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  1.    #1  
    The latest move by PalmSource (I inadvertantly referred to them as PalmOne, and was corrected below), to abandon their Mac users, has got to be the dumbest move that Palm has ever made!

    Here they are, struggling to maintain market position and overcome the onslaught from Microsoft's PocketPC OS and devices, and yet they are going to dump the only group of loyal users who would never succumb to PocketPC's siren song.

    What could they be thinking? That Mac users were about to all dump their Palms and smartphones in favor of an iPod? Not likely. Most of us own iPods too and know the difference between an mp3 player vs a smartphone! And Apple is too smart to get into the cutthroat low-margin market of smartphones, when they can sell iPods at a premium, even to Windows users.

    And the iPod demonstrates that Mac users are frequently early adopters and trendsetters. The bean-counters at Palm must only be counting (and low-balling) their sales to Mac users, without taking into consideration how many Windows users buy products like the iPod and the Treo after first seeing these products in the hands of their friends who are Mac users. (We are after all friends aren't we?)

    I know many many Mac users for example who bought and use Treos, Tungstens etc. Why are we being slapped in the face by PalmOne at a time when we are among their loyalest supporters and advocates? How many of us have been approached by Windows friends, who are debating between a Palm PDA and a PocketPC, and who ask our opinion as to the advantages of the Palm OS over the PPC OS? Why are they throwing all of this away?

    How stupid.

    Regards,

    NateS
    Last edited by NateS; 02/16/2004 at 07:52 PM.
  2. #2  
    You have your palms mixed up. PalmOne is not abandoning Macs, PalmSource is. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple itself quickly announces Cobalt support with iSync. I wouldn't get all upset over this until you see how it plays out.
  3. #3  
    Though PalmSource for sure is abandoning Macs - probably a very financially sound decision, BTW - there was at least one post somewhere on some message board that said PalmOne was, too (something about a desktop or something).

    But...w.r.t.:

    > ...yet they are going to dump the only group of loyal users who
    > would never succumb to PocketPC's siren song...

    Who says PalmOne isn't thinking about abandoning PalmOS?

    Those sirens sing loudly...
  4. #4  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    You have your palms mixed up. PalmOne is not abandoning Macs, PalmSource is. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple itself quickly announces Cobalt support with iSync. I wouldn't get all upset over this until you see how it plays out.
    That would be great, except its not really the easiest thing to have happen. iSync is only a conduit, dependent on the Palm Hotsync Manager software to do its thing. Without the Palm Desktop software, iSync is dead in the water. Basically Apple would have to completely rewrite iSync to be a Palm hotsync and conduit manager as well as sync conduit, or to write their own hotsync and conduit manager.

    I don't see them rewriting iSync to be a Palm hotsync and conduit manager as well as its current features as Apple is focusing on iSync being a data synchronization tool for all your devices, not a manager for your Palm. Maybe they'll write their own Palm hotsync and conduit manager, but I'm skeptical of that as well.

    Its a shame that PalmSource has made this decision. I've been a Mac user since 1986 and a Palm user since the original Pilot. The other Mac users I know all own Palms as well. Even discounting the legacy Macs out there, Palm is ditching an installed base of 10 million people with current Macs. For a company that is fighting Microsoft for every piece of marketshare eliminated a market that size seems silly.

    Now I wish the Palm guys had agreed to sell out to Apple when Steve tried to buy them in '98.
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by keltorsori


    That would be great, except its not really the easiest thing to have happen. iSync is only a conduit, dependent on the Palm Hotsync Manager software to do its thing.
    So they include MissingSync. Problem solved. Don't lose sleep over this.
  6. #6  
    My brother was on the fence about buying a new Mac laptop. He is proficient in Mac and PC, but leans to PC's due to cost and software availability.

    This latest move from Palm sealed the deal - he's going Wintel............
  7. #7  
    Well, if that is all it took to seal the deal for your brother... so be it!

    There is NO correlation between a Mac being better than Windows and whether or not Palm Source supports Mac.

    There will always be third party software to enable syncing with a Mac. Therefore, it makes more sense to me to dump Palm.

    I love my Mac and I love my Treo but unless things change on Palm's end this will be my last Palm product.
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    So they include MissingSync. Problem solved. Don't lose sleep over this.
    I doubt anyone but the guys at Apple will lose any sleep over this. MissingSync is a great product, and I'm sure that it will work great with Cobalt. However, PalmSource's decision to withdraw their support, even with a viable third-party option, creates a problem with third-party developers of conduits. Working with the company that writes the OS and the conduit management makes writing a working conduit easier. I wonder if we'll see more third-party developers pull Mac support for their conduits. I doubt that Mark/Space will be responsible for developer support for conduit development for Mac. So who will that task fall upon?

    Anyway, again, I'm sure a solution will come about, but its still a foolish decision on PalmSource's part.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    ...Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple itself quickly announces Cobalt support with iSync. I wouldn't get all upset over this until you see how it plays out.
    Not the point, KRamsauer. And I normally agree with you It is PalmSource vs. PocketPC OS (Windows Mobile, rather) the source of headache. Regardless how Apple will (or not) solve this issue, the philosophical connotation is that PalmSource is running scared. Microsoft doesn't lose battles often, even if it takes it a decade to win. And when PalmSource turns its back on a friend, it wins a foe.
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
    -Mark Twain
  10. #10  
    I second that motion, mOOse
  11. ahalvor's Avatar
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    #11  
    well spoken moose
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by m00se

    Not the point, KRamsauer. And I normally agree with you It is PalmSource vs. PocketPC OS (Windows Mobile, rather) the source of headache. Regardless how Apple will (or not) solve this issue, the philosophical connotation is that PalmSource is running scared. Microsoft doesn't lose battles often, even if it takes it a decade to win. And when PalmSource turns its back on a friend, it wins a foe.
    I don't think they are "running scared." The fact of the matter is Mac users are a very very small portion of the population, and if there are valid solutions out there (MissingSync) why go and blow half your conduit support budget on 2% of the new PC population? It just don't make no sense from a business standpoint. Neither are they turning on a friend. You think it's coincidence that PalmSource announces no Mac Cobalt support the same week more information is leaked on a Linux-based Mac handheld? I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that PalmSource lobbed the first salvo. We will see. We will see.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    ...why go and blow half your conduit support budget on 2% of the new PC population? It just don't make no sense from a business standpoint. Neither are they turning on a friend. You think it's coincidence that PalmSource announces no Mac Cobalt support the same week more information is leaked on a Linux-based Mac handheld?
    My 2 cents in the matter:
    1. What's the best selling software for the Macintosh? Microsoft's Office! 2% of the new PC or not, obviously the not-so-gentle-giant thinks that Mac users are important enough. Tomorrow Mac users could be using
    Windows Mobile devices. Indeed, PalmSource needs to do whatever it takes to survive, even if it means cutting loose on some programs. And it has to stay competitive. But it has to cater to as many users as possible: Every customer should count.
    2. PalmOne might choose to run on Windows Mobile as well in the future.
    3. If PalmSource ain't running scared they should be. Netscape was aloof too in the hay days of the browsers’ war.
    Last edited by Schmoozer; 02/17/2004 at 09:54 AM.
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by Schmoozer

    My 2 cents in the matter:
    1. What's the best selling software for the Macintosh? Microsoft's Office! 2% of the new PC or not, obviously the not-so-gentle-giant thinks that Mac users are important enough. Tomorrow Mac users could be using
    Windows Mobile devices. Indeed, PalmSource needs to do whatever it takes to survive, even if it means cutting loose on some programs. And it has to stay competitive. But it has to cater to as many users as possible: Every customer should count.
    2. PalmOne might choose to run on Windows Mobile as well in the future.
    3. If PalmSource ain't running scared they should be. Netscape was aloof too in the hay days of the browsers’ war.
    1. Margins on MS Office are tremendous. Not so with conduit software.
    2. While technically true, highly doubtful (they would have to change their name, afterall. In choosing "PalmOne" they more or less committed to the platform.)
    3. I don't think they are running scared. If they were, they would try to outmaneuver MS, not confront them head on (which is what they are doing in concentrating on Windows PCs).
  15. #15  
    KRamsauer - I hope you are right. As you said: We will see. We will see.
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    I don't think they are "running scared." The fact of the matter is Mac users are a very very small portion of the population, and if there are valid solutions out there (MissingSync) why go and blow half your conduit support budget on 2% of the new PC population? It just don't make no sense from a business standpoint.
    Mac users may make up around 2% of the worldwide new PC population, but what percentage of Palm OS users are Mac owners? While I don't know if there are numbers out there on it, I'm willing to bet its a hell of a lot higher than 2%.

    What matters as far as Palm Source support goes isn't the percentage of total PC population on a certain platform but the percentage of Palm OS handheld users also using that platform. And as has been said before, as Palm has to fight, they have to fight for every user they can get. Abandoning what I'm willing to bet is a pretty sizable chunk of their installed base is not a good way to win new customers and keep existing ones upgrading.
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by keltorsori


    Mac users may make up around 2% of the worldwide new PC population, but what percentage of Palm OS users are Mac owners? While I don't know if there are numbers out there on it, I'm willing to bet its a hell of a lot higher than 2%.

    What matters as far as Palm Source support goes isn't the percentage of total PC population on a certain platform but the percentage of Palm OS handheld users also using that platform. And as has been said before, as Palm has to fight, they have to fight for every user they can get. Abandoning what I'm willing to bet is a pretty sizable chunk of their installed base is not a good way to win new customers and keep existing ones upgrading.
    It's not about installed user base (they are pretty much guaranteed to keep using Palms as the alternative, PocketPC won't work at all on their computers) it's about the incremental demand, which is only single digit Mac.
  18. #18  
    Just a quick question: Couldn't you still install PD via VirtualPC on a Mac? Wouldn't be pretty, but would work right?

    Anyway, I bet PalmOne will license and bundle Missing Sync in the future with Cobalt devices. Also, I wish all these companies would just adopt open standards like SyncML so all these problems wouldn't occur...
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  19. #19  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    It's not about installed user base (they are pretty much guaranteed to keep using Palms as the alternative, PocketPC won't work at all on their computers) it's about the incremental demand, which is only single digit Mac.
    It is about installed base. Installed base upgrades, installed base are the users you work to make happy so they'll buy more of your products in the future and tell your friends to buy. On top of that incremental demand of Palm OS products by Mac users has to be significantly higher than the 2% new machine figure you're using.

    If we have to pay Mark/Space for syncing Cobalt (which hey, maybe we won't, the point is that the whole thing is a bad corp. decision) than we're just as likely to look at their other product, Mark/Space The Missing Sync 1.0 for Pocket PC to complement an iPaq as Mark/Space The Missing Sync 1.0 for Cobalt.

    Then again, I'm starting to sound a little zealot like. Basically I just wish Palm Source had not done this. While I'm sure in the end all will be fine, it does send a negative message to third-party developers. If I have to I'll use my PC to sync stuff with my Treo 8100 with superGSM and WiMAX, but gawd it would be nice if they'd just change their minds. Anyway, to recap, I'm not really this crazy, just a little peeved.
    Last edited by keltorsori; 02/17/2004 at 08:05 PM.
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    The fact of the matter is Mac users are a very very small portion of the population, and if there are valid solutions out there (MissingSync) why go and blow half your conduit support budget on 2% of the new PC population? It just don't make no sense from a business standpoint.
    I have known to put my hoof in my mouth, but what the heck...
    I understand what you are saying, KRamsauer. I understands how business works, even if I don't always appreciate its cold calculations. I am not sure how much money we are talking here, but assuming it does not pay for PalmSource to fork out the money into conduit support budget for the Mac, there must be a viable solution to offer to us. Thus far PalmSource hasn't done so: I call it public relations. Often a misunderstanding on the business plato can cause alienation, frustration and hard feelings.
    Aside of that, please don't underestimate the 2% mac users, and the higher-percentage of Mac-Palm users. Microsoft does not need bother with the Mac OS, but It does so because Microsoft understands public relations: That It goes a long way. Perhaps PalmSource, as it matures, will understand that as well. We will see-we will see
    Last edited by m00se; 02/17/2004 at 08:08 PM.
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
    -Mark Twain
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