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  1. #21  
    I bought a treo 600 from Sprint and have an unneeded Treo 300 here. My loyalty rebate with handspring has been sold to a new customer who will buy their Treo 600 from Handspring instead of a carrier because of me selling my serial number to them. If that's not the spirit of the promotion that's not my problem.
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by heberman
    Am I perfect, no, and I sometimes do things I shouldn't do. But that shouldn't stop me from pointing out that making a misrepresentation to Handspring to save $$$ is just plain wrong.
    Glad to see there are still people with ethics and morals in the world. Thanks for the reminder. But we live in a world where people dont think downloading someone's art work (ie music) is stealing. or lie to stores where they have liberal return policies in order to "upgrade". I guess I dont understand the mentaility of "its owed to me". Nothing is owed, everything is earned.

    Stealing is stealing in my book. I also agree that this is not the forum to try to spread the word about your religious beliefs.

    I am too late to use my serial number with Handspring, but I damn sure am not giving it away or selling it. Heck, I already GAVE my Treo300 to someone else.
    Carl
  3. #23  
    I sold my Treo 300, for $75, to a friend - and I made very clear to the friend that I was using the serial number for the upgrade program so the serial number could not be used in the future.
  4. #24  
    Many people who are in favor of bypassing the rules here have said "I have the same right to a rebate as any other Treo owner". I disagree with this statement.

    I bought a new car recently, with low financing from the manufacturer. When a month later the manufacturer offered 0% financing, I did not suddenly have "the same right" to that rate as new car buyers. Nor did I have the right to go steal money from the car dealer or create whatever solution of my own design in order to assert "my rights" to the new discount they were offering. Doing any of those things would not be "building the market" for the company's products nor would they be my right "as an early adopter".
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by longday
    I bought a treo 600 from Sprint and have an unneeded Treo 300 here. My loyalty rebate with handspring has been sold to a new customer who will buy their Treo 600 from Handspring instead of a carrier because of me selling my serial number to them. If that's not the spirit of the promotion that's not my problem.
    Actually it is your problem. You sold a serial number to a person with the knowledge that they would use this serial number to take advantage of Handsprings offer. So you're not off the hook.

    Had you sold the physical device (with no mention of the serial number offer during the transaction), you could claim that you have no interest in what the buyer does with the device or the serial number.
  6. #26  
    Chewbacca thanks for the nice post. I'll think about that.
  7. #27  
    I was afraid you'd take my comments personally, so thanks for giving them some rational thought. I don't want to point the finger or anything, because I am certainly far from perfect. Believe me, If I had bought the t600 on tuesday (like I almost did!) I'd be sorely tempted to get some money out of my 300. Damn you, Ethics!
  8. #28  
    I bought a new car recently, with low financing from the manufacturer. When a month later the manufacturer offered 0% financing, I did not suddenly have "the same right" to that rate as new car buyers. Nor did I have the right to go steal money from the car dealer or create whatever solution of my own design in order to assert "my rights" to the new discount they were offering.
    Rather different situations. I am trying to think of an analogy and I really can't, since the situations are so different.

    Handspring says that if you enter a valid Treo 300 serial, you get the rebate. They do not say who needs to own the Treo 300. So right there, it's already okay.

    Add to that the fact that (in my case or the case of many others here) I COULD simply return my handset to Sprint (causing them problems) and order one from Handspring for the discount (which will work out the same for Handspring as if I sell the serial). In other words, nobody is hurt, and both Sprint and I are helped, if I sell the serial. Handspring comes out the same; actually, they are slightly helped, because a major vendor doesn't end up with returned merchandise.

    For the car comparison to work, it would have to be some kind of situation where by NOT conferring your right to a discount, the manufacturer and dealer would be hurt, while if you DID confer the right, they would not be hurt.
  9. #29  
    Now I used my 300 serial number to buy my 600 upgrade, so don't jump on me, but does anyone know what sprint pays for a treo 600, I'll bet its alot less than 399.00 So lets do a hypothetical here, lets say sprint pay 299 (just a guess) and you sell your serial # and handspring sells it to you for 399, Handspring is ahead of the game by 100.00. In fact the only loser is Sprint who isn't losing at all because they are already gouging us at 599 and then making even more money on plan extensions and selling us their service. I understand all the ethics stuff you guys are saying, but is anyone really getting hurt here. In 6 months the phone will be selling for 399 without activation.
  10. #30  
    I stand by what the threadstarter and i said above unto death, It is WRONG those that disagree know it deep down.

    Take care.
    1. LOVE GOD WITH ALL OUR HEART, SOUL, MIND, AND STRENGTH. 2. AND LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR AS OUR SELF. (even when it's tough, This is Perfection).
  11. #31  
    If I get a coupon in the mail from a pizza delivery restaurant because I have bought more than X pizzas in the last three months, is it wrong for me to give the coupon to a friend?

    Or, to say "I'll give you this $3 off coupon if you'll buy me a soda."

    It's the same principle, just smaller amounts of money involved.

    Guessing or illicitely using SNs is totally wrong. But the way this program is set up, there's nothing wrong with selling a valid number that you own. Particularly if it's your last option because the companies involved aren't set up to simply give you the discount without a lot of red tape and unnecessary shipping/activation.
  12. #32  
    Originally posted by wombat2
    Handspring says that if you enter a valid Treo 300 serial, you get the rebate. They do not say who needs to own the Treo 300. So right there, it's already okay.
    Here's the quote from the site:
    "If you're a Treo 180, 270 or 300 owner, we'd like to thank you for being a loyal customer by offering you a special discount on our hot new Treo 600."

    So the promotion is intended for loyal customers of Handspring. Anyone else is conciously breaking the spirit of the offer.

    Add to that the fact that (in my case or the case of many others here) I COULD simply return my handset ... <snip>
    I really think you are justifying here. If you want to use the HS deal to upgrade your phone, you have every right to do so. Retuirn your t600 to Sprint and order one from HS. You are not doing either business a favor by selling your serial number to person who will use it to dishonestly get a discount from HandSpring, so please do not present your situation as a service you are doing out of the kindess of your heart to help Sprint's and HS's bottom line.
  13. #33  
    If I willingly choose to give someone my loyalty reward from HS, I don't see any problem with that. It's like giving a gift that I'm choosing to give to someone. Handspring or Sprint are not selling this at a loss. Would it be bad for me to buy it at $399 then turn around and sell it to a friend at $399? It's the same thing without the useless step in the middle.

    On the other hand, those who are entering phoney, made up SN's they pull out of the air are definitely stealing.
  14. #34  
    As silverado points out, all this is is cutting out a middle step.

    What if I buy it at $399, use it for a month, decide I don't like it, and sell it to a friend. Would it be "immoral" for me to take my discount into consideration when setting a price for my friend?

    At the end of the day, this is the effect on each party in each situation:

    I return my handset and buy a new one to use the discount:

    me: lots of hassle, $36 activation fee, waiting for Sprint to cut me a check and for the check to clear.

    Sprint: a $599 phone gets returned, slightly used.

    Handspring: pretty much a wash, except that one of their biggest vendors ends up with returned inventory.

    If I sell my serial number:

    me: very little hassle.

    Sprint: $599 phone remains sold, no need to deal with returned inventory.

    Handspring: pretty much a wash, except that one of their biggest vendors does NOT end up with returned inventory.

    There's no justification going on. The simple fact is that there is no harm, and in fact, all three parties come out better. And, I get "rewarded" for being a loyal Handspring customer - I just pass on some of my "reward" to someone else for making my transaction easier.

    If you feel otherwise, do what your conscience requires. I actually doubt that I'll sell my serial, but simply due to market prices - it's not worth it to me to sell it for less than $100, and the going rate seems to be $50.
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by silverado
    Would it be bad for me to buy it at $399 then turn around and sell it to a friend at $399? It's the same thing without the useless step in the middle.
    silverado, I was going to say the exact same thing. It's funny, I guess, as a Christian I don't see anything wrong with selling my serial number or using the serial number myself and then selling my old Treo so long as I inform the person that I'm selling the old Treo to that I've "used" the serial number for the upgrade offer and they won't be able to.

    It's quite simple. If Handspring was concerned about this, their offer would require that you mail them in your old Treo. I'm sure they could use them for parts if they wanted to. But they didn't. What do you think they expect people who take advantage of this offer to do with their old Treo? Throw it in the garbage? Of course not, they probably expect that you'll turn around and sell it to someone else.

    As most others seem to have agreed on, I do feel that it's wrong to write down a serial number in the store and use it (or any variation on that theme). Further, I'll add to the chorus of those who say that Handspring would like nothing better than for every single current Treo owner to buy a Treo 600 with this offer. Rest assured, they're not losing money by selling it at $399. If they are, they may as well exit the business right now because I can go and get a Nokia 3650 for free after rebates which gut-wise is pretty comparable and Nokia sure ain't losing money on that deal either.

    If your conscious tells you otherwise, do as you see fit. But be careful about condemning others over debatable matters.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by wombat2


    Add to that the fact that (in my case or the case of many others here) I COULD simply return my handset to Sprint (causing them problems) and order one from Handspring for the discount (which will work out the same for Handspring as if I sell the serial). In other words, nobody is hurt, and both Sprint and I are helped, if I sell the serial. Handspring comes out the same; actually, they are slightly helped, because a major vendor doesn't end up with returned merchandise.
    Point is, you dont want to have to do that, cause that would not be convienent for you. I bought mine on Tuesday... had to have it first.... now I am not going to complain that I could not wait. It is my problem, not Sprints and not Handsprings.
    Carl
  17. #37  
    Why doesn't someone email HS and see what they have to say about people selling their serial number. We can all justfiy doing what we want to do with pretzel logic, but in the end right is right and wrong is wrong.

    What if you owned a business and sold widgets. And you send out a coupon to your loyal customers who have bought widgets from you in the past. And one of your customers decides he does not like your widgets anymore, but he has a friend who would like to buy your widget, but has never done so in the past. How would YOU feel if your customer gave the guy down the street his coupon?

    No one is hurt? Right?

    Think about it guys. Nothing is free, there is a price for everything. Someone is paying for that discount.
    Carl
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by CarlGalgano
    What if you owned a business and sold widgets. And you send out a coupon to your loyal customers who have bought widgets from you in the past. And one of your customers decides he does not like your widgets anymore, but he has a friend who would like to buy your widget, but has never done so in the past. How would YOU feel if your customer gave the guy down the street his coupon?
    Are you serious? I'd feel great. So I have one unhappy customer that's never going to buy from me again anyway, but I've got a new potential customer that will. Actually, this is a very good analogy which, I think, demonstrates why everybody wins here.

    And yes, I'm being completely serious.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  19. #39  
    What if you owned a business and sold widgets. And you send out a coupon to your loyal customers who have bought widgets from you in the past. And one of your customers decides he does not like your widgets anymore, but he has a friend who would like to buy your widget, but has never done so in the past. How would YOU feel if your customer gave the guy down the street his coupon?

    No one is hurt? Right?
    Actually, that is correct. No one is hurt. If I think it's worth sending the coupon to one customer (who I have since lost), I'd rather have the coupon used by another - new - customer, than not to be used at all. However, the situation that I keep repeatedl saying is - the coupon WILL BE USED (at least in my case). It's just a question of how it's used. Do I used it in such a way that Sprint ends up with returned merchandise, or do I use it in such a way that no phone is returned, and the same number of total sales are made for the same overall dollar amount? There is simply no harm whatsoever. And again, I doubt I'll do this, but 100% due to economics. It's worth $50 or maybe $100 for me not to have to deal with the hassle. It's not worth $150, and going rate indicates it would cost me $150 to avoid the hassle.

    What if I sold the whole Treo 300, serial and all, for $60, they used the discount, and then I bought it back (minus the serial) for $10? Or to take it further, what if I sell the Treo 300 for $60, pass on the serial immediately and plan to ship later, but with a buy-back option for $10 that I can exercise at any time, and then I exercise the buy-back as soon as they use the serial? Or, I sell it for $60 with $50 down and the remaining balance to be paid later, but with the right to cancel the sale, pass on the serial immediately, and then cancel the sale and keep the Treo? Ridiculous examples, but the point is, the moral issue some people in this thread are seeing is the ethical equivalent of semantics. As Handspring has structured the deal, the serial number is a commodity and I own it.

    For the person who said I'm doing it to benefit myself instead of Sprint - duh. Yes, I'm doing it (or, at least considering doing it) to benefit myself. However, I wouldn't do it if it HURT Sprint and/or Handspring. In fact, it helps all three parties. Or would, if I could get my asking price. .
    Last edited by wombat2; 10/09/2003 at 04:10 PM.
  20. #40  
    haven't you guys had a friend who worked in a clothes store use their discount to buy you clothes? this is the same thing.

    the bottom line is that if handspring can afford to give people with treo 300 a discount, then they can afford to give everybody a discount. (in theory; accountingwise, this may be incorrect).

    p.s. i also know that if EVERYONE on this message board had a friend who worked for sprintpcs or t-mobile that could get you a discount, you would take it.
    Usual Suspects Entertainment
    We make the crowd move.
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