    those who don't get it or don't agree are simply going to continue going, "yeah, but,.... and well that study isn't accurate...., this and that".
    much of the music industry promotes bad values. period. and if some people choose to believe that much of today's family breakdown isn't somewhat related to this,well, hey.. what are ya gonna do? on with ignorance is bliss, guys.. ya know!? hey, go america!
  8. #68  
    You can say that again treobk214! I know it's true that they will continue with their side no matter what, but I actually enjoy this. Although they don't want to agree there still could be just one not posting that learns something good.

    Quote Originally Posted by hall316
    what gives you the right to force your opinion on others yet it's not ok for someone else to?
    Force? How have I forced anything? I have offered my thoughts and of course there are some folks upset about there BECAUSE I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR VIEW. It is you who are trying to impress your views on me just as much. That is what discussion and debate are all about. But since you disagree, now I'm trying to "force" my opinion ! Oh what a funny that is!!!

    Well you and others can disagree with me now. But I pray (to that God I believe in) that your kids do not start acting like the messages from this trash. You can act as if they won't, but it happens. As I've said I know from personal work and it happens.

    03Range - Yea there have been many bad things in some minority areas in the past. But NO IT WAS NEVER THIS BAD. NO THE DROPOUT RATE WAS NEVER THIS HIGH. NO THE TEEN PREGNANCY RATE WAS NEVER AS HIGH AS MODERN TIMES! NO THE RATE OF THOSE IN JAIL VERSUS THOSE IN COLLEGE WAS NEVER THIS HIGH. And these issues came because of a shift in the culture. The music is the drumbeat of that culture. You can say it's just the minorities now. But trust me, others are going the same route. Just give it time... You can deny the music is not a factor, but it is one of the most critical factors of all.

    Which is why Jason Kidd had to change the music even he listens to. He's no kid living in poverty!
    But Jason and Joumana both know that Jerry Colangelo's zero tolerance for domestic violence helped seal their fate in Phoenix. On January 18, 2001, Joumana called 911 and told a police dispatcher that her husband had just struck her in the face. When police arrived, Kidd was arrested and booked for misdemeanor assault. He issued the standard apologies to his family, his team, and the public, and after a plea agreement was ordered to undergo six months of counseling. He continued therapy long after the schedule required by law, and eventually pressured the Suns into hiring his counselor as a full-time consultant. He even changed the music he listened to from blood-boiling rap to R&B ballads.
    Now the article does not say it all, but Kidd after spending time in therapy was shown how the music affected his actions. He has said on national TV (Good Morning America) that the music was messing him up. And he had to stop listening to it before going to see his wife. The aggressive messages were causing him to act like someone he didn't want to be! Someone bound for prison!
  9. #69  
    And I forgot to mention, there are WAYYYYY MORE STUDIES than the few I posted. I just posted a couple. Sorry, I'm not paid to do research for you. I know what I know, so I give you some and if you don't like it you would not like anything given.

    But just to show it happens to more than just some miority kids. Here is a study from Hong Kong:
    Rap Lyrics and Antisocial Effects on Young People in Hong Kong
    (It's in MS Powerpoint format)

    So stop it with the stereotypes that only the poor minority kids are affected .
  10. #70  
    case in point. ya know what music those kids who rifled everyone down at columbine were listening to just before snapping?

    MARYLIN MANSON

    You folks who think music plays no role in teenage behavior - would you now feel comfortable sitting next to a rebellious teenager in a subway car knowing he's having an ear of mr manson? would ya mind if your kids listened to this type of music knowing what it drove other misguided teens into doing?
    hey, think however you want. to me, the connection is pretty damn crystal clear.
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    #71  
    oh please, music didn't push those kids over the edge. being picked on every day by bullies had more to do with it than the music. which song was it that marylin did that said go kill all the kids in your school?

    It's nice that you pull your opinion of facts based on some report of what they were listening to. And how did marylin show them where to buy a gun or how to use it becuase I missed that part in the songs too.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by hall316
    oh please, music didn't push those kids over the edge. being picked on every day by bullies had more to do with it than the music. which song was it that marylin did that said go kill all the kids in your school?

    It's nice that you pull your opinion of facts based on some report of what they were listening to. And how did marylin show them where to buy a gun or how to use it becuase I missed that part in the songs too.
    Well if they are mentally strong enough to stand up to the constant barrage of negative messages in the music they were listening to, you'd think a few bullies at school would be a cake walk. And since we're talking about studies and information let's see the facts and documentation on the bullying the two killers endured.

    Regardless of one's viewpoint, we have come to accept in this country that the stuff we see on tv and hear in music and read etc, is acceptable behavior. Not everyone is affected in the same way. I play violent video games weekly, but have no desire to kill someone. Why because I was taught by my parents that killing was bad along with a host of other things.

    Unfortunately in todays world the media (music, movies,tv etc) is used to teach children more and more because many parents dont take the time to do it themselves. So as a result many kids see and hear stuff that they think is ok. Now for those of us that are teaching our kids right and wrong, this isnt as big a deal, but for those that dont it is. Eventually those kids that learn their right and wrong form the media will impact our kids and us and thats why we dont like that kind of stuff.

    Now if you think that killing and raping and stealing and lying and cheating, all of which are portrayed regularly in the media as acceptable behaviors, are ok for you and your kids I pity you. Dont wonder what when wrong when it does. Some of us dont want our kids exposed to that sort of influence because it's hard enough being a parent.

    All that aside though Hall, what do songs like that do for you? or anyone else. What is their value to society? what good do they do? Where is the benefit? Please dont say entertainment. If you do then I must assume you would find it entertaining to see a cop shot to death or a woman raped.

    Do you see the point yet? No asking you to agree just to understand the other side.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
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    #73  
    you keep talking about songs about raping women. where are these songs? i have yet to hear one. go to billboard and tell me where this song is. I will find it and listen to it. not all rap is about violence and what not, but it's nice that you seem to think it is. just like not all rock is bad either. i will admit a lot err most of the music out today is crap, but that's just my opinion. now, i'm not going to take my opinion and preach it on others becuase they have the right to make the decisions for themselves.

    I how can you support violent games? dont' you know that they teach kids to kill? i mean that's what others say so it must be true. no it doesn't matter that you are smart enough to know the difference, there are parents out there who don't know how to raise thier kids, so everyone else is to blame because no body want to take responsibilty for thier own actions.

    It's still entertainment. I laugh when I see these video's on tv. I mean, 90% if the stuff in videos is all for show. The houses and cars you see people having on mtv cribs is rented or leased. if you don't know the difference between right and wrong, then it's not just some song that is going to make a kid a bad apple. to blame anything on a song is a riot. what song was did that john wilkes booth listened to before he shot lincoln? what rap group were the terrorists playing when they crashed into the towers? what rap group was it again the son of sam killer liked? how about all the copy cat shootings that happened in the schools after that? are you going to tell me they all listened to marylin too?

    again, it's always easy to blame something else. tv is way more influential than music is.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by hall316
    you keep talking about songs about raping women. where are these songs? i have yet to hear one.
    Not arguing about copkiller songs though are you??

    Quote Originally Posted by hall316
    I how can you support violent games? dont' you know that they teach kids to kill? i mean that's what others say so it must be true. no it doesn't matter that you are smart enough to know the difference, there are parents out there who don't know how to raise thier kids, so everyone else is to blame because no body want to take responsibilty for thier own actions.
    It feels weird quoting myself but here goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by woof
    I play violent video games weekly, but have no desire to kill someone. Why because I was taught by my parents that killing was bad along with a host of other things.
    Second line. I thought I was clear. Maybe the color will help.


    Quote Originally Posted by hall316
    It's still entertainment. I laugh when I see these video's on tv. I mean, 90% if the stuff in videos is all for show. The houses and cars you see people having on mtv cribs is rented or leased. if you don't know the difference between right and wrong, then it's not just some song that is going to make a kid a bad apple. to blame anything on a song is a riot. what song was did that john wilkes booth listened to before he shot lincoln? what rap group were the terrorists playing when they crashed into the towers? what rap group was it again the son of sam killer liked? how about all the copy cat shootings that happened in the schools after that? are you going to tell me they all listened to marylin too?
    Again with my own words. Since it's entertaining to you, would it be ok to watch your neighbor killed in a driveby shooting as long as it was on tv and not live? Or would you find it entertaining live too?

    Quote Originally Posted by woof
    Unfortunately in todays world the media (music, movies,tv etc) is used to teach children more and more because many parents dont take the time to do it themselves. So as a result many kids see and hear stuff that they think is ok. Now for those of us that are teaching our kids right and wrong, this isnt as big a deal, but for those that dont it is. Eventually those kids that learn their right and wrong form the media will impact our kids and us and thats why we dont like that kind of stuff.
    How about reading what I said.


    Quote Originally Posted by hall316
    again, it's always easy to blame something else.
    And now to quote your previous statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by hall316
    music didn't push those kids over the edge. being picked on every day by bullies had more to do with it than the music
    Here you are blaming something else. Excellent use of your own theory.

    And lastly.....
    Quote Originally Posted by woof
    All that aside though Hall, what do songs like that do for you? or anyone else. What is their value to society? what good do they do? Where is the benefit?
    Why not just answer the questions?

    What benefit do songs like this offer? Right or wrong I'd like to hear your opinion. Do they make you feel good? Do they put you in a good mood? Do they make you want to go home and kiss your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend and tell em you love them? Maybe none of those things. Maybe you are responsible for your own actions but what about all those that arent? If our society isnt going to foster personal responsibility, which I agree it should, then influences that do not encourage personal responsibility should not be encouraged.

    Lastly I'd like to say I dont care what kind of music someone listens to. I just wonder why we as a society elevate people with a negative message to such places of honor. Why reward the crap? Baffles me?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
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    #75  
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were the only one could respond to and that someone was not able to post something. I don't remember quoting directing my entire post in your direction so let some of that air out of your big head you seem to have all of a sudden.

    It doesn't matter what purpose the song serves. What purpose does playing your violent video game running around killing people serve?
  16. #76  
    lol. on treo. will have to wait to get back to pc to respond to this one
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
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    #77  
    don't bother, I'm giving up this has become tiresome.
  18. #78  
    hall, go ahead pal. raise your kids on steady diets of rape, killing, irresponsibility, indifference and vice and let's see how well- adjusted YOUR kids turn out, ok, pal? let's just sit back and watch, shall we?
  19. #79  
    [QUOTE=treobk214]hall, go ahead pal. raise your kids on steady diets of rape, killing, irresponsibility, indifference and vice and let's see how well- adjusted YOUR kids turn out, ok, pal? [QUOTE]

    Kinda like the monkeys in the movie "28 Days Later"
  20. #80  
    lol. this guy's something else. I mean Its true that just because we view something violent once in a while doesn't mean we go act on it, but that's provided we have a strong family unit to bolster the needed values that make the conscience go off in the kids head saying...." this or that is a really bad or evil thing" but since a lot of music does a big " whatever" to anything representing responsibility, kids without strong family units begin to take their lessons,... from OTHER SOURCES - namely, music that expresses the angst they are going thru and encourages them to act it out. no parent guidance, no positive development. chances are high, then, professor hall, that these kids might do something a little off the mainstream, don't ya think? but geez, maybe im wayyyy off here. maybe hall thinks we should just let kids do whatever the hell they wanna do... right..? so hall, go ahead, make your kids listen and watch videos with all this stuff written in, and let's see if you can get back to your pc telling us your kids are perfect little angels! let's just sit back and watch, alright???
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